PC Problems with A17.2 that aren't on the 'known issues' list of the patch notes

To be 100% honest I'm not bothered particularly about XP for trap kills, it just seemed like a needless omission to me with the current XP system being what it is.

I don't see why adding an 'owner' variable to all blocks (instead of just LCB, Doors, Beds, Crates and workshops) would make any difference at all; for the person who PLACED the trap, obviously.

A trap is just a block like any other and the game already has to remember heaps of information about all of them or else how does it remember where they are, their health and content? Otherwise every block would load up in its default state and no damage or destruction to anything in the world would be remembered once it stops being rendered. Clearly this is not the case because the game is capable of remembering the exact details of every block in the game already, the contents of crates and boxes. Heck, I even come across dead vultures I killed days ago because they contain loot and the game remembers them; apparently forever.

Make XP awarded ONLY for zombie kills and you are good as far as I can see.

If you can think of reasons why this would not work I'd like to hear them; 'a can of worms' is rather vague.

I'm completely open to the opposing argument and if you have a good one (as a game designer myself) I can consider that perspective in future to help me make better choices.

@RestInPieces your reply seems to indicate that you are an authority on what is or is not worth considering. I'm not entirely sure that is true.

Also thanks @ hotpoon

 
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The motion sickness is real. Not for me, but the person I play with absolutely loves the game and can't stand over an hour. Minibike is out of the question for her now.

Opinions and 'known issues' different things. A bit misleading.

 
@ Z-Pooh-Bear

If you press the fire button while riding you can change between two types of camera.

One stays behind the bike and is the basis for vehicle rotation, the other is a free camera you must position yourself, while rotation of the vehicle is controlled by strafe.

Could this help?

Also, I play with three 1920*1080 screens and the FOV is excellent.

I wouldn't be surprised if the FOV was removed when AMD Eyefinity / NVIDIA 3D Surround Technology capability was added although that seems like corner-cutting to me: 'use Eyefinity or tough luck' ..?

 
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To be 100% honest I'm not bothered particularly about XP for trap kills, it just seemed like a needless omission to me with the current XP system being what it is.
I don't see why adding an 'owner' variable to all blocks (instead of just LCB, Doors, Beds, Crates and workshops) would make any difference at all; for the person who PLACED the trap, obviously.
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So, I run over to your base, and, while you're offline, remove all your traps and replace them with identical ones of my own. Now, I'm getting all "your" passive trap XP.......

 
So, I run over to your base, and, while you're offline, remove all your traps and replace them with identical ones of my own. Now, I'm getting all "your" passive trap XP.......
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Ok I mainly play SP and I've only played on 1 MP server for a short time (cheaters/hackers ruined that server). Wouldn't his LCB prevent this? You'd have to destroy his LCB first before you could place anything. Also, in theory you could do this but why would you?

1. Assuming trap xp range is limited (which 100% I guarantee it would be if they implement this feature) you'd have to be within range of the traps in HIS territory. Again, destroying his LCB most likely will require A LOT of effort.

a. If he's online and you're near his base, he'd probably KOS.

b. If he's offline you're being very unproductive by using his traps (yours now) just to kill a few zombies and get some exp.

2. People usually raid bases for loot or to wipe out an enemy. Why would you spent time doing this when you could get away with high end loot? You'd have to destroy his LCB to place your traps but by that time, the base is no longer his and he'll probably abandon it after finding out.

3. Traps are usually there for horde night. On horde night why would you be at his place? Moreover the zombies would be hunting you as well. Possibility of 1a occurring as well.

If the owner tag is added to all blocks you'd have to destroy and replace all his wires/converters/power sources/traps and create/replace them with your own. It'll be the as same placing your own traps but you have the tedious task of destroying someone else blocks but with X times durability.

What I'm getting at is while it is doable you'll spend too much time and effort just to 'steal' someone else trap XP.

 
If they were going to give XP for traps (not that I think they should), the only sensible way to do it is to give XP to the person whose LCB the trap is in (and the rest of their party through the usual sharing mechanism).

If the trap isn't in an LCB area, then it doesn't give anyone XP.

 
Why would giving xp for traps EVER be a thing? Dear lord, isn't it bad enough that I can mine one night and get 10 levels ahead of my group?

You get xp if you're experiencing the kill. Traps are there to kill things FOR you.

 
@RestInPieces your reply seems to indicate that you are an authority on what is or is not worth considering. I'm not entirely sure that is true.
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Why would it indicate such a thing?

