PC POLL: Would you like to see food spoilage added?

[AtomicUs5000]

Maybe just the raw meat, there is an excessive amount to the point where you just run past animals in an apocalypse,which seems silly, plus the rotten flesh then can be used for farm plots

Take away food so that you end up with more food? That's weird.

I don't think that a lot of animals around is far-fetched. The zombies don't care to eat them. There's you and a few traders and nobody else around. There aren't tons of cars driving around. There aren't any land developers clearing the brush. I think wildlife would be booming. Even the rabbits will be reproducing like rabbits.

 

[PPanda0421]

Ah I come back 1 day later is this thread explodes with tons of comments and replies (not to just to me of course). I'm not going to read all of and will just reply to this one. This will probably will one of the last replies for me for this thread.

I think most players amass canned food at the early game. This is the best way to play since food poisoning is devastating then (and harmless later). I even explained in detail in a few threads (this one? cant remember) exactly how to do this. It's a pain, but not as much of a pain as getting food poising early game, so it really is the optimal way to play. This is why spoilage would not work imo and just push more people away from farming and towards cans. Why take the risk of poisoning AND the hassle of spoiling when you don't need to?

Most people amass canned food early game because they cannot make the high level food recipes immediately. But if they get lucky they can kill lots of animals if they find guns/ammo and/or find seed/food recipes and start making tiered foods. It all depends on the RNG and your playstyle.

Generally, people who like farming and crafting food will continue to farm and craft food. Likewise, people who only want canned foods will stick to canned foods. They may switch to the other food type just to try out the new mechanics, but generally when people like something they continue doing what they like.

So how will you feel when your gs gets high enough that Demolishers appear but you weren't ready for them because you farmed and filled chests with food when you should have mined and built? This game is all about time management and being efficient in preparing for the increasing hordes......At least if you're on high difficulty and plan to fight them. Time wastage is absolutely a thing in this game. I guess you could throw rancid food at them.

Again you're talking about your gameplay and experience. First I'm in SP so the game is easier than MP even though I play on insane mode now. Secondly as we discussed in other threads I played in a style that did not increase my GS that much for horde night so I could spend more time gathering resources and building my base. My early horde base design worked pretty well as well. By the time demolishers came I had a pretty rock solid horde base. Right now I think my GS is 500-600+ (due to insane mode) or around there. Taking a break atm though to do RL stuff.

And all their houses were blown down. But the little piggy who didn't waste any time on such frivolity still had a house at the end of it all.

Don't you mean houses made of reinforced concrete + steel upgrade? . Joking aside. I have no issues with high level GS horde nights (500-600+). My turrets and blade traps do most of the damage and I take care of the rest when they're stunned on my electric posts. On most high level horde nights demolishers barely make a dent in my overall horde base. Even when I mess up and the demolishers destroy the reinforced concrete/steel blocks and/or traps/turrets, those blocks are easily replaced. I have all the 7/7 books so I can make things in bulk. For resources I have half a chest of (full stacks) steel ingots; same goes for iron ingots; tons of stacks of rebar frames/scrap iron; chestful of wood; about 2 chestfuls of gunpowder; crap ton of 9mm, shotgun shells, 7.62mm bullets, , etc, etc. I'm a hoarder, remember?

I'm still not understanding why you feel massing food that you can never use was a productive thing to do. Other than pure fun if you enjoy farming, I can get that but otherwise? WHY?? What did it do to help you survive? Playing 7 Days because you enjoy farming does not compute. Stardew Valley perhaps.

Simple. "Pure fun" you said it yourself. Do I even need to explain more? You actually *don't* get it if I say I enjoy farming/making food and still ask me why I do such things. Again, I enjoy farming, making food and hoarding mass quantities of everything. It is fun for me.

I actually bought stardew valley but have yet to play it. Spending too much time cycling through my games list of CDDA (mainly), 7D2D, Project Zomboid, Rimworld plus RL. Can't add another game to the list.

