PC Please rescue Multiplayer in A20 !!!

[Matt115]

What you don't get is that I ignore the parts of a post I have no issue with. So he's fixed bugs through the process of modding that the devs haven't fixed yet. Great. Bravo and thanks. That is exactly what modders can do and have been doing for years and not just for this game. I never disputed that fact. That's all good and like all modders who enhance the current game in ways that give people greater enjoyment, I am in awe of their willingness to do it and not just once but over and over again through multiple updates that break what they had before.

But that would have made no sense as a response to the part that I quoted. That was the only part of his post I had a quibble with and only because he was applying it TFP prematurely. I agree that modders shouldn't have to be the ones to permanently fix bugs. I don't agree that we've reached that point.

Zipcore: Modding should never be the permanent fix to bugs that the developers should have fixed in code.

Me (as directed by Grandpa): Your mod is the only fix known to fix some issues.

Yeah....that just doesn't work for me since my whole point was that so far not one mod can be considered the permanent fix for any bugs. In 2023 or 2024 if TFP says, "We're done and moving on" and there are still some major bugs that are only fixed via mods and TFP has no interest in dealing with them-- then at that point will I join the lament that it is a shame that mods are the only permanent solution.

I guess go back and read the part I quoted and how I responded to it because the way you think I should have responded is janky. Even Zipcore, himself, understood what I was talking about and thanked me (I'm supposing because what I said gives him hope that the devs are planning to fix the bugs he's been fighting with mods). Since the convo was between him and I over that part maybe you can step back from defensive mode a bit. In no way was I dissing Zipcore or minimizing his contribution. 

I clearly stated that we are not to the point yet where we can call Zipcore's mods (which is the only one) fixing the bugs it they do as the "permanent solution". TFP is still on deck.

It hasn't been 7 years. It has been almost 9 years and their priorities are their own. The community should know that they signed on to a game that is still in development and members of that community should hopefully get that their choices are A) live with the unfinished nature of the game B) mod temporary solutions that can make playing better while waiting for TFP to act or C) shelve the game until it's done.

I've met quite a few people over the years who reveal themselves to not have the patience, understanding, and temperament to enjoy playing a game that is indev. Maybe that's you. If this game ends up taking 10 years or 12 years to finish it doesn't matter. The full game hasn't been released yet and you sound to me to clearly be a "full release game" kind of person.

I usually argue with you but this time i totaly agree with you. There a famouse RTS Half live 2 mod and it was finished after 13 years. 13 years for free mod is just wow. So that's why i know that it take time to make things. I can complain about gameplay/art style but i totaly agree about bugs and development time

 

[Grandpa Minion]

I've met quite a few people over the years who reveal themselves to not have the patience, understanding, and temperament to enjoy playing a game that is indev. Maybe that's you. If this game ends up taking 10 years or 12 years to finish it doesn't matter. The full game hasn't been released yet and you sound to me to clearly be a "full release game" kind of person.

lol i had to laugh at this one for sure. "full release kind of person" doesn't wait 20000+hours for a game to complete. If you really want to know how i feel about it im an old man and i don't have time to wait another x many years odds are ill be dead by than.

 

[Roland]

lol i had to laugh at this one for sure. "full release kind of person" doesn't wait 20000+hours for a game to complete. If you really want to know how i feel about it im an old man and i don't have time to wait another x many years odds are ill be dead by than.

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You think number of hours played means you are playing with the attitude and mindset that the game is still in development?

We’ve established well enough in that other “gone wrong” thread that people will continue to do what makes them unhappy for unfathomable reasons.
 

My humble 4000ish hours have been amazing because I play with the understanding the game isn’t finished. I use mods with gratitude for what they can offer in the meantime. I still hope for a complete polished game in the future.

I’d rather that than 22000 hours filled with resentment over what still hasn’t been fixed, anger that a mod is being used as a bandaid, and cynicism about the game’s future. 
 

It’s cool that you are such a veteran of the game but it just goes to show there is no correlation between time played and the type of early access attitude someone will have. 

 

[Sal]

We’ve established well enough in that other “gone wrong” thread that people will continue to do what makes them unhappy for unfathomable reasons.

"We have"......Or was that just you trying to push your blatantly biased opinions onto others due to the fact that TFP can do no wrong in your eyes. Stop with the BS. 

 

[JCrook1028]

your blatantly biased opinion

All opinions are biased.... that's the very definition of the term after all.

 

[Roland]

And isn’t “blatantly” biased simply evidence of my open and truthful discourse?  Nobody can accuse me of hidden agendas.
 

