PC PLEASE fix stamina, pain tolerance, near death experience..other problems unbalanced!

Actually, the stamina isn't a big deal.. its actually not a deal at all. And as for realistic... Unless you're conditioned in it, try chopping a tree down with a fire ax. Or smash some rocks with a pickaxe, or smash down really hard with a sledgehammer.
There are issues with A17, but I personally think the stamina is perfectly fine. The decay is slightly harsh but the amount of food in the game is insane
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Well I am referring to the stamina at the start of the game, I can only hit a block about 8 times with a very small one handed axe... An average man can swing that about 50 times in real life before being incapable. This is the scrape of the surface of negative feelings I can only truly feel when I start the game. Also having to learn how to cook things is cool but do we really have only eggs to cook before having to need skill points to survive? Maybe I am missing something but the game at recommended normal difficulty (as it was intended) is a little over the top (yes in my opinion) but I don't think I am the only one thinking things like a near death experience de-buff is not needed because it is just negative.

If you want to implement cool things make the features be positive, like starting with a close to normal amount of stamina based off of real life. Of course we can not base everything off real life because then it would not be a game it would be a RL simulator, however I believe the stamina and cooking and de-buffs should be tweaked. As one of the moderators said they are changing stamina. So I am looking forward to that. I do hope they change some de-buffs, like food poisoning or heat exhaustion... There are so many negative aspects to list and this to me is not a fun experience. The player wants to earn their buffs and their strength, not feel like some weak pathetic creature who cant eat some raw corn...

 
Thank you to all those people who are trying to lift me up and give me and other people progressive thoughts, I will try again but I do know certainly I had much more fun in A16 than A17. If you look in the other threads A17 is a mess some people say and for the reasons in my post I agree.

 
I could almost get behind the current A17 if you got a starting message of something like...
"After venturing much to farYou come to after an intense struggle with yet another horde that went badly... You don't know how you made it out... All you know is someone apparently got to your loot, you're home is a much too distant place, and sore, tired and hungry..."

And a quest line that pathed you to rehabilitating yourself (stam skills and such, probably renamed).
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That's actually brilliant. It would make a lot of sense given the current state of early game. It does feel like your character is crippled in the beginning, and 'rehabilitate' is much nicer way of putting it. I once described it as 'trying to get my character to not be such an effing spaz'. I would have more sympathy for my character if I knew she had a backstory like that.

Interested to see what happens in A17.1 though. Maybe our characters start out a bit more average instead of feeble. Guess we'll see.

 
Well I am referring to the stamina at the start of the game, I can only hit a block about 8 times with a very small one handed axe... An average man can swing that about 50 times in real life before being incapable.
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Does the average man wake up naked & afraid in the middle of a apocalyptic wasteland? No food, no water, no idea how you got there or how long you've been out. Isn't it reasonable to think you'd need some time (levels) to get your find your footing?

I'm just showing you how I can reconcile the things your talking about. I'm not going to say your wrong, I feel the pain starting out and I mod things to suit me. I'm too spoiled at this point with things as they were.

But I wonder if I just picked up this game and did not read any of the negative reviews, would I just assume this is normal and play on?

 
I really don't see the problem. You started an adventure and, at first glance, and imagining that you know a little the game, you were rather unlucky: You haven't found any animal (no boar, no deer, no snake, no rabbit, even a big fat bear). You haven't found canned food in the POIs. You haven't found one of the thousands cooking pots waiting for you in POIs to cook some eggs. A difficult start. Extremely rare.And there, luck, you found corn. But there is a risk in everything: corn could give diarrhea. And that's what happens. Now you're sick.

As I see it, it's already a story to tell your grandchildren if you ever get out of it.

If you wait a little, you will heal and surely survive.

You can also restart a game by counting on a benevolent chance.

But these mechanisms seem to me perfectly adapted to a survival game.
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good luck killinganything running around with some arrows while your stamina runs out in 20 seconds LOL

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Does the average man wake up naked & afraid in the middle of a apocalyptic wasteland? No food, no water, no idea how you got there or how long you've been out. Isn't it reasonable to think you'd need some time (levels) to get your find your footing?
I'm just showing you how I can reconcile the things your talking about. I'm not going to say your wrong, I feel the pain starting out and I mod things to suit me. I'm too spoiled at this point with things as they were.

