PC please don't cater to the HC crowd

This won't help the OP. His problem (and I completely agree with him) is that EVERYTHING in the game now revolves around Perks. This means that Experience is all that matters. Since doing activities doesn't increase anything about your character unless those activities happen to give Experience, the player is forced to perform those activities which give the most Experience. Right now, this is killing Zombies. Nothing else comes close. Easy difficulty or not, the OP is now forced to hunt down and kill zombies CONSTANTLY if he wants to level up and stay ahead of the arms race and horde night. This is garbage design.
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As mentioned, TFP is looking into the relative settings of XP returns for various activities. I think it's pretty clear that, right now, zombie kills are, relative to other options, OP for XP. The extra-balance trick will be in deciding whether Zombie XP gets lowered, or other activity XP gets increased....

 
Earned through grinding? Effort exerted kiting hundreds of zombies with beginner weapons?
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I expect some grinding in practically any game i've ever played. Anyone familiar with MMO's at all can attest to the amount of grinding sometimes required for good rewards.

I'm not saying that you should have to kite hundreds of zombies for some small reward, or that killing them should be the best or most productive means of generating xp. It's been stated elsewhere in the forum that apparently, TFP are looking at that already. I'm also not saying that there should be *excessive* grinding. I'm saying there should be a good balance, but that some grinding isn't a huge problem for most people.

 
As mentioned, TFP is looking into the relative settings of XP returns for various activities. I think it's pretty clear that, right now, zombie kills are, relative to other options, OP for XP. The extra-balance trick will be in deciding whether Zombie XP gets lowered, or other activity XP gets increased....
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I really think it would be a good idea to only lower the former AKA make a single level harder to get, while lowering level locks, virtually keeping the same progression rate pace time-wise.

 
I really think it would be a good idea to only lower the former AKA make a single level harder to get, while lowering level locks, virtually keeping the same progression rate pace time-wise.
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We allready left the borders of a playable startgame. So i dont know what to say

A: Wuut you want me to grind even longer until my char is playable

B: Sure, make it so that the player can level only one Level per real week. It doesnt matter, i will never again play the startgame

Really can we have a masochist option, and for us others make the startgame playable

 
We allready left the borders of a playable startgame. So i dont know what to sayA: Wuut you want me to grind even longer until my char is playable

B: Sure, make it so that the player can level only one Level per real week. It doesnt matter, i will never again play the startgame

Really can we have a masochist option, and for us others make the startgame playable
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You don't seem to get it. If they do that (make levels harder to get) while lowering level locks, you will be getting a forge with a lower gamestage scaling! Plus people won't feel as restricted by having many points and falling into "walls" (psychology 101). Time/pace-wise nothing has to change.

If, you belong to the crowd that wants to craft steel/iron at day 1-2, then sorry, but it was already explained in many threads that this is not how the game was supposed to work in the first place.

 
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This won't help the OP. His problem (and I completely agree with him) is that EVERYTHING in the game now revolves around Perks. This means that Experience is all that matters. Since doing activities doesn't increase anything about your character unless those activities happen to give Experience, the player is forced to perform those activities which give the most Experience. Right now, this is killing Zombies. Nothing else comes close. Easy difficulty or not, the OP is now forced to hunt down and kill zombies CONSTANTLY if he wants to level up and stay ahead of the arms race and horde night. This is garbage design.
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Actually, by focusing on leveling up as quickly as you can you are the one pushing the arms race and increasing the difficulty of blood moon faster than you can keep up. You are inflating your gamestage. If you would do some of those other activities that bring in less xp but help your ability to survive then your gamestage will stay lower longer and you’ll find yourself in a better position to fight. You definitely are never forced to hunt zombies and by doing so just to level up faster you are engineering your own demise.

Here’s an example...take a day and work to get a full set of leather armor killing as few zombies as possible. Armor makes a big difference in A17 and if you wear it you will find you are much harder to kill. By doing this you have jumped ahead of game’s curve without spending a single perk or going up in level.

I think too many don’t realize what problems they create for themselves by trying to speed progress.

 
Actually, by focusing on leveling up as quickly as you can you are the one pushing the arms race and increasing the difficulty of blood moon faster than you can keep up. You are inflating your gamestage. If you would do some of those other activities that bring in less xp but help your ability to survive then your gamestage will stay lower longer and you’ll find yourself in a better position to fight. You definitely are never forced to hunt zombies and by doing so just to level up faster you are engineering your own demise.
Here’s an example...take a day and work to get a full set of leather armor killing as few zombies as possible. Armor makes a big difference in A17 and if you wear it you will find you are much harder to kill. By doing this you have jumped ahead of game’s curve without spending a single perk or going up in level.