By the way @Sal I do post criticism of TFP decisions and have done so recently. You just can’t recognize it because it is done with respect and without toxicity and with the understanding that they aren’t finished yet. 
 

Honestly, why haven’t I made your ignore list yet?

 

[Sal]

And isn’t “blatantly” biased simply evidence of my open and truthful discourse?  Nobody can accuse me of hidden agendas.

When a person has to resort to irrelevant semantics like this instead of addressing the initial post (when you were referring to yourself to "we have") then it's a clear sign of defeat without ever wanting to admit it.

So lets try this again and I'll be more direct here (as if it wasn't already).

You said this above....

We’ve established well enough in that other “gone wrong” thread that people will continue to do what makes them unhappy for unfathomable reasons.

This was a reference to the other thread and you said "we've established".  So tell me......who is "we"?

 By the way @Sal I do post criticism of TFP decisions and have done so recently. You just can’t recognize it because it is done with respect and without toxicity and with the understanding that they aren’t finished yet.

See, once again, pushing your opinions onto others and trying to pass them off as facts.  Thanks for further proving my point once again. 

Here's another theory as to why I don't recognize it. IF, and that's a big IF, they are too few and far between the amount of time you spend arguing with people who don't like certain aspects of the game and trying to convince them that your are right and they are wrong based on your obvious one-sided perspective.

Here's another question since you said "truthful discourse". Out of your last 100 posts, how many of them are criticizing TFP?  That's what I thought.

You try too hard to pass your opinions off as clear facts and use your "super moderator" title to push your agenda and you know it.  Stop with the BS. You know there are sheep like the BFT2000, or whoever the hell her name is, will do whatever to kiss your ass and you use it to your advantage. You have been called out on this crap for years by many others than myself and where there's smoke there's fire.

 

[BFT2020]

You know there are sheep like the BFT2000, or whoever the hell her name is, will do whatever to kiss your ass and you use it to your advantage.

Baaaa

 

[Roland]

This was a reference to the other thread and you said "we've established".  So tell me......who is "we"?

Well...me, and No_Name_Idea, and even Soren Johnsen (whom No Name quoted), and some others probably on both sides of the overall argument that things have gone wrong since what Soren Johnsen said is pretty widely accepted as truth and I was basically saying the same thing. The famous quote is: "given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game". So..yeah...we established that players will continue to do what will make them unhappy for unfathomable reasons. And as the thread clearly showed, even when presented with the idea that players might choose to self limit themselves in order to preserve their fun, there were some who continued to state that they were forced to optimize their fun away since the opportunity to do so was there.

Since No_Name_Idea was posting counter arguments to mine on certain opinions, it is fair to say that my statement about "we" is pretty accurate. It wasn't just "me and my fans" as you might say.

Oh, and Kuosimodo showed up with some emoji reactions so we can include them too

You have been called out on this crap for years by many others than myself and where there's smoke there's fire.

Out of the last 100 people directly addressing me in a post, how many of them have called me out on this crap? That's what I thought. lol

You seem very antagonistic towards me and are even beginning to insult others and call people names. I haven't invoked my super moderator status once in any of the back and forth debating that has been going on. Nobody who opposes my POV has been punished in any way. That's the way it works around here. You can be critical and you can share your different perspective and as long as it is done respectfully there is no harm and no foul. But as soon as you cross over the line into toxic posting, you're done (this is me invoking my super moderator status finally btw). You can push your own opinion about the game and remain but if you don't keep your anger in check you will be limited in your posting privileges.

Stop with the BS. You know there are sheep like the BFT2000, or whoever the hell her name is, will do whatever to kiss your ass and you use it to your advantage.

Just in case you didn't grasp what I was talking about, it is right here in this line. This is pretty insulting language and BFT2000 laughed it off but there is no need to cross such lines. You've been insulting me in your last few posts directed at me accusing me of using my power to push my opinion and such. Interestingly, if I was really that type of a person, none of your posts calling me out would ever be seen and yet they are all still there and you are still here and with not even one single infraction on your record ever despite more than one post directly criticizing me and not even always in a civil manner. I just don't see the evidence that I'm using my super moderator status to stop you...like, at all.

But, I will use that status to stop you from insulting others if you don't reign it in. 

 

[Rotor]

Roh Roh!

 

[Matt115]

 "given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game".