But I wonder if I just picked up this game and did not read any of the negative reviews, would I just assume this is normal and play on?
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I agree there is way to muster and deal with the game as it is all I am saying is now there is much more room for improvement and a greater need for balance changes then there was in A16.

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Maybe give better balance mod a try. I am really enjoying the changes so far and whatever I dont like I just edit the xml files.
https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?94223-MOD-A17-Better-Balance-Mod
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Thanks I will try maybe if they don't patch it soon. Overall the game is amazing the way it looks and the features that can happen (gameplay) I just wish it was a little less annoying and demoralizing (makes you feel like crap when you can't eat or cook lol or run lol or hit anything...Get my point?

 
Using bows uses very little stamina, also the only deaths ive had early game have been from birds. I hate the birds. The stamina is a joke, unless all you do is power swing and stand still and take a hit. Jumping & sprinting eats too much stamina to use in combat

also hitting a tree 50 times with a small one handed axe like a hatchet, for the average person isn't something they can do. Maybe in theory, but i dont think you've actually hacked at a tree with an axe. If you're barely tapping it, sure! But 50 times? if you aren't conditioned to it, you'll get worn out very quickly.

 
I agree there is way to muster and deal with the game as it is all I am saying is now there is much more room for improvement and a greater need for balance changes then there was in A16.
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Oh yea for sure I agree and I feel TFP's do too.

 
Using bows uses very little stamina, also the only deaths ive had early game have been from birds. I hate the birds. The stamina is a joke, unless all you do is power swing and stand still and take a hit. Jumping & sprinting eats too much stamina to use in combat
also hitting a tree 50 times with a small one handed axe like a hatchet, for the average person isn't something they can do. Maybe in theory, but i dont think you've actually hacked at a tree with an axe. If you're barely tapping it, sure! But 50 times? if you aren't conditioned to it, you'll get worn out very quickly.
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Ok maybe 50 is a bit much haha but still this guy in game can only hit it like 10 times tops and that repeats itself every time I need to hit something else which is the worst part. lol also yea I suppose we could limit ourselves to only use bows (no stamina usage) but now we are avoiding a huge amount of content (all melee) which is fun for me and many im sure. We are also avoiding the stamina problem all together we need the devs to hear this valid constructive criticism so they can do their magic and improve.

 
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The stamina system is on a good track, but it does need some work.

right now, you can't outrun a wild jim sterling in this game without running out of stamina. I also starved to death in one of the more recent alphas, on day one. While funny, it did make me take a break from the game for a bit.

I suspect that after a few more updates, they will get this system down pat. I like what they are going for: a survival horror game where you spend the days looting death traps, and the nights preparing for a massive weekly assault. It has the tension down.

 
The stamina system is on a good track, but it does need some work.
right now, you can't outrun a wild jim sterling in this game without running out of stamina. I also starved to death in one of the more recent alphas, on day one. While funny, it did make me take a break from the game for a bit.

I suspect that after a few more updates, they will get this system down pat. I like what they are going for: a survival horror game where you spend the days looting death traps, and the nights preparing for a massive weekly assault. It has the tension down.
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Please define "right now"

17.0 B240

or

17.1 B8

?

 
I also starved to death in one of the more recent alphas, on day one.
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I try not to suggest that people are playing wrong but what on earth did you do during that first day that you would starve to death? Power attack everything? Run everywhere? Fill every encumbrance slot?

I mean you can't even suffer from cold effects on hunger on Day One.

How did this happen?

 
I try not to suggest that people are playing wrong but what on earth did you do during that first day that you would starve to death? Power attack everything? Run everywhere? Fill every encumbrance slot?
I mean you can't even suffer from cold effects on hunger on Day One.

How did this happen?
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I concur with this question. Honestly, I thought they removed being able to starve to death lol.

 
I try not to suggest that people are playing wrong but what on earth did you do during that first day that you would starve to death? Power attack everything? Run everywhere? Fill every encumbrance slot?
I mean you can't even suffer from cold effects on hunger on Day One.

How did this happen?
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I am not entirely sure. Maybe this was a bug? there was a lot of running, and I also got food poisoning from the starting chili. I vividly remember this, because it was the first time i had ever starved to death in the game. Also i was attacking every zombie i saw for the xp.

 
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Considering realism is a common logical goal to achieve in a game like this
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No, it's not.

You are talking about something more of a simulation like SCUM. There you get to enjoy investigating the sugar or vitamin content of various foods to balance your diet or load individual bullets into a magazine before loading it into a weapon.

