PC Primary/secondary attack changes and harvesting...

[meganoth]

Well damage isn't really a random roll thing...The only way you would get one shot kills at random is due to the dismember chance from Boom Headshot,

Maybe the random he is experiencing is the random zombie before him. They have different HPs, so some of them may be one-shotted, some not.

 

[Deceptive Pastry]

I did mention that... avg zombies have 150, the smaller females have 125. Even at 125 you still need a handful of perks to get that one shot, though less than you would need before. The only zombie that has less health than that and could be consistently one-shotted at level 1 are screamers with 75 hp.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

I did mention that... avg zombies have 150, the smaller females have 125. Even at 125 you still need a handful of perks to get that one shot, though less than you would need before. The only zombie that has less health than that and could be consistently one-shotted at level 1 are screamers with 75 hp.

Maybe they were damaged before they got to me. While looting I have one shot a couple of the weaker zombies during my first week with what look like lucky damage rolls. I haven’t been able to consistently one shot certain types of zombies. I generally keep track of how many hits and what type of hits different zombies take so I can manage my stamina.

 

[Jugginator]

Well, people are cherry-picking their arguments. Can't blame them for trying.
If you want to effectively use a heavy weapon like a sledgehammer at level 1 you will struggle. Go figure.

If you want to be good at melee with {insert weapon} you will want the perks that support that.

If you are into melee with a hammer "at the level at which you can craft it" (which is an arbitrary number and has nothing to do with using one...) you would have 130 stamina and the PA costs you 63.

I think people aren't adding any points in melee perks and assuming they don't work lol. I went full melee this build, and yes stamina drains fast, but once you perk in it's sooooo worth it. I've been using a sledge hammer I found on Warrior and destroying ♥♥♥♥. And no youi cant tap right click 100's times a second, you combo it. Right click, whack the daylights out of the zombie, knocking them back and down, left click to finish them off. Once you add more perks, you can right click attack a few times. Hell, I'm one-shotting most power attacks too.

Mining? Really good actually once you perk up. I can right click attack a node 1 time, 2 normal and it busts down. 1 -2 -1 -2 -1 -2 and I've cleared a field of nodes. Left clicking I regen stamina while using it.

Use the perks before assuming "OMG yo ucant do ♥♥♥♥ now!", because indeed the perks to make the difference.

About to check out the 'whirlwind' effect now in heavy weapons

 

[Sharky36]

Do as you wish, of course, but having a recovery moment makes the move more risky and something that must be considered rather than an automatic press if you have the stamina. Just because you have the stamina to pull it off do you also have the space and time available for the recovery IF the zombie doesn't go down or if you miss or if there are multiple enemies close by? It makes the choice more interesting.
I get that people want to immediately mod out any and all aspects that seem like non-fun nerfing and more power to you but in case you were wondering why TFP would put something into the game like that...here you go. There are many people who like to make choices that have consequences and those consequences are ALL benefits. It's not that we enjoy suffering the consequences so much as it is knowing those consequences are there make the decisions that could potentially result in those consequences more interesting and (when we triumph) more satisfying.

Without the recovery pause: Always press the power attack any time you have the stamina available to do it

With the recovery pause: Not every situation will be best for the power attack and using it without thinking about it could land you in trouble

I completely understand the power attack when your talking about melee Roland, but I have to say I'm not looking forward to mining if I have to left click through everything all the time. Now I have not gotten leveled up since the patch because we started over for testing purposes. I've been playing this game a very very long time and I really hope mining isn't going to be ridiculous trying to get resources with a pickaxe in a mine. It was already taking along time when I could basically hold down the right clicker for mining but left clicking through it will just be enough to piss me off if it hasn't been balanced well. It might be time to seperate mining melee if its as bad is what I have in my head right now.

 

[Gazz]

I'm not looking forward to mining if I have to left click through everything all the time.

You are not required to left click all the time.

It might be time to seperate mining melee if its as bad is what I have in my head right now.

Fixing the bad things in your head is not our job. =)

 

[Kage848]

Why anybody even tries to make a base before lvl 20 is beyond me. If you woke up naked in the forest and realized everyone was a zombie, would you tie a rock to a stick and try to build a house? there is other options besides that when u first start out. Like making due until you get a hold of the tools you need to build something.
When I hit level 20 I made some tools and went and mined. With perks I was 5 shotting rock and getting 12k rocks in a night and getting 2k rocks before I had to rest. (for about 5 seconds) Maybe you guys should test it out before passing judgement.

We want to build bases early because we love it.

I have since played the new update and it's as I feared. Building a horde base before lvl 20 is punishing. That annoys me. Not an huge deal but it matters to someone like me, that likes to build.