Well... this is not true. I would send you video about that but this is in polish language only  so in short : this depends on how many content game have and type of player - some players would be in paradise if 7dtd had 100 + types of guns , zombie etc but in this same type builders players can be borred because lack of shapes etc. This depends what people want to do in this game.  M&B is for me boring as hell , but warband is soo good.  And... there is always "early stage" problem. DL2 is sooo boring until you will find usefull weapons in high number. Why? because stab this same enemy 15-20 times is not fun  if you want to keep "realistic art style". That's why oblivion is soooo boring without mods because well... maybe there is a lot of quests etc but if you have to stab 1 guy 20-30 times it's boring as hell

 

[Roland]

this depends on how many content game have and type of player - some players would be in paradise if 7dtd had 100 + types of guns , zombie etc but in this same type builders players can be borred because lack of shapes etc.

Content isn’t enough—not at the rate at which it is consumed. 
 

The optimizing player would find the one best gun and ignore the other 99 and quickly grow bored with the one viable weapon. 
 

The optimizing player would only use the best shapes and ignore the rest. We saw the proof of this when TFP briefly reduced the hp of several block types. Immediately we had people stating they would never use those blocks again. Why, if they were builders? Answer: more than builders they were optimizers. 
 

The optimizing player will burn through however much content is added in a rush and immediately return to boredom. 
 

I wish I could see your Polish video. Maybe it would convince me. 

 

[Matt115]

Content isn’t enough—not at the rate at which it is consumed. 
 

The optimizing player would find the one best gun and ignore the other 99 and quickly grow bored with the one viable weapon. 
 

The optimizing player would only use the best shapes and ignore the rest. We saw the proof of this when TFP briefly reduced the hp of several block types. Immediately we had people stating they would never use those blocks again. Why, if they were builders? Answer: more than builders they were optimizers. 
 

The optimizing player will burn through however much content is added in a rush and immediately return to boredom. 
 

I wish I could see your Polish video. Maybe it would convince me. 

1. Valheim is good example about that ( i would give as example  RE4 too but this is not sandbox). You want X first you have to get Y,Z etc.   So often to get this one gun you have to get some stuff be able to defeat enemy. So let say the best 7DTD gun is in safe in military bunker . DO you want to get this gun? fine but you have to kill 20 wight. Oh you can do it? but gun is in locked safe. destroy by pickaxe? boom autodestruction protocol bye bye.  So you have to collect code - but you have to check 3 diffrents location so...  get this gud will be your "ultimate" target. But you can ignored rest of guns. Why? because this gun need experimental ammo and you can find only in lab crates. So you will be not bored because it will be like  broken butterfly  in RE4 - OP guns but 99% time you don't have this type of ammo. 

2. i mean by builders people who focus on making nice looking building  - you know this type of players who builids London, anor londo, Sauron tower etc in MC . I see a lot of people want new shapes , colours etc not "exploiters". If number of shapes etc was just 10% of current number of shapes  it would be fast became boring for them

3. This depends on person - for me even new models of zombies give me motivation to play ( Painkiller, CoD).  Well this is stupid thing because 7DTD could have tons of mechanics, workbenches etc but if there would be only 10 models of zombie this would be so boring game for me, in this same time i love L4D2 because... well this game is simple but you don't have "clone wars" syndrome ( except Seriouse sam but here is a lot of types of enemies and in KILLING FLOOR this same type of clone have diffrent model depend on map - like painkiller

4. Well about boredom hm... i can get the best guns in cod bw in zombie mode but if number of enemy model is good enough it is still "fresh" for me. But when i have to fight with 10 this zombie during 5 minutes i don't see point of playing this game.  So honestly if 7dtd would have 3-4x more variants of zombies if woudn't complain too much about rest of the game. Why? because if i have feeling that i'm doing something i don't spend time on looking what isn't suit here ( for example - gun x don't suit into this Call to arm ostfront map but i don't care about that because 99% looks good but in this same time 1 bad placed gun in Vanguard looks horrible).

5. Ok as a proof - this one

Small information : check 2:04- 3:07,  5:44 - 7:02, 8;42-9:39

I can translete as best as i can if you want.

6. Well for me the 'best " weapon problem in 7dtd in my opinion is connected with perks.  Because "all weapons are equal" ( with small exception of junk MG which is better that rest) makes problem that there is no point to use everything. If shotgun was much much more powerful but ammo would be rare and low this would be " desparate " weapon, if MG ammo would be expensive and gun will have low durability this will make MG as antihorde/ T4-T5 POI weapon. I undestand that TFP wanted to make 7dtd as 'tutorial" before hard mods but damn.... i hope another 7DTD unvierse game will have more content and harder ( well difficulty is connected with content sometimes - harder game = more workbench versions, materials etc )