Off-topic: This thread has ballooned fast. I hope TFP staff is going through this thread and taking notes of everyone's opinions and suggestions. Using feedback from customers can be invaluable to developers for the future.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Off-topic: This thread has ballooned fast. I hope TFP staff is going through this thread and taking notes of everyone's opinions and suggestions. Using feedback from customers can be invaluable to developers for the future.

It's an excellent thread with a lot of thoughts from many perspectives. Other threads are jealous and want to be the Would you like to see food spoilage added? thread.

 

[hotpoon]

I have played those and getting food in Ark, Conan, and Atlas and personally didn't like it but dealt with it only because it really isn't hard at all to get meat in those at all. In Ark dinos give way more meat then you can even deal with within a good 5 to 10 min run and feeds all dinos, everyone in group and myself. In Conan meat isn't an issue every hill you go over you have loads of things to kill and still same thing a good 10 mins and you are good to go if you focus on getting meat only for days. In Atlas same thing like Ark only difference that is a pain in it is the victims you got to keep up with along with it but still the islands have plenty of food and meat and the ocean has plenty of fish. Either way I don't care for the mechanics in non of them and on private server and or SP I adjust each game to make it less annoying. So if added in this game I would do the same thing. But in this game meat isn't as easy to come by as those. Some times no issues but other times you don't see hardly any animals so it isn't as easy to just log on and go out the door and kill something like those games every time (from my experience). Then we want to add it to crops as well like getting a nice farm as it is isn't a pain right now? Idk like I said not my cup of tea but I don't hate those that like it.
Another reason my friend likes to play with us when they get a chance to play a few times a week. They enjoy the company but they like doing what they like and don't want to live off anyone or anything. So this would force them to play a different way and force them to live with others because by the time they log on all the food they had would be spoiled. Then they have to spend the time they do have goin out hunting if they are lucky to find animals that time vs the last time and grow crops or the last option is to live off can foods only so now they are forced to spend time looking for can food all the time. So speaking for then right now and they might not care idk but this wouldn't be something they would want to do and I'm sure they say mod that crap out please.

So idk, like I said I personally don't see a good way of doing this to make it fun. So I still say for me and me alone (if others agree fine but not speaking for them) let then use the resources to add better things to game and let this be a mod. But again if they do add it I will be more then happy to do what i do in those other games and adjust it to fit my liking.

Very good point - it is much easier to get food in those games. So if they were to add spoilage they would need to have much longer expiry dates to make up for it. Of course food expiry becomes negligible if it takes so long to spoil, so then maybe not much point in adding it. It might be more time spent coding it, than the value it would add to the game.

I'm with ZombieSurvivor on this one, I think you've won me over to the dark side, but with a 'soft' no, not a 'hell' no.

A better poll would have been Do you want Wellness put back in the game? I loved that mechanic.

I think it's been an interesting poll, but I vote yes to adding back the Wellness system.

 

[Jugginator]

No thank you to wellness. Granted, you need more food than in A16 (when you eat 1 meat stew and be "full" for a week), but the only thing that wellness tied to food caused was people standing naked in a snow biome waiting to not be "full" and eating. Didn't even make sense, eat meat stew and suddenly you have more HP? I think adding max hp/stam every level kinda makes more sense.

 

[hotpoon]

No thank you to wellness. Granted, you need more food than in A16 (when you eat 1 meat stew and be "full" for a week), but the only thing that wellness tied to food caused was people standing naked in a snow biome waiting to not be "full" and eating. Didn't even make sense, eat meat stew and suddenly you have more HP? I think adding max hp/stam every level kinda makes more sense.

Maybe you did that, but some of us don't make a game into a job

 

[Ghostlight]

No thank you to wellness. Granted, you need more food than in A16 (when you eat 1 meat stew and be "full" for a week), but the only thing that wellness tied to food caused was people standing naked in a snow biome waiting to not be "full" and eating. Didn't even make sense, eat meat stew and suddenly you have more HP? I think adding max hp/stam every level kinda makes more sense.

