PC Primary/secondary attack changes and harvesting...

[PoppaTot]

Because the other option was to create endgame content. Once having a secure base, players got bored and asked for more content.Slowing early progression (at least the gathering/building part), and making our bases less secure, is easier than creating new content.

Seems to have backfired, atleast in my case. The nerf on building made the game faster for me. I forgo building a home base now and just secure existing POIs early game. Then, I start building a horde base. The reason I say that it backfired and is faster is because TFP made me "adapt" and now I just kill zombies to get what I need. I forget about mining or building until I'm power-leveled to unlock items that are necessities for building a good horde base and to top it off... the AI is wayyyyyy easier to fool, you can literally make a horde go slower than walking with barbed wire and put them in loop.....

TLDR levels are faster, mining really isn't needed, building is less fun because the new AI pathing is easily cheesed... Trying to slow the game down in the beginning actually made the game shorter and easier (in my opinion) and lessened the replay value with removing the RNG

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Why anybody even tries to make a base before lvl 20 is beyond me. If you woke up naked in the forest and realized everyone was a zombie, would you tie a rock to a stick and try to build a house? there is other options besides that when u first start out. Like making due until you get a hold of the tools you need to build something.
When I hit level 20 I made some tools and went and mined. With perks I was 5 shotting rock and getting 12k rocks in a night and getting 2k rocks before I had to rest. (for about 5 seconds) Maybe you guys should test it out before passing judgement.

I love the realism argument lol. If I were in this scenario I would wonder why after killing X amount of zombies an audible alert played and then all the sudden I could do things I couldn't 5 seconds ago lmao

 

[Maynard69]

When you become OP in A17, it is even more fluffy bunny than A16.4 ever was (2-3 shotting Irradiated cops) and this occurs MUCH earlier than it ever did in A16.4. I guess you just haven't got that far in A17.
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Looting no longer necessary, once you hit level 100-ish.

a) and? OP vs every threat that is planned to be added to game in the future (like bandits and whatever else) How would u know? Games not done yet

So you are past level 100 in the current build? or just still whining about the last experiment?

b) Is all loot already in the game that ever will be? You dont think they plan to add any other stuff we might want to loot late game? Like mods, legendary weapons ect., mats for who knows what.

Every complaint about everything (and i mean everything since you complain about every possible thing) ive seen on these forum from you has the tone of someone who doesnt understand the difference between a complete game and WIP.

 

[WolfyBlah]

Of course, since you were quoting the previous x3 modifier that required level 100.
I doubt anyone can keep a straight face and say that being able to exclusively spam "power attacks" was good gameplay.

It's experimental. Mistakes were made and corrected.

Yes, a power attack with a sledgehammer can do over 600 damage.

Il take that challange. Melee in A17 is as pathetic as ever and adding a slower attack really did nothig but pad out the perks.

Id honestly be way more intrested in a blocking mechanic than a slightly slower more powerful attack.

Want to see a modern melee system that works amazingly well? Go check out KillingFloor2.

It has light and heavy attacks (L/R mouse) that is directional based on your movement (moving forward will do an overhead attack, strafing right will swing the weapon horizontally) as well as a bash or stab attack (weapon dependant, bound to 'V', with a gun equipped this wil bash with the weapon butt) and ontop of that blocking (hold mmb) and parrying (perfectly timed block).

Id like to see zombies be way more reactive to melee, those 'pain' animations are pretty dreadful though (both from an immersion standpoint and gameplay wise).

By reacting to melee i dont mean clutching thier side and going for an oscar or playig the falldown-getup game (honestly not sure why TFP did this, have MORE trouble telling is somthig is actually dead in this alpha than in a16).

I mean i want them to react physically like they have been hit by somthig, both with proper impact reaction (hit somthing in the side of the head with sledghammer? Ragdoll) and based on damage (hit somthings leg a lot and it starts limping)

 

[Maynard69]

I love the realism argument lol. If I were in this scenario I would wonder why after killing X amount of zombies an audible alert played and then all the sudden I could do things I couldn't 5 seconds ago lmao

Its not realism. Its literally how you begin the game. And my first thought is never, I need to build something with this stone axe.

 

[cricket504]

Just watched G4K's latest vid and he looked at the difference between right and left click attacks and mining/digging/chopping. I was critical of the nerf that harvesting had taken and now it appears like that was addressed. I do feel for the players getting the nerf on power attacks. I'm more a ranged weapon person, but plenty of friends love the sledge hammer or axe. Hopefully by A17S, TFP's will have the balance fine tuned, though I do feel for TFP's as no matter what, someone will not be happy with balance.

 

[PoppaTot]

Its not realism. Its literally how you begin the game. And my first thought is never, I need to build something with this stone axe.

You still asked the question about if it was you, that is realism regardless if that is how the game starts lol. Nor should your fist thought be the need to build something with a stone axe... may it should be how, how do I replace these primitive stone tools to better prepare myself for this apocalypse I find myself in.