7DTD is a game so micromanaging such chores is intentionally glossed over.

Well I am referring to the stamina at the start of the game, I can only hit a block about 8 times with a very small one handed axe... An average man can swing that about 50 times in real life before being incapable.
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Posts that make up facts on a whim are a reason why "complaints are being ignored".

In b240 and at the start of the game I could chop down a 1200 HP tree with a stone axe and not run out of stamina.

In case anyone was wondering: this takes more than 8 hits.

And it gets crazier. After resting a mere 10 seconds or less I can do it all over again! That's barely more time than is needed to walk over to the next tree!

How many skill points, from A16 I am sure it was only 1. a couple skill points will not fix the cooking (I cant even cook corn for goodness sake) and debuff and stamina issues. Sorry I disagree.
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More precisely, you assume without having tried it.

You are intentionally making the game harder for yourself by ignoring the games suggestion (literally on the main screen) to complete the tutorial and then complain that it is too hard.

Hmm. Maybe the tutorial quest text on the main screen should be flashing permanently if you have >1 deaths without having completed it.

See? Your post may already have done some good! =)

cool idea but we are way too weak and should not have to learn to cook basic things. The debuffs are off the charts also. Not fun.
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You do not have to learn to cook basic things. You can boil water in a can, you can make charred meat on a campfire - all without any special tools or knowledge.

That debuffs "are no fun" is their whole point.

There are ways to deal with all of them and I'm not talking about having an infinite supply of antibiotics.

Example: The "cold" debuff.

Problem: You are cold.

Suggested solutions:

  1. Only do the obvious: Find and wear clothing.
  2. Apply the tips given to you you by
    • the game's loading screens
    • the debuff's very description
    • the game's journal entry specifically for cold weather
[*]Bring more food because you will be burning more calories.

[*]Buy a perk to increase your natural insulation.

[*]Use crafted or scavenged consumables.

[*]Go to the forum and ask for the game to be made easier.

If all but 6. are unacceptable then I can only suggest mods to disable weather survival or other challenges of the game.

I guess I'm more interested in how fresh players are seeing things. Speaking for myself, I know i can get caught into thinking "This is broken" when I"m really feeling "This is not how I used to do it"
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Someone was looking through the Steam reviews and found that the majority of negative ones were from players with high play times.

Strangely enough new players don't seem to have these huge problems...

In psychology this is called confirmation bias. It means that a new information which aligns with what you believe to be true is easily accepted as truth while anything challenging what you believe to be true is viewed with great skepticism - regardless of proof.

A17 changed what players knew to work in A16 and resisting such change is well documented to be human nature.

New players do not have this problem so they just... learn to play the game and prosper.

 
Also, AFAIK the Pain Tolerance perk is working just fine.

It's actually quite powerful.

 
Every survival game is trying to include weather mechanics now and every survival game is failing entirely at it.

I'm so sick of the terrible weather management that survival games as a whole are trying to do. I travel 3m and I go from blistering heat to hypothermia. Just stop. Just make it a simple equipment check and apply a debuff when the equipment check fails.

 
See, what i love about this game: Building awesome bases, exploring the new pois, the difficulty.

So on one level, i like the hunger and hypothermia mechanics. The desert and the snow biome should be end game biomes, and they feel like end game biomes.

But on another level, the hunger and the stamina interfere with the fun things about the game. I see the logic behind wanting to make steel and concrete end game things, as the big problem with a lot of survival games is the lack of end game. But at the same time would it be better to make more end game content then to just gate things off?

With minecraft, people solved this problem with mods. Thaumcraft had a great quest system, and Dragon block c made combat fun.

But what is the end game with 7 days? Why bother living past a month? What is the point? This is the only game that makes me ask that question, and i play the crap out of kenshi and minecraft. It is weird. Best crafting, combat is better, fun looting, but my interest gets drained after mid game.

The quest system is the right start for fixing this problem, and adds far more content and time then gating. What would help a lot would be more end game quests and a reputation system. I would also like to see some more crazy stuff, like have that plane crash one loot drop day, and having to rescue the survivors and keep them safe and well fed for a few weeks.

I also want to see special blood moon quests: quests that make blood moon harder, or cause special zombies to show up, or requiring building loud speakers to "aggro the zombies so that the other survivors can do stuff at night", that would be neat.

