PC please don't cater to the HC crowd

It’s only weird if your focus is 100% on earning points. Just play the game and do what you would normally do in such a situation. Focus on securing food and shelter and protective clothing and weapons. Don’t kill every zombie. There is no law that says you must get to level X by Day Y.
Naturally you can't expect the player to restrain himself, or avoid killing zombies just because the gamestage will rise. The temp fix would be balancing the xp sources (which you said they are looking into atm and that's great - and as I was saying for about a 100 times before A17 that makes me believe I have some kind of clairvoyance superpower of common sense /s).

As for the gamestages depending again partially on time, Gazz, your thoughts on my reply to you here? https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?96277-Why-A17-matches-more-than-my-expectations&p=883335#post883335

 
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@baddream

Agreed, and with the new Rwg system, it wouldn't be that difficult to create a "new player map" that does just that.

I remember that being discussed a while back, so that might be the plan.

A little 1k map that starts you off in a poi, where an npc explains things and sends you on missions to get through the first 2 days.

Completely doable.

 
New players should turn off spawning and just play it as a straight nonfantasy survival game for a few days. Then turn zombies on at Scavenger level. It’s how I started a long time ago. They just have to overcome their ego to do it.
oddly thats how i played the game when the first few alphas came out and you got xp doing everything. but in this mode.. would they get xp for hunting animals? because then, yeah they could level up by hunting down resources. or learn the game by being on a no-zed game and then starting a new game with zeds. but again, this will only work if xp is gained through other means than killing zeds.

btw i'm level 49 and the perk to unlock a forge still says i'm not high enough level, so how would this work even? i mean, even us experienced players do not understand what level we have to be at to unlock the sciences.

what i would really like to see, to make the game a bit more balanced and role playing, is the ability to select 1 path right upfront. so say when you create your character and start a map you get to select a skill tree to start with, say intelligence or science (ideally all of them are purchasable by perks, but you get to select only 1 skill tree at start up) and you can learn the others later by buying perks. so you can start out with the ability to cook or forge or be good with weapons. and other players would be able to select the other skills. just like other RPGS. and you can learn say building a forge, from a recipe, or making a food or meal, from a recipe.

so to illustrate, i could start out as a cook because before the apocalypse i was a cook. but i need a recipe to actually cook more than basic level foods. BTU, if i want ot learn any other skill, i have to builds up skill points and buy them through XP like we have now. this means i would have to learn to make arrows through perks, learn to use tools, learn to use weapons, learn to be an athlete. (so if someone else picks up a recipe, they cannot learn it unless they have purchased the perk for that level. )

so another player can choose to be good with weapons and be a weapon smith, right away they can make crude weapons for people or teach them how to use a bow (make a book for other players to learn) but they would suck at making tools or cooking and cannot do this stuff without the perk system.

this would make it balanced. and yes, it is a lot like crafting undead legacy.

but it would also be nice to have more than one character too, so those of us who play solo can manage the other crafting, but we've also have to manage other characters too.

 
Lower the difficulty?
Nothing to do with difficulty. I actually find killing zombies easier and faster than in a16. Powerattacks to the head own them even with a wood club.

But, like OP, I feel like I have to fight and fight and fight all the time. Not hard, just boring. I want to explore, gather and build defenses. But theres just an endless amount of zombies. Well, thats one thing, the other is that their xp is so much bigger, and the level gating makes xp som important, that not killingzombies seems like wasting time.

The funpimps are moving the focus of the game too much into just killing zombies, instead of exploring, gathering and building defenses.

 
Nothing to do with difficulty. I actually find killing zombies easier and faster than in a16. Powerattacks to the head own them even with a wood club.
But, like OP, I feel like I have to fight and fight and fight all the time. Not hard, just boring. I want to explore, gather and build defenses. But theres just an endless amount of zombies. Well, thats one thing, the other is that their xp is so much bigger, and the level gating makes xp som important, that not killingzombies seems like wasting time.

The funpimps are moving the focus of the game too much into just killing zombies, instead of exploring, gathering and building defenses.
I believe non horde night zombie spawns are at the same number in A17 in A16...pretty sure a dev said that. You are seeing a difference?

- - - Updated - - -

You're equivocating.... not in any thread. At least not in any appreciable numbers.
Its too easy

 
Roland your solution is for new players...never having played the game and not knowing anything ,to turn the zombies off in a zombie game so they can learn things more easily? shouldnt they be able to ...you know... just expect that default mode is actually playable by a new player without any experience?

 
@slicks: There was no xp at all until A11 and then it was only to improve your gear but maybe that’s when you started.

As for earning XP you do earn it from doing all sorts of things—even crafting xp is back again from A15 though it diminishes to zero when crafting the same thing. That little xp icon is constantly in my lower right corner when I’m not killing zombies. Sure, the most efficient way to get xp is to kill zombies but it is by no means the only way.