Just because a few people abused a mechaninc in a bizarre way doesn't mean the mechanic was bad or could not have been tweaked a little. Just like spam-crafting. Wellness was very satisfying for a lot of us who interacted with it "normally". Our current food system is rather meaningless. It doesn't matter what you eat as long a you eat. I find that bland. At least with Wellness what you chose to eat mattered.

 

[Jugginator]

A few people? I may not have 4000 hours into the game like some of you have, but every server I played on in A16 that's what everyone did to get wellness up, in fact someone else told me that's how they do it. Hell, 99% of people I met in servers complained about wellness being stupid to get due to the food system. There's no way you can get your HP high with A16's system unless you played for 200-300 days. Your food levels never dropped no matter what you were doing.

And you said some people don't treat the game like a job, uh well, if you wanted to not spend 200 hours in a single playthrough to get your stats up/get to end-game stat-area, doing things like standing in the snow naked eating meat stews were the only way to circumvent spending hundred of hours playing.

 

[hotpoon]

We all play games differently for different purposes because we derive enjoyment from games in different ways.

• For example, my main motivating factor is fun. I am not a completionist. 99% of my games lie unfinished. In story games, I mess around with side quests most of the time. I play while I'm having fun and as soon as starts to feel like a chore, I move on to another game.
  
• Some other people play for a sense of accomplishment from having completed every single thing they can in a game. 100% Steam achievements. All side quests done. Max level reached. That's what they do because that is what brings them joy...or a sense of closure - whatever their goal is I guess.
  
• Then still other people, just want to rush through a game as fast as possible to get to that glorious end game content. No sidequests. Min/Max a build in the fastest and most efficient way and speed run to the end.
  

I try not to judge people who play differently than me because at the end of the day, games are for entertainment, and if people find it entertaining to achieve max level with the highest dps in the shortest amount if time, then they are going to do that even if it means sacrificing fun for standing in the snow biome to get hungry, spam crafting, rubbing their nuts on cacti... Whatever. If they want to play like that, fine, but taking away perfectly fun and engaging mechanics because they can be 'abused' by these people is a bit judgy, I think. Because to them it is not abuse. For them they are playing the game the way they like to.

Here's when people will say "oh, but multiplayer". Unless you want to play Quake (which I love btw), multiplayer is never going to be a fair even playing ground. There are always going to be people who start on the server before you do, people who spend more time grinding than you do, people who have more clan members, etc.

I just think balancing the game around trying to stop min/maxers is a fruitless endeavor that just takes features away.

 

[crazywildfire]

Very good point - it is much easier to get food in those games. So if they were to add spoilage they would need to have much longer expiry dates to make up for it. Of course food expiry becomes negligible if it takes so long to spoil, so then maybe not much point in adding it. It might be more time spent coding it, than the value it would add to the game.
I'm with ZombieSurvivor on this one, I think you've won me over to the dark side, but with a 'soft' no, not a 'hell' no.

Yelp and that is just the base of the reasons I don't feel it is a good idea. But like I said on another post I would be up to make it harder for food. Yeah sure this time I see loads of animals and next time I log in I don't. Make animals more rare I know, I know that other time you don't run into anything or could be several hours but when you do kill what you can because you just might run out of meat because now it is even harder to find animals. Then it make the perk living off the land feel even more meaningful so two birds with one stone. As far as crops I say making plots is already a pain so that doesn't need anything thing else done so the only thing I can think of is take even longer to grow really and I mean at least double if not tripple the time it takes now to grow. So again the perk feels like it has more value. This kind of stuff I have no problem with. I just have problem with mostly what I have already said. Log on spend time getting and growing food before/while being able to do maybe a few other things. Then spend less time enjoying the other parts of the game to turn aroun and do it again next log in (unless on SP). To me this is more for hardcore players that play more then the average person so I say should be a mod. Anyway already said this and you already seen the points so now I'm just rambling lol.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

We all play games differently for different purposes because we derive enjoyment from games in different ways.

