PC please don't cater to the HC crowd

After years of watching some of my favorite games go from hardcore survival to a simplified mess due to complaining players it is quite refreshing to finally see it swing the other way.
Im all for these changes. There are dozens of other survival games out there being ruined by fair weather devs who are catering to the loudest complainers. My question is WHY is it SO wrong to want a challenge while you play. It seems like the only people who suffer in gaming today ARE the hardcore crowd. All their games get nerfed to hell over time.

Like it was mentioned before lower the difficulty and mod the game so that things spawn...less.
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Why is it SO wrong for the OP to want the game the way they want it? Why can’t you turn the difficulty up and mod your game so that things spawn ... more?

 
Lower difficulty should not just be a simple damage calculation change (more damage by the player, less by Z)

The damage could even stay about the same.

It should rather balance the game to spawn differently:

Less "special" Zombies like Cops. More loot. Less sleeper Zombies overall. Less damage by vultures.

Faster XP Gain. Less duration of death penalty debuff.

This should make it more enjoyable for players who want less hardcore action, without changin the gameplay much.

 
Why is it SO wrong for the OP to want the game the way they want it? Why can’t you turn the difficulty up and mod your game so that things spawn ... more?
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EVERYONE needs to be prepared to mod the game the way they want. The devs are going to create the game according to their own set of preferences primarily. They may soften some of the edges based on feedback but for the most part if your own preferences don't line up with the devs then expect to mod the game.

If we have folks complaining the game is too easy and others complaining it's too hard then it's probably close to where it needs to be.

 
The only problem I have is how easily bases get destroyed. Pretty much guaranteed death at the start.

But I'm sure it will get balanced in the next few builds to make basic forts viable vs 6 zombies.

If not I'll just either log out of server for horde night,ride a bike or drink alcohol like all good post-apocalyptic folks.

 
Why is it SO wrong for the OP to want the game the way they want it? Why can’t you turn the difficulty up and mod your game so that things spawn ... more?
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Because I HAVE been doing that for three years.

Its his turn.

 
Agree with OP.

In this version the grind is interminable, bases are nonviable and the fun is mostly gone. I don't think these changes were all as intended by Joel but through all the feedback there has been a mob of browbeaters who like the suck and tell us that 10 hours to get a forge is fine.

 
Agree with OP.
In this version the grind is interminable, bases are nonviable and the fun is mostly gone. I don't think these changes were all as intended by Joel but through all the feedback there has been a mob of browbeaters who like the suck and tell us that 10 hours to get a forge is fine.
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Honestly, i'm fine with punishing difficulty and not getting the forge right off the bat. Most of the people who agree with that just think that getting a forge running 10 minutes into the game and having the best of everything well before day 7 seems a bit much. Some think things should be earned, or that it's *survival* and it shouldn't be cakewalk (at least, right at the very start). I understand and agree with most of that. I just started the "Freeton" map from the seed thread, and turned difficulty to Warrior/lowered drop rates/spread air drops to 7 days from 3, etc. If that seems to be too much i'll dial it back, but i genuinely *want* a challenge. Could go on, but you get the idea. :)

However...

I also think the OP was somewhat right. While some issues are going to be addressed in coming patches (at least, i'd hope so), i think the suggestions around the board about slider bars or selections to augment difficulty, spawn rates, and other things the OP is concerned about is the right thing to do. It gives people the option to play as casual, or as grueling, as they see fit and doesn't harm the experience overall. Everyone wins.

Right now, i'm just reserving my judgment on things until the current issues are addressed, but that's going to be a few weeks. In the meantime, i can just see how it goes and hope i don't have 4 bears and 4 dogs spawn as a wandering horde right outside my base..........

 
Yes i got a wolf horde, they made their way through a house to get to me, silent as well, trapping me in a tight spot. Me clearing out the house carefully and quietly was pointless. If i died because i fell through a floor into a pit of zombies, i wouldnt mind, but sending a wolf horde into a house on a 3rd day was a cheap shot by developers to make this game difficult.

 
Yes i got a wolf horde, they made their way through a house to get to me, silent as well, trapping me in a tight spot. Me clearing out the house carefully and quietly was pointless. If i died because i fell through a floor into a pit of zombies, i wouldnt mind, but sending a wolf horde into a house on a 3rd day was a cheap shot by developers to make this game difficult.
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Question, did you close up the hole you entered through?

 
Question, did you close up the hole you entered through?
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You mean a mansion, with multiple entries, and a maze like layout, no, I didn't expect a bunch of intelligent wolves to come in silently, on 3rd day.