I think too many don’t realize what problems they create for themselves by trying to speed progress.
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This is so true, but I dont know if its a good mechanic or not, I really dont. it might be, but, tying not to kill zombies to make the game easier feels weird in a way.

Id almost want your gamestage to be based solely of days survived and difficulty level, which im sure has its own problems.

 
You don't seem to get it. If they do that (make levels harder to get) while lowering level locks, you will be getting a forge with a lower gamestage scaling! Plus people won't feel as restricted by having many points and falling into "walls" (psychology 101). Time/pace-wise nothing has to change.
If, you belong to the crowd that wants to craft steel/iron at day 1-2, then sorry, but it was already explained in many threads that this is not how the game was supposed to work in the first place.
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i am now lvl 44, means 49 Skillpoints, and SLOWLY the character is playable.

(Single player Death is Death game, vanilla)

The only thing i wish is more Stamina. (and the bike i have now)

And i hope the auger can be modefied to 4x more power, 15m tunnel through sand and i was out of fuel

Finally i need no forge if i have a few traders

 
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i am now lvl 44, means 49 Skillpoints, and SLOWLY the character is playable.The only thing i wish is more Stamina. (and the bike i have now)

And i hope the auger can be modefied to 4x more power, 15m tunnel through sand and i was out of fuel

Finally i need no forge if i have a few traders
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Forge was just an example, what I mentioned affects anything that is level gated. Yes the auger is undertuned especially compared to the saw.

 
I think too many don’t realize what problems they create for themselves by trying to speed progress.
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I see what you're saying, and i'm on board with it. It's worth pointing out, however, that it can be a bit rough trying to gather resources or loot locations of their best stuff without running up the body count. Once sleeper spawn rates have been addressed, i'm sure this kind of gameplay would be easier to achieve.

Not saying it's impossible now, but certainly easier said than done at some point.

 
Actually, by focusing on leveling up as quickly as you can you are the one pushing the arms race and increasing the difficulty of blood moon faster than you can keep up. You are inflating your gamestage. If you would do some of those other activities that bring in less xp but help your ability to survive then your gamestage will stay lower longer and you’ll find yourself in a better position to fight. You definitely are never forced to hunt zombies and by doing so just to level up faster you are engineering your own demise.
Here’s an example...take a day and work to get a full set of leather armor killing as few zombies as possible. Armor makes a big difference in A17 and if you wear it you will find you are much harder to kill. By doing this you have jumped ahead of game’s curve without spending a single perk or going up in level.

I think too many don’t realize what problems they create for themselves by trying to speed progress.
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i guess i got lucky by finding armor early on and not having to make it. I totally skipped the leather armor stage by finding level 3 iron and steel armor on day 3. by combining that with a lot of crouching and sniping with eh compound level 2 bow i found on day 4, the games been easy. I'm level 49 on day 23 and have just started considering settling down to build a base.

 
I agree with OP

A17 is about the removal of almost all choice.

Want XP while building? No (frame block upgrade only)

Want XP from mining? Not really... a few points but you will never advance in the game towards new perks. Oh, and good luck finding resources anyway.

Want XP from trading? Less things are worth anything, and XP is less too. Enjoy

Want XP from crafting? Nope

Want XP? Kill Zs, that is it. Enjoy all your options.

Want to build? Zs destroy blocks way faster making it almost worthless to build or upgrade

Want to build? Material harvesting is slower and your stamina is ♥♥♥♥

Want to build? It will take you 2-3 times as long to level to concrete and steel, and that is if you don't make a balanced character.

Want to build? Even many wooded blocks are gated behind the workbench, and heck those are just aesthetic.

Want to build? No we didn't think so.

Want to travel? You stamina is ♥♥♥♥

Want to travel? The map is smaller

Want to travel? The snow and desert biomes are bigger blobs and your clothing doesn't really protect you any more (please refer back to stamina)

Want to travel? Maybe one day, after a hundred real hours, you will have a "new" motorized toy. Better not restart your game.

Want to travel? So much more fun!

Want to kill Zs? We have you covered

Want to kill Zs? We have turned it into the grind mechanism... basically like turning you hobby into your dayjob. Kind of takes the fun out of it.

Want to play alone? No you don't

Want to play alone? PIO are balanced for Multi-enjoy

Want to play alone? Leveling to get you what you need for mid-game should only take 20-30 hours real time.

Want to play alone? Git Good! Be a real "man"! You sux! Whiner.

Have any issue with A17? Prepared to be shouted down by a vocal minority.

Have any issue with A17? It is just experimental/beta/alpha/Tuesday... stop expecting things.

Have any issue with A17? They will tell you to mod (of course you can't mod individually if you are joining multi; see playing alone above)

Want to build a stilt house? Nope

Want to build underground? Nope

Want to build in a POI? Zs will chew through it like swiss cheese

Want to choose a different POI for Zs to destroy each 7 day? Wow, what a fun game with choices!