- - - Updated - - -

Just watched G4K's latest vid and he looked at the difference between right and left click attacks and mining/digging/chopping. I was critical of the nerf that harvesting had taken and now it appears like that was addressed. I do feel for the players getting the nerf on power attacks. I'm more a ranged weapon person, but plenty of friends love the sledge hammer or axe. Hopefully by A17S, TFP's will have the balance fine tuned, though I do feel for TFP's as no matter what, someone will not be happy with balance.

If you mean the last episode of his lp, the one with jorde night, he never restarted the world. Was probably buggy. Before i restarted my world I did some tests and they were buggy results.

 

[Noompsie]

Surprisingly enough, I am actually enjoying the new update/patch. I didn't rely on right click very much before, so I guess I really don't miss it much now, and i certainly appreciate the extra mats you receive with left click. I am on day 5 at the moment and have collected quite a bit of rock and clay for cobblestone for an early horde base, just a cheesy one I admit, but i'm happy with that. I also love to build and as it doesnt seem feasible to build the beautiful big underground bases with towers on top any more, I'm making use of the zombie tracking for a safe forge base and a horde base.

I love my club and use that mostly along with my bow and i'm not having any problems at the moment. It's a new game though, so I dont know how it will be as I progress.

The new menu options, zombie/feral speeds are awesome, great job.

 

[Noompsie]

Seems to have backfired, atleast in my case. The nerf on building made the game faster for me. I forgo building a home base now and just secure existing POIs early game. Then, I start building a horde base. The reason I say that it backfired and is faster is because TFP made me "adapt" and now I just kill zombies to get what I need. I forget about mining or building until I'm power-leveled to unlock items that are necessities for building a good horde base and to top it off... the AI is wayyyyyy easier to fool, you can literally make a horde go slower than walking with barbed wire and put them in loop.....
TLDR levels are faster, mining really isn't needed, building is less fun because the new AI pathing is easily cheesed... Trying to slow the game down in the beginning actually made the game shorter and easier (in my opinion) and lessened the replay value with removing the RNG

- - - Updated - - -

I love the realism argument lol. If I were in this scenario I would wonder why after killing X amount of zombies an audible alert played and then all the sudden I could do things I couldn't 5 seconds ago lmao

Lol, right on.

 

[LuckyStar]

Look Gazz I get the logic behind what you're trying to achieve here.

I completely agree that having Power attacks be something you need to choose wisely makes "logical" sense.

The problem I have with the new system is that you've made Mining even more boring.

Having to do the same thing many more times for the same "perceived" effect is freaking boring.

If I hit a rock five times and get say 100 stone....

.... then it's changed....

... and now I hit a rock ten times and get the same amount of stone....

...that's BORING!

Doesn't matter if it makes logical sense.

From a game play perspective it's a step backwards.

I get that you folks want to beginning game more grindy and the overall progression to take longer.

It extends the game.

It's just going to take time to get used to this system.

Eventually we'll all learn to go numb while mining. Works for Runescape so... why not here?

 

[WolfyBlah]

Look Gazz I get the logic behind what you're trying to achieve here.
I completely agree that having Power attacks be something you need to choose wisely makes "logical" sense.

The problem I have with the new system is that you've made Mining even more boring.

Having to do the same thing many more times for the same "perceived" effect is freaking boring.

If I hit a rock five times and get say 100 stone....

.... then it's changed....

... and now I hit a rock ten times and get the same amount of stone....

...that's BORING!

Doesn't matter if it makes logical sense.

From a game play perspective it's a step backwards.

I get that you folks want to beginning game more grindy and the overall progression to take longer.

It extends the game.

It's just going to take time to get used to this system.

Eventually we'll all learn to go numb while mining. Works for Runescape so... why not here?

Gotta disagree with that setinment, a tedious 7days to die isnt worth playing, not going to change my stance on this, its obvious the developers want the game to be longer, its basicly all they have done for the past several alphas, the base game was fun, slowing it down a bunch instead of improving it sucks ass.

 

[LuckyStar]

Gotta disagree with that setinment, a tedious 7days to die isnt worth playing, not going to change my stance on this, its obvious the developers want the game to be longer, its basicly all they have done for the past several alphas, the base game was fun, slowing it down a bunch instead of improving it sucks ass.

Hey I'm, not saying I agree with TFP's decisions, just that I understand their logic.

If I'm being completely forthright, I don't like a lot of the changes they've made.

What I am, however, is patient, and I'm willing to wait and see what they are trying to accomplish.

A17 has so many HUGE changes that it's just going to take time to balance and get working in a way the represents what TFP envision.