 

[Maynard69]

You still asked the question about if it was you, that is realism regardless if that is how the game starts lol. Nor should your fist thought be the need to build something with a stone axe... may it should be how, how do I replace these primitive stone tools to better prepare myself for this apocalypse I find myself in.

I mean, if we go by your train of thought here, we are way off base. Technically, your first thought should be "What are these weird gauges in the air following me around and why do I have a HP bar?"

I understand you dont like the skill-progression and want throw it pot-shots at it. Thats cool, but its off subject and not relevant tho, tbh.

 

[PoppaTot]

I mean, if we go by your train of thought here, we are way off base. Technically, your first thought should be "What are these weird gauges in the air following me around and why do I have a HP bar?"

I understand you dont like the skill-progression and want throw it pot-shots at it. Thats cool, but its off subject and not relevant tho, tbh.

That's not my thought process, that is the thought process behind the realism argument. And it's not off your topic when you try throw realism in the discussion. You clearly understand that by throwing "pot-shots" at my statements that show how irrelevant it is to toss realism in in the first place. That leaves only one reasonable outcome; you use the realism argument when it suits you and dismiss it when it doesn't.

 

[Maynard69]

Seems to have backfired, atleast in my case. The nerf on building made the game faster for me. I forgo building a home base now and just secure existing POIs early game. Then, I start building a horde base. The reason I say that it backfired and is faster is because TFP made me "adapt" and now I just kill zombies to get what I need. I forget about mining or building until I'm power-leveled to unlock items that are necessities for building a good horde base and to top it off... the AI is wayyyyyy easier to fool, you can literally make a horde go slower than walking with barbed wire and put them in loop.....
TLDR levels are faster, mining really isn't needed, building is less fun because the new AI pathing is easily cheesed... Trying to slow the game down in the beginning actually made the game shorter and easier (in my opinion) and lessened the replay value with removing the RNG

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I honestly dont like killing Z's being the main focus for the player to level optimally either, and dont think its as fun to feel like you have to in order to get going in the game. Killing zombies is definitely not the the highlight or best feature of the game. Mining building and creating stuff should net you equal xp to hunting zombies imo. In a16 it was the opposite. You could level faster than anyone just mining with an auger.

If it was equal on both sides it would lessen the blow of having to do 1 activity to skill level another. It would make the current perk system a little easier to swallow I think because you could just build or whatever and still feel like you are progressing. Your activities building would net you skills in building if you want.

Idk, Im still holding out, believing they are going to make this current system better than what we had by the time they are done with it. They got a master-plan somewhere that is going to do the trick. The old system was pretty damn good tho, it had some great features that made the game amazingly replayable, that I guess probably was one the best highlights of the game. Hopefully they can capture that again under the current system somehow, because there is good parts here too, they just arent being showcased rn.

The AI was way more easily cheesed in a16. (Just dig 5 blocks down) That didnt mean you had to play that way. Same applies to this version

 

[PoppaTot]

I honestly dont like killing Z's being the main focus for the player to level optimally either, and dont think its as fun to feel like you have to in order to get going in the game. Killing zombies is definitely not the the highlight or best feature of the game. Mining building and creating stuff should net you equal xp to hunting zombies imo. In a16 it was the opposite. You could level faster than anyone just mining with an auger.

If it was equal on both sides it would lessen the blow of having to do 1 activity to skill level another. It would make the current perk system a little easier to swallow I think because you could just build or whatever and still feel like you are progressing. Your activities building would net you skills in building if you want.

Idk, Im still holding out, believing they are going to make this current system better than what we had by the time they are done with it. They got a master-plan somewhere that is going to do the trick. The old system was pretty damn good tho, it had some great features that made the game amazingly replayable, that I guess probably was one the best highlights of the game. Hopefully they can capture that again under the current system somehow, because there is good parts here too, they just arent being showcased rn.

The AI was way more easily cheesed in a16. (Just dig 5 blocks down) That didnt mean you had to play that way. Same applies to this version

I agree with you on the whole post.

 

[Maynard69]

That's not my thought process, that is the thought process behind the realism argument. And it's not off your topic when you try throw realism in the discussion. You clearly understand that by throwing "pot-shots" at my statements that show how irrelevant it is to toss realism in in the first place. That leaves only one reasonable outcome; you use the realism argument when it suits you and dismiss it when it doesn't.

No, my "realism" is just pointing out a logical path you would take in-game and irl. It does not infer that I believe everything in a video game equals real life or that I think it should. You bringing up the fact that you think the skill progression isnt realistic (in a somewhat amusing manner) still has no bearing on the point I made or the subject we are discussing.

 

[PoppaTot]

No, my "realism" is just pointing out a logical path you would take in-game and irl. It does not infer that I believe everything in a video game equals real life or that I think it should. You bringing up the fact that you think the skill progression isnt realistic (in a somewhat amusing manner) still has no bearing on the point I made or the subject we are discussing.

I respectfully disagree with you, if we are going for realism, then it should be all or nothing.

 

[Jedo]

I respectfully disagree with you, if we are going for realism, then it should be all or nothing.