Show me one Z movie or comic where Zs destroy like the do in A17. Steel doors in 5 minutes: gone. Steel walls in 3 minutes: gone. Meter thick reinforced concrete slabs: Gone before I finished this sentence.

Want to restart a new game? Do you really want the initial grind? It's won;t be nearly as fun the second time.

I DO NOT HATE A17... but for the greatness it adds, TFP also added a year of spite against a community that found ways to "beat" their game. I do not enjoy many of the changes because they add grind and decrease choice. It decreases the variety of play styles. It forces Multi-player. And finally, I believe it takes away fun for a MAJORITY of the players. And finally...

 
I see what you're saying, and i'm on board with it. It's worth pointing out, however, that it can be a bit rough trying to gather resources or loot locations of their best stuff without running up the body count.
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Yeah, but some players go out of their way to kill every zombie there is. =)

 
The game continues to be made more difficult on default settings because experienced hardcore gamers keep asking for it. New players know nothing about the game and the tutorial does not tell new players how to do most things. I watch new players on twitch and its an absolute disaster and you can hear the pain and frustration till they just rage quit. Easy mode needs to be so easy a child can play it. New players will not mod the game nor should they be expected to. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. Experienced players that want a harder experience can and do mod the game to make it harder as it should be because they are experienced. The game is far too difficult at default settings . Yes we get that it should be a hard game BUT were basing it off of our own years and years of experience. A new player knows nothingggg about how things work in 7 days to die and it isnt like other games so its a huge learning curve. It needs to be made super easy for them and then they can ramp up the difficulty from there...not play 3 hours and rage and hate the game and wonder why a developer would set customers up to have a crappy experience and have to figure out how to turn settings down.

 
This is so true, but I dont know if its a good mechanic or not, I really dont. it might be, but, tying not to kill zombies to make the game easier feels weird in a way.
Id almost want your gamestage to be based solely of days survived and difficulty level, which im sure has its own problems.
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It’s only weird if your focus is 100% on earning points. Just play the game and do what you would normally do in such a situation. Focus on securing food and shelter and protective clothing and weapons. Don’t kill every zombie. There is no law that says you must get to level X by Day Y.

 
The game continues to be made more difficult on default settings because experienced hardcore gamers keep asking for it. New players know nothing about the game and the tutorial does not tell new players how to do most things. I watch new players on twitch and its an absolute disaster and you can hear the pain and frustration till they just rage quit. Easy mode needs to be so easy a child can play it. New players will not mod the game nor should they be expected to. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. Experienced players that want a harder experience can and do mod the game to make it harder as it should be because they are experienced. The game is far too difficult at default settings . Yes we get that it should be a hard game BUT were basing it off of our own years and years of experience. A new player knows nothingggg about how things work in 7 days to die and it isnt like other games so its a huge learning curve. It needs to be made super easy for them and then they can ramp up the difficulty from there...not play 3 hours and rage and hate the game and wonder why a developer would set customers up to have a crappy experience and have to figure out how to turn settings down.
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New players should turn off spawning and just play it as a straight nonfantasy survival game for a few days. Then turn zombies on at Scavenger level. It’s how I started a long time ago. They just have to overcome their ego to do it.

 
If we have folks complaining the game is too easy and others complaining it's too hard then it's probably close to where it needs to be.
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Sounds about right.... now, is anyone complaining that A17 is too easy?

 
New players should turn off spawning and just play it as a straight nonfantasy survival game for a few days. Then turn zombies on at Scavenger level. It’s how I started a long time ago. They just have to overcome their ego to do it.
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Not sure if this is a good advice. After all, without zeds, leveling would be a real problem for them. Its frightening to even imagine how much grind they would have to do, to just learn the forge recipe :D

 
It’s only weird if your focus is 100% on earning points. Just play the game and do what you would normally do in such a situation. Focus on securing food and shelter and protective clothing and weapons. Don’t kill every zombie. There is no law that says you must get to level X by Day Y.
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cannot secure shelter.. ever.. zombies shred through everything like they are fueled by radiation and steroids. I havnt found a single working crafting station thus far and I've come across several. The bike takes damage going up ramps on bridges and wont go up inclines at all. can even effectively clear out POi's for temp bases because zombies continue to respawn copies of themselves. so you can clear a room, turn around and they are back. or they spawn 4 or 5 copies of the same zombie and you thought you killed them, but really it was a stack of the same zombie spawning on the same spot. or they dont spawn until up to 5 minutes after you've been in the room crouched in a corner. I've lost everything 3 times on easy mode on a navasgene map because the zombies, even when i am not in the building, come demolish it while i'

m watching them.

 
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