At times that's just going to suck.

Will it be worth it in the end?

... I think so.

They've come this far.

 

[Reth]

[...]...that's BORING!

[...]

I get that you folks want to beginning game more grindy and the overall progression to take longer.

It extends the game.

It's just going to take time to get used to this system.

Eventually we'll all learn to go numb while mining. Works for Runescape so... why not here?

TFP seems to be getting it all wrong. Making certain activities slow and boring will not prolong the game, it will make it shorter and faster as people will simply switch to less boring and more rewarding activities.

There is no mining or building before lvl 20 unless you are a masochist. There is only looting and killing every zombie you see just to get through this insanity. For all practical purposes they could just disable mining till lvl 20, it would have the same effect.

Better yet, they should start everybody at level 20 with an appropriate number of available skill points.

 

[LuckyStar]

... they should start everybody at level 20 with an appropriate number of available skill points.

That .... is .... BRILLIANT!!!

Have an "Accelerated Start" choice in the menu for it and you're golden.

 

[WolfyBlah]

Hey I'm, not saying I agree with TFP's decisions, just that I understand their logic.
If I'm being completely forthright, I don't like a lot of the changes they've made.

What I am, however, is patient, and I'm willing to wait and see what they are trying to accomplish.

A17 has so many HUGE changes that it's just going to take time to balance and get working in a way the represents what TFP envision.

At times that's just going to suck.

Will it be worth it in the end?

... I think so.

They've come this far.

Glad you can stay this optimistic, for me i have been around long enough to see the game change over years, almost nothing jn those changes has actually been all that positive for me and the stuff that is poistive the developers seem to want to remove or make grindy as all hell.

Im plenty patient, unfortunately patience dosent solve he developers being so set on thre game bieng a grind.

At least i can still play (atm strictly better) a16.4 modedd i guess, unless TFP are going to remove that option too at some point down the line.

 

[LuckyStar]

At least i can still play (atm strictly better) a16.4 modedd i guess, ...

Other than a fifteen day challenge I'm doing atm, I'm the same.

I'll be playing A16.4 for awhile longer.

That's fine right?

We're still having fun.

So many Mods for A16 too so it's extra fun.

 

[meganoth]

If I hit a rock five times and get say 100 stone....

.... then it's changed....

... and now I hit a rock ten times and get the same amount of stone....

...that's BORING!

You forgot to list the time it takes to hit the rock five and ten times.

We are comparing power attack(old) to normal attack(now) here, right? Power attack(old) was slow and you needed stamina regen pauses. Normal attack(new) takes more hits but is faster and practically needs nearly no regen pause.

I didn't time it, so your point may still stand, but for me the time to get those 100 rocks would be the interesting metric.

 

[LuckyStar]

You forgot to list the time it takes to hit the rock five and ten times.
We are comparing power attack(old) to normal attack(now) here, right? Power attack(old) was slow and you needed stamina regen pauses. Normal attack(new) takes more hits but is faster and practically needs nearly no regen pause.

I didn't time it, so your point may still stand, but for me the time to get those 100 rocks would be the interesting metric.

Yeah I think at some point I need to just time it.

Right now I am perceiving a longer, slower process.

In the end that's the most important thing.

Stamina usage certainly makes it slower but that's another variable.

[Coffee and Beer used to mitigate this.... not so much anymore.]

 

[Deceptive Pastry]

Well, fireaxes and steel pickaxe had a secondary attack speed modifier of -0.3, so essentially 70% as fast. But did 3x block damage. So the old way of spamming secondaries was no doubt faster for the first 2-3 blocks until stamina use caught up with you. The iron pickaxe on the other hand oddly had no secondary speed modifier (still doesn't), it's just as fast as primary and did 3x damage to blocks. They also slowed down the iron pickaxe by 5 attacks per minute this update.

Not factoring any perks:

Old iron pickaxe power attacking: 54 block dmg (stone), 60 atks per min = 3240 dmg per min

New iron pickaxe primary attacking: 43 block dmg (stone), 55 atks per min = 2365 dmg per min

Stamina usage on the power attacks was a limiting factor though early game, didn't have issues mid-game.

Factoring in only lvl 5 miner69r and the lvl 10 strength needed:

Old iron pickaxe: 90 block dmg (stone), 5400 dmg per min

New iron pickaxe primary attacking: 130 block dmg (stone), 7150 dmg per min

So yea, thanks to the buff to base damage and the way the +45% stone damage modifier applies after all of the percent adds from perks, at end-game they should end up faster than before if I did that right. Don't care to find out exactly where the breakpoint is.