As for the lack of explanation, I usually back up my claims, but in this case this is something that comes with so many glaring problems that make it irredeemable.

People already see zombies as xp orbs, it would do wonders for the game to give players a way to farm them with minimal-zero maintenance afk zombie-luring xp farms.

 
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If they were going to give XP for traps (not that I think they should), the only sensible way to do it is to give XP to the person whose LCB the trap is in (and the rest of their party through the usual sharing mechanism).
If the trap isn't in an LCB area, then it doesn't give anyone XP.
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I think that traps should be owner specific and not LCB specific. Otherwise it'd be too easy to switch ownership. Destroy someone's LCB, place down your LCB and now all their (remaining) traps belong to you? Shouldn't make it 'easy' for raiders.

 
Why would giving xp for traps EVER be a thing? Dear lord, isn't it bad enough that I can mine one night and get 10 levels ahead of my group?
You get xp if you're experiencing the kill. Traps are there to kill things FOR you.
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A pickaxe is a tool to help you mine faster. A shotgun is also considered a tool help you kill zombies faster. Both give xp. Otherwise you'd be punching the ground to mine or punching the zombie to do damage. I also consider traps tools because they also help you kill zombies faster.

Therefore I think traps should also give XP, albeit very little compared to zombies you kill yourself. Obviously trap XP should only apply to traps that require electricity such as the turrets, blades, electric fences, etc when they make the kill.

Right now at end game, I believe that mining with an auger gives the fastest xp. All you have to do is click, aim and hold the mouse button. Every once in a while repair, refuel and repeat. You can level very fast this way even when you're high level. People who don't like mining/building but like killing zombies have a huge disadvantage because the number of zombies you have to kill to reach the next high level is absurdly high. Giving trap XP will help this group.

 
You can level very fast this way even when you're high level. People who don't like mining/building but like killing zombies have a huge disadvantage because the number of zombies you have to kill to reach the next high level is absurdly high. Giving trap XP will help this group.
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They should never have made xp work by block damage in the first place. Only thing they managed by doing this is to push the players to use different ways to level depending on their progress.

 
I think the main point of this debate is the difference of source of XP now and in A16.

In A16 you "trained" particular skills and received XP towards them (mining, pistol shooting, shotgun shooting, some crafting, using tools, etc.) and overall level was the sum of all the gathered perk XP. Killing a Zombie didn't give XP, only the process of hitting it a number of times, which came from using a specific weapon. This way any killing you performed (strictly speaking) didn't give XP, no matter whether it was through a weapon, a trap or a mine.

In A17 you get XP for performing actions AND when you kill a Zombie. It doesn't matter with which weapon or tool you do it (you could even use fists), the count if for hitting last (in MP the XP is distributed if applicable). This is applied to directly hurting a Z with a weapon or tool, which could be a way of grieving (if you ever saw Z HP) to swoop in and make the final hit when someone kills zombies, if it weren't for the small amount of XP received compared to how much you need per level on higher ones.

A17 system is new on itself and adding a whole new (smaller one) to give XP from any Z dying from traps in a specific range would be an additional feature, not strictly extension of the existing one.

I personally don't mind the idea, as I mostly play SP.

 
In A16 you "trained" particular skills and received XP towards them (mining, pistol shooting, shotgun shooting, some crafting, using tools, etc.) and overall level was the sum of all the gathered perk XP. Killing a Zombie didn't give XP, only the process of hitting it a number of times, which came from using a specific weapon. This way any killing you performed (strictly speaking) didn't give XP, no matter whether it was through a weapon, a trap or a mine.
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From what I remember, kill exp was introduced during the old system (first rpg elements iteration) then taken out, then re-introduced, then nerfed (a little). It's just that A17 made it more obvious because of universal xp being the only way to improve anything. It was a bad idea imo all along.

 
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I think that traps should be owner specific and not LCB specific. Otherwise it'd be too easy to switch ownership. Destroy someone's LCB, place down your LCB and now all their (remaining) traps belong to you? Shouldn't make it 'easy' for raiders.
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I think making traps specific to a LCB (any outside its sphere do not give XP) and have trap owner settable only once would be the best way (replacing the LCB is not enough). In essence the only way for another player to interfere would be to replace the LCB AND all of the traps in its radius. I don't know about you but I don't think this is a good use of time for any player. A persistent (but small) HUD indicator that tells the player they have no LCB active would also alert them when they come online.

I see now why 'can of worms' was so appropriate. I'm sure even my suggestion here would not be acceptable to some people.