• For example, my main motivating factor is fun. I am not a completionist. 99% of my games lie unfinished. In story games, I mess around with side quests most of the time. I play while I'm having fun and as soon as starts to feel like a chore, I move on to another game.
  
• Some other people play for a sense of accomplishment from having completed every single thing they can in a game. 100% Steam achievements. All side quests done. Max level reached. That's what they do because that is what brings them joy...or a sense of closure - whatever their goal is I guess.
  
• Then still other people, just want to rush through a game as fast as possible to get to that glorious end game content. No sidequests. Min/Max a build in the fastest and most efficient way and speed run to the end.
  

I try not to judge people who play differently than me because at the end of the day, games are for entertainment, and if people find it entertaining to achieve max level with the highest dps in the shortest amount if time, then they are going to do that even if it means sacrificing fun for standing in the snow biome to get hungry, spam crafting, rubbing their nuts on cacti... Whatever. If they want to play like that, fine, but taking away perfectly fun and engaging mechanics because they can be 'abused' by these people is a bit judgy, I think. Because to them it is not abuse. For them they are playing the game the way they like to.

Here's when people will say "oh, but multiplayer". Unless you want to play Quake (which I love btw), multiplayer is never going to be a fair even playing ground. There are always going to be people who start on the server before you do, people who spend more time grinding than you do, people who have more clan members, etc.

I just think balancing the game around trying to stop min/maxers is a fruitless endeavor that just takes features away.

Yes... and no

Spoiler

While we all play differently and for differnt reasons, games should have a focus. Because if you stretch yourself too thin to accompany all, you don't satisfy anyone (most AAA games).

But smaller games don't have the luxury of huge marketing campaigns and rely on the word of mouth. And if a game is just... "eh" in everything but there is no negative, nobody will share it... it was ok... but not great so not worth sharing.

7d2d was an awesome survival horror game with some building that supported the survival aspect. Then came the (in my opinion very nice) RPG elements, but they took away a bit from the horror. Then more and more the horror was stripped and then readded by stipping away the realism in the world (zombies in walls and stuff, even if they removed that as far as I can tell in A18), then they remade the rpg system to be more gamey, removing the integrity of the world AND the horror aspect and with A18 they introduced guns.

Now its a looter shooter with some building elements.

This is has nothing to do with the main topic, but my important message is:

You need a certain nieche that you fill best to be a success. And while 7d2d is an awesome looter shooter now, it has too view zombies to really shot... because the engine and voxels don't allow it. So you have a shooter with very few enemies... :-/

I mean thats what EA is for... but they spread their butter on too much bread.

PS: still like the A18 looter shooter. They fixed so much **** from A17... but they could be so much more

 

[Ghostlight]

A few people? I may not have 4000 hours into the game like some of you have, but every server I played on in A16 that's what everyone did to get wellness up, in fact someone else told me that's how they do it.

Do you know how long you'd need to stand there freezing for it make a real difference? Stupidest thing I've ever heard. Spending that time seeking out the best food or ways to get the best food would be far more productive.

There's no way you can get your HP high with A16's system unless you played for 200-300 days.

Nonsense. And you're just proving my point. I regularly got my HP maxed in A16 and I did it long before day 200. And I did it by farming and hunting and playing normally.

Your food levels never dropped no matter what you were doing.

Eh? What do you mean by this? Your fullness (aka hunger) dropped by a fixed amount each day in A16. And your max HP dropped by 10 (which is 1000 Wellness) every time you died.

 

[ZombieSurvivor]

It's an excellent thread with a lot of thoughts from many perspectives. Other threads are jealous and want to be the Would you like to see food spoilage added? thread.

lol....are you starting to see why I wrote the poll and the original message the way I did? Psychology baby I love it and it worked exactly the way I was hoping. lol

 

[Liesel Weppen]

Do you know how long you'd need to stand there freezing for it make a real difference? Stupidest thing I've ever heard. Spending that time seeking out the best food or ways to get the best food would be far more productive.