@Rest: Rubbish. If I can play without regard to xp efficiency farming then I can expect others to do the same. All this talk of the game forcing them to level up by only killing zombies is laughable. It’s great that the devs plan to balance it better but even after that the choice to find the new best method of leveling up quickly if it isn’t still killing zombies is still just a choice.

 
@Rest: Rubbish. If I can play without regard to xp efficiency farming then I can expect others to do the same.
Have you tried leveling in the game without zombies? How much days it took you to unlock forge? Get a bicycle? I am not complaining for myself. I am questioning your advice to the new players, who would probably be turned off by the grindy experience, if they follow your advice.

 
You're equivocating.... not in any thread. At least not in any appreciable numbers.
A17 is harder than A16 but I wouldn’t say it’s hard or impossible at the default difficulty level. I did not have any problems clearing POIs but I did find the noise detection range of wandering zombies to be annoying. In my first play through I focused on looting specific items and ignored zombies where I could. In my next play through I will be actively seeking them out. That said I do think the default difficulty level should be changed from nomad to adventurer.

 
Lower difficulty should not just be a simple damage calculation change (more damage by the player, less by Z)
The damage could even stay about the same.

It should rather balance the game to spawn differently
It does. Difficulty setting directly feeds the gamestage calculation which directly affects zombies spawn types, number and damage.

 
I believe non horde night zombie spawns are at the same number in A17 in A16...pretty sure a dev said that. You are seeing a difference?
No idea about night zombies, I like to find a cozy plaze at night and level by craft... oh wait that was before a16, and dig, cook and look at skills.

But during the day, they sure spawn like crazy. Ive seen them spawn near me much more than when it was reported as a sleeper bug on a16.

 
Roland your solution is for new players...never having played the game and not knowing anything ,to turn the zombies off in a zombie game so they can learn things more easily? shouldnt they be able to ...you know... just expect that default mode is actually playable by a new player without any experience?
Who says it isn’t? Most complaints I’ve heard are from seasoned players who can’t or don’t want to adjust their playstyle from A16. Some new players will be fine and some won’t and those who can’t handle it can do as I did and mess with the options. I was a new player and figured it out. But it sounds as though they plan to make some changes. It still won’t be as easy as A16 was.

 
oddly thats how i played the game when the first few alphas came out and you got xp doing everything. but in this mode.. would they get xp for hunting animals? because then, yeah they could level up by hunting down resources. or learn the game by being on a no-zed game and then starting a new game with zeds. but again, this will only work if xp is gained through other means than killing zeds.
btw i'm level 49 and the perk to unlock a forge still says i'm not high enough level, so how would this work even? i mean, even us experienced players do not understand what level we have to be at to unlock the sciences.
Hover over the lock icon in the perks menu to see what the requirements are. You need to be player level 20 and intellect 4 to unlock the forge.

Also, iron armor isn’t strictly better than leather armor in A17. Armor has penalties now. There are actual differences between light and heavy armor other than damage resistance.

 
Actually, by focusing on leveling up as quickly as you can you are the one pushing the arms race and increasing the difficulty of blood moon faster than you can keep up. You are inflating your gamestage. If you would do some of those other activities that bring in less xp but help your ability to survive then your gamestage will stay lower longer and you’ll find yourself in a better position to fight. You definitely are never forced to hunt zombies and by doing so just to level up faster you are engineering your own demise.
Here’s an example...take a day and work to get a full set of leather armor killing as few zombies as possible. Armor makes a big difference in A17 and if you wear it you will find you are much harder to kill. By doing this you have jumped ahead of game’s curve without spending a single perk or going up in level.

I think too many don’t realize what problems they create for themselves by trying to speed progress.
That's exactly how I've been playing, only taking on wandering hordes that are going to destroy my base, I actively try to avoid zombies, deliberately so I don't level very quickly as I know full well I won't have the resources to fight the blood moon horde if I don't - just started day 21 now and my game stage is at 72 and level 35.

I've actually been cursing the wandering hordes now that come just before the 7 day horde as I work on my base I do not want to gain any levels before the horde starts.

I've noticed some people are near gamestage 100 before day 14! Though I do still think the gamestages should be dialed back a touch (I still got cops on day 14 even though I'm playing it safe), and not by lowering the difficulty, I like the tough zombies to fight one on one, I just don't want the hordes to obliterate me.

 
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A17 is harder than A16 but I wouldn’t say it’s hard or impossible at the default difficulty level. I did not have any problems clearing POIs but I did find the noise detection range of wandering zombies to be annoying. In my first play through I focused on looting specific items and ignored zombies where I could. In my next play through I will be actively seeking them out. That said I do think the default difficulty level should be changed from nomad to adventurer.
Don't misunderstand, my point was that Roland claimed that when some claim its too easy and some claim its too hard then the balance is probably about right. I was just pointing out that the vast majority of posts are about it being too hard... so maybe the balance is too skewed to difficult.

 
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