 
I really also don't like the new A17 system honestly.

However, I'm not sure why nobody has suggested a more categorical LBD system, based upon the attributes. Doing skills associated with those attributes, levels that attribute. (I.e, mining or using blunt weapons levels strength)

Then, those attribute points can be distributed to any skill under that attribute, but ONLY under that attribute. Agility points can be put toward athletics for instance, or strength points gained through mining can be put into blunt weapons.

You could even have more narrow categories like "Ranged Weapons" and "Laboring" and "Athleticism". Using crossbows, shotguns, rifles, SMGs, bows, ANYTHING, will give you points in the Ranged Weapons category, which can be put toward any skill within the category, whether it be shotguns or crossbows or bows. The Laboring class could be given to anything to do with mining and construction. Armors could be lumped into their own spot, or maybe put in with "Melee Combat".

There's plenty of room to improve the LBD system in a way that pleases both parties from what I've been reading in this thread, you just have to think about it.

As for wellness, I honestly really miss it. It added a reason to keep your character alive other than just score. Even though it could be extremely frustrating, it could also be extremely rewarding, and I really enjoyed it.

 
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However, I'm not sure why nobody has suggested a more categorical LBD system, based upon the attributes.

.....

As for wellness, I honestly really miss it. It added a reason to keep your character alive other than just score. Even though it could be extremely frustrating, it could also be extremely rewarding, and I really enjoyed it.
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Has been suggested.

As for wellness, the concept was great, but the implementation was terrible. Death was just used as a debuff/status reset or teleport in A16 with little to no cost. Considering this is also a survival game, it made things pretty awkward.

 
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Posted again to keep it visible.

>Snipping it to save space. It's still there at the front of the thread, people can find it there if they like - OzHawkeye<

 
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"Learn by doing" vs "Leveling through attribute tree"

I am new to the game as of A17 so I did not experience it when skill ups through activity was a thing, however I am older (45) and have played many games in the past that had that kind of progression such as Ultima Online. the comment that it is a grind is 100% true and one of the reasons you really don't see a lot of games with a "Learn by Doing" system anymore. World of Warcraft had it with crafting, but I don't think anyone that played WoW would say that the crafting skill up grind was "fun". Dunno. it certainly is subjective what is fun, but I see the current Attribute/Level based system in most games now. its just the way things are moving.

Now my personal opinion is that the current system is fine. I like it. I think new players will probably like it. Old players used to a certain way of playing will take time to adapt or will move on. if you have played this game more than say 30+ hours, then you got your money's worth of entertainment anyway.

 
"Learn by doing" vs "Leveling through attribute tree"
I am new to the game as of A17 so I did not experience it when skill ups through activity was a thing, however I am older (45) and have played many games in the past that had that kind of progression such as Ultima Online. the comment that it is a grind is 100% true and one of the reasons you really don't see a lot of games with a "Learn by Doing" system anymore. World of Warcraft had it with crafting, but I don't think anyone that played WoW would say that the crafting skill up grind was "fun". Dunno. it certainly is subjective what is fun, but I see the current Attribute/Level based system in most games now. its just the way things are moving.

Now my personal opinion is that the current system is fine. I like it. I think new players will probably like it. Old players used to a certain way of playing will take time to adapt or will move on. if you have played this game more than say 30+ hours, then you got your money's worth of entertainment anyway.
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Man, did you really compare the LBD grind to the "LBD" grind of WoW? lol

That is not a fair comparison in the slightest. WoW is an MMO and those kind of grinds were absolutely brutal, no argument, but LBD in A16 was in no way comparable at all.

Though what makes even WoW pale in comparison was the crafting grind in vanilla FFXI. You can literally count on the fingers of your hand how many people managed to get max level Goldsmithing in FFXI, for example. I think when I played, maybe one American on the whole server out of millions of people had it max level? I am not joking, exaggerating, or anything. ONE. Literally if you had max goldsmithing skill (at least back then), you were a god, you could max out your money (99,999,999) quite easily. You were the Bill Gates of the MMO world. No one was even close to your level. Many got so rich that they had to make several banker characters to hold 99,999,999 so they literally had nearly as much money as Bill Gates himself, possibly billions lol.

let that sink in before kids these days complain about what is TRULY an awful grind. There is grind, there is GRIND, and then there is OMG I want to kill myself GRIND, and then there is the I want to gauge my eyeballs out with a dull spoon before killing myself grind...... A16 was merely a bit of "grind" that's it. You are actually older than me so I should hope you would appreciate this :p

 
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