Hehe, nice one. I didn't remember any problem in A16 with getting HP up. Maybe we cared for good food intentionally?

I never came to the idea standing in snow biome just to freeze down my food level so i could eat again to increase wellness.

I think the time needed to freeze down was not so important, because freezing in snow biome can be done afk. So you let your char stand in the base naked without campfire and went to lunch.

So, yeah, for me that's some kind of mechanic abusing for not needing to play the game.

Right on the same line with "the game is to hard, but i'd never lower the difficulty settings below insane".

Back in older versions one of our team was the opinion e.g. while building our base so he stood near to his sleeping bag anyway: "why eat, just die and respawn on bed, you loose nothing, not even time, but you save effort for running to our food crate and you save food for when you really need it" (basically he did that in almost all survival games unless there was a really hard death penalty. Just 5% XP loss couldn't stop him). I found this "playstyle" so anyoing, because for me it made the whole game completely pointless. After some time he understood by himself whats wrong with such an attitude, maybe he got bored by his own do-it-as-cheesy-as-you-can.

Currently all my coplayers agreed, we do not cheese the game. We knew different possibilites, we even discovered some possibilites by accident (like the ramp trick), but since we knew them, we decided to avoid them. Because for us it doesn't make fun just to absue something just because you can. But instead it takes the game away. As i said, playing with the goal not to play it anymore.

So i agree with crazywildfire. You won't find any mechanics which really could exploited in one or another way. Circumventing a mechanic to easily, maybe not even consciously, makes a mechanic useless. But caring for every possibility that anybody might be able to willingly cheese around it, will not have any result ever.

 

[ZombieSurvivor]

everyone.

This has been extremely interesting. Reading the views of everyone. seeing the numbers from the poll result suprised me. I came in this thinking one way and voted yeah sure and left viewing this topic another way having changed my vote to no. thank you all for keeping it civil, I don't think I saw one true arguement that got out of hand at all. *fist bump all*

 

[tricorius]

I voted #3.

I'm curious to see how the final food situation works with all the new recipes in, etc.

Will the Food Poisoning chance be worth the tradeoff if I can get some pretty spiffy food buffs? :: shrug ::

I feel like a spoilage mechanic will just increase the irritation factor for most people. I would like to try it; but I'm unsure if I would like the additional micromanagement. All it really boils down to is that you have to hunt or loot more frequently until you advance enough for refrigeration.

So, it's a time sink. Whether it's a *fun* time sink, remains to be seen.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

lol....are you starting to see why I wrote the poll and the original message the way I did? Psychology baby I love it and it worked exactly the way I was hoping. lol

You hoped for the self-reverse-psychology?

Make a poll like this then:

Would you like to give AtomicUs5000 a big stack of cash?

No way I'm poor

No he has enough money

I'm chill and could care less

Yeah sure

Yes and it's long over due

EDIT: Hopefully the votes will be swayed too, because people have chests overflowing with money and want more of a challenge.

 

[Kalen]

I'm chill and could care less

Ok, I've been biting my tongue since the poll first went up.... but I can't sit by anymore!

It's "couldn't care less".

I have spoken.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Ok, I've been biting my tongue since the poll first went up.... but I can't sit by anymore!
It's "couldn't care less".

I have spoken.

Just trying to get my money.

In ZombieSurvivor’s voice (whatever that is, never heard him), I say...

If a person could not care less they would not vote becuase they really truelly could not care any less.If a person cares enough to cast a vote that means that person could care less....

Granted its not how most would view this but i'm a nut case. I did not want the words I used corrected because they were written exactly how I wanted it to be said. lol...thanks for the thought behind it though Roland.

Now the ones that couldn't care less will cast a vote and I was not trying to include them.....ahh.. lol

Dont mind me, its just crazy psychology mumble jumble..nevermind. *walks away talking to self* lol

 

[Kalen]

Just trying to get my money.In ZombieSurvivor’s voice (whatever that is, never heard him), I say...

lol... my head is now spinning.