So there should be zero realism? Everything should be "gamey" or "arcadey"?

 

[PoppaTot]

So there should be zero realism? Everything should be "gamey" or "arcadey"?

Please try to bait and troll someone else. Have a good day.

 

[Jedo]

Please try to bait and troll someone else. Have a good day.

Not baiting or trolling. Your logic today has been atrocious.

 

[PoppaTot]

Not baiting or trolling. Your logic today has been atrocious.

You understand the logic and try to use it as a way to bait people into arguments. I see it in every post you do. That's why I choose not to engage you, you provide nothing of substance or point of view. Everything is a pissing match to you, we get it, you're intelligent. That's obviously the reason for your posts, to prove you're smarter than everyone. So I will just bow out now, give you what you want, and move on. Have a good day.

EDIT: missed a word

 

[Jedo]

You understand the logic and try to use it as a way to bait people into arguments. I see it in every post you do. That's why I choose not to engage you, you provide nothing of substance or point of view. Everything is a pissing match to you, we get it, you're intelligent. That's obviously the reason for your posts, to prove you're smarter than everyone. So I will just bow out now, give you what you want, and move on. Have a good day.
EDIT: missed a word

I don't think that I'm more intelligent than most of the people on here. I think that people are willing to resort to logical arguments which seem to make sense in order to make their position appear stronger. I could counter the arguments, or I could expose the holes in them. I have done both at different times.

My point here is that we don't want "all realism" or "no realism"; we just draw the line in different places. If you won't admit that, I don't think it's because you are less intelligent; I think it is because you are stubborn. Thus, the only way to jolt you out is to highlight the absurdity (and sometimes, even that doesn't work).

Carry on.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

Sorry but there's no way it takes the same amount of time to gather the resources in 17, using stone tools, than 16, having iron tools on day 1.

In A16 I spent the first 3-4 days looting and doing light resource gathering. I then spent 2-3 days base building and doing heavy resource gathering. I always aimed to be done by the morning of the 7th day and spent that day looting. I always left resource harvesting for later because It was more efficient that way (sex t-Rex/miner 69 etc). In my most recent playthrough, I just did the exact same thing. I spent the first 3 days looting and spent days 4-6 resource gathering and base building (with some looting thrown in). I had iron tools by day 3 and a steel shovel by day 5. Also in my most recent playthrough I never bothered taking over a POI. I built a temp base on day 1. Gathering the wood for that base was grindy but no more grindy than A16 day 1.

In terms of the first week I see no real difference between A16 and A17. You just have to adjust your priorities. Instead of focusing on crafting a forge a grinding iron, you focus on looting tools and weapons. By day 7 you end up in the same place.

 

[Deceptive Pastry]

In b208, I needed a few ranks of the head damage perk, a sizable strength bonus, and a few mods in a sledgehammer to kill a regular Male zombie in 1 headshot on nomad. In b221, I used a 1- mod sledge with 4 strength and NO supporting mods to do the same thing. Sounds like a damage increase, not a reduction.It most certainly requires a new mindset, but power attack is most certainly still usable.

Before:

Wood & Iron Club: 15 dmg

Power attack x2.3 base: 34.5 dmg

Sledgehammer: 23 dmg

Power attack x2.7 base: 62.1 dmg

Headshot dmg x1.5 base

Now:

Wood club: 16 dmg

Power attack 2x base: 32 dmg

Iron club: 21

Power attack 2x base: 42

Sledgehammer: 42

Power attack 2x base: 84

Headshot dmg x2 base

Mainly the sledgehammer in general got a dmg buff, Iron club actually does more dmg than wood now, headshot dmg got an all-around buff, but power attacks as a ratio of damage per stamina got nerfed plus the stam freeze outside of perks+stunned enemies.

I’ve gotten a couple of one hit kills with a club and so they are definitely more powerful when you get the right roll.

Well damage isn't really a random roll thing...The only way you would get one shot kills at random is due to the dismember chance from Boom Headshot, Skull Crusher, or Deep Cuts + power attacks, which none of these dismember values were changed from what I've seen. They are stronger in general, but a power attack headshot from iron club is doing 84 damage base, the avg zombie has 150 hp with many of the females having 125. It'll take plenty of points of strength and other perks before you should be getting one hit kills.

 

[PoppaTot]

I don't think that I'm more intelligent than most of the people on here. I think that people are willing to resort to logical arguments which seem to make sense in order to make their position appear stronger. I could counter the arguments, or I could expose the holes in them. I have done both at different times.
My point here is that we don't want "all realism" or "no realism"; we just draw the line in different places. If you won't admit that, I don't think it's because you are less intelligent; I think it is because you are stubborn. Thus, the only way to jolt you out is to highlight the absurdity (and sometimes, even that doesn't work).

Carry on.

And my point was that we shouldn't base our discords on "realism" because those of us that do only do it when it is to our benefit and then dismiss it when it's not (I am also guilty of this). But somehow, I think you already knew that and were just trying to provoke another pointless internet fight.