 
No, it's not.You are talking about something more of a simulation like SCUM. There you get to enjoy investigating the sugar or vitamin content of various foods to balance your diet or load individual bullets into a magazine before loading it into a weapon.

7DTD is a game so micromanaging such chores is intentionally glossed over.

Posts that make up facts on a whim are a reason why "complaints are being ignored".

In b240 and at the start of the game I could chop down a 1200 HP tree with a stone axe and not run out of stamina.

In case anyone was wondering: this takes more than 8 hits.

And it gets crazier. After resting a mere 10 seconds or less I can do it all over again! That's barely more time than is needed to walk over to the next tree!

More precisely, you assume without having tried it.

You are intentionally making the game harder for yourself by ignoring the games suggestion (literally on the main screen) to complete the tutorial and then complain that it is too hard.

Hmm. Maybe the tutorial quest text on the main screen should be flashing permanently if you have >1 deaths without having completed it.

See? Your post may already have done some good! =)

You do not have to learn to cook basic things. You can boil water in a can, you can make charred meat on a campfire - all without any special tools or knowledge.

That debuffs "are no fun" is their whole point.

There are ways to deal with all of them and I'm not talking about having an infinite supply of antibiotics.

Example: The "cold" debuff.

Problem: You are cold.

Suggested solutions:

  1. Only do the obvious: Find and wear clothing.
  2. Apply the tips given to you you by
    • the game's loading screens
    • the debuff's very description
    • the game's journal entry specifically for cold weather
[*]Bring more food because you will be burning more calories.

[*]Buy a perk to increase your natural insulation.

[*]Use crafted or scavenged consumables.

[*]Go to the forum and ask for the game to be made easier.

If all but 6. are unacceptable then I can only suggest mods to disable weather survival or other challenges of the game.

Someone was looking through the Steam reviews and found that the majority of negative ones were from players with high play times.

Strangely enough new players don't seem to have these huge problems...

In psychology this is called confirmation bias. It means that a new information which aligns with what you believe to be true is easily accepted as truth while anything challenging what you believe to be true is viewed with great skepticism - regardless of proof.

A17 changed what players knew to work in A16 and resisting such change is well documented to be human nature.

New players do not have this problem so they just... learn to play the game and prosper.
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See this game is a good game I am not trying to down it and I thank you for your time and effort to reply to me. I am trying to open peoples eyes especially the people who need to see what could be even more fun. Lets look at it like this there are more things that negatively impact gameplay then positively in the latest version. I mean sure it is based on opinion but I have played a lot of games and this one paints a clear picture (mainly in the beginning that your guy is a weakling). There needs to be less effects and debuffs that make your guy weak this would balance it. We do have the buffs already for 30 minutes but with the current health and stamina degenerating over time it ruins the game.

Here is a few things that make you feel weak: Max health and max stamina DEGENERATION!

Your guy gets stunned almost every other hit from a zombie this is a weak feeling, if you combine the need of hitting zombies and your max stamina degenerating (going down just by playing) then after an hour or so unless you found the cooking pot after entering a house with food poisoning then you have no health and no stamina either... we are talking 25 stamina to work with... this is why I am saying I can not swing at a tree sometimes only 4 times. Wow that makes me very weak.

Maybe get rid of the need to learn to cook corn and the cooking chef skill all together, or get rid of the cooking pot because yes there are many but you have to survive with nothing and defeat like 10 zombies in your first house to hopefully find one.

The food poisoning, near death experience, need to learn how to cook corn?? or other basic foods?? Sure I like improving your skills but there are about 10-15 zombies per house. The "Normal difficulty" to me should be called realistic/weak guy. yes again this is my opinion however looking at the game subjectively I do not see how I am wrong your guy is weak and if the other reasons to convince you then stamina and health degeneration has to... This does not happen in real life, you don't get weak while not eating for a couple of hours. Sure this is a game but come on I cant play I cant do anything with 25 stamina. Sure I can drink water but it doesn't fix the maximum quick at all and I am pretty sure I have to max my thirst requirement to 100 percent for it even to go back up. Sure after 3 or 4 hours your guy is close to normal but thats alot of time to expect a player to hold on wanting fun from a game they just started.

 
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Hi to clarify why I am posting is to simply help the players like the game more because I want to see it last and I absolutely love it. I just wish the recent patches were not to make it harder but instead maybe include more equipment like more machines to mine and dig or more guns. Harder bosses with tons of experience and loot for example.

 
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