 
OK. Yeah even in a16 I got into the habit of plugging open holes after more than a few of those obnoxious heat-seeking little girls followed me into a building and blindsided me. I later found it helps a lot with horde spawns (especially wolves). Single upgraded wood frames and a door or two = peace of mind. :)

 
OK. Yeah even in a16 I got into the habit of plugging open holes after more than a few of those obnoxious heat-seeking little girls followed me into a building and blindsided me. I later found it helps a lot with horde spawns (especially wolves). Single upgraded wood frames and a door or two = peace of mind. :)
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It was just a looting session, didn't expect wolves indoors, to be honest, and if I did that to every building I visited, it would be a day wasted. but like I said, its a cheap trick by developers to try to make this game hard, its not like I had guns blazing and making so much noise to draw wolves into town. What is the point in playing the game, using melee, when you can have a random event like that to screw up your progression.

 
It was just a looting session, didn't expect wolves indoors, to be honest, and if I did that to every building I visited, it would be a day wasted. but like I said, its a cheap trick by developers to try to make this game hard, its not like I had guns blazing and making so much noise to draw wolves into town. What is the point in playing the game, using melee, when you can have a random event like that to screw up your progression.
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Oh, definitely, I much preferred the a16 "tangent approach" of hordes, where if you just quietly sat they'd miss you by like 20m (and then you could go farm them... but hey :) )

 
i genuinely *want* a challenge.
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So does *everyone*.

But an extended grind isn't a challenge, it's just very dull. Levelgates don't add challenge, if you can kill one zombie, you can kill 10 and a hundred and so forth, you can wait out a night on a disposable POI, you can wait out another 5 or 10. But it isn't fun.

The game should allow you to get ahead of the curve by making smart choices, looting dangerous POIs, getting lucky etc. But it doesn't. All it rewards is doing time.

 
Oh, definitely, I much preferred the a16 "tangent approach" of hordes, where if you just quietly sat they'd miss you by like 20m (and then you could go farm them... but hey :) )
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Seen exactly the same happen in a17, actually worse, they would just pop up 30m away and just spread out a little like a liquid and that was it. They weren't even moving anywhere, were neither on a tangential nor radial trajectory.

 
So does *everyone*.
But an extended grind isn't a challenge, it's just very dull. Levelgates don't add challenge, if you can kill one zombie, you can kill 10 and a hundred and so forth, you can wait out a night on a disposable POI, you can wait out another 5 or 10. But it isn't fun.

The game should allow you to get ahead of the curve by making smart choices, looting dangerous POIs, getting lucky etc. But it doesn't. All it rewards is doing time.
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I disagree. There are plenty of people who are making complaints (not all, mind you) about the fact that they want things how they were, when stamina could basically last forever and everyone had steel tools and max guns before day 7. People who want forges 5 minutes after the game starts, because why not. Some people want it easy and coast to victory. It's not that there aren't legitimate concerns and reasons to make changes to what's been provided in a17 so far. But saying everyone wants a challenge is stretching credulity, i think.

The grind aspect though is completely subjective. Some parts of it, i think, are fun in some way or another. I personally like killing a ton of zombies. I also really like crafting (though i'm not a great builder, if we're being honest). It's not that i don't understand where you're coming from, but i also think that some things should be earned, not just given. We can adjust the xp for building vs kills, we can take about changing how gated skills work (though part of me likes it, and thinks people should have to at least make some effort to get the good stuff). But if i said the game was actually fun for me, and you don't think the same, does that make me wrong or just someone who enjoys what's offered?

I absolutely agree that the game should reward good choices, give better things based on risk/reward levels, and absolutely have a little luck involved in everything. But i likewise believe that those things shouldn't be available by the end of day 1, or in some cases even the first week or two. I just think some things should be earned, and effort should be exerted. I'd also absolutely support your choice to play differently, and i've mentioned earlier about having sliders, more options in game generation, etc so that every one of those things is manageable without having to mod the game.

 
I think the difficulty itself is fine

But

* Skillpoints are really scarce the first 30 Levels most you need to spend in basics, in fact i am arround 20 too short now at lvl 42

Means you meet Fearals when your damage skills are mostly down

* Stamina is better now at 42 But the first 30 level are a nightmare. There is no way to make your character playing fluid

Instead you are simply ALLWAYS out of Stamina. Drunk over 50 Coffee until now and still spend much time by waiting for the bar. No need to say that yo are simply death if you normally would choose to escape, no way without stamina

* In A16 i/(we) asked for 8 more slots to make the game playable, sure we get tese more slots, and a encumber system. So the startgame you are even more restricted, leads for me to having Loot boxes all over the map. If you use all slots you will die and move with 1 Km/h!

Now with a bike i can carry my stuff and my issue is much smaller. And far later with a car and full skill i guess it will be a nice game

* and finally, Digging zombies.

Really, i have no idea how to build a base with them. Until now it looks at least so as if the normal zombies dont attack you if you dig underground during nights. But still the minimum of steelblocks i expect to need to buils a tower socket that can resist a later Bloodmoon horde is 864 and this is only a 3 thick wall arround a 5x5 room, 6 high. Means instead of building a tower as in A16 i have a small stone horde tower (that works because of cheesing the ai) and a small garden.

Thats the issues i see.

The sollutions i see this moment

* 15 Extra Skillpoints at start

* Coffee +Time +impact (only a idea need to check this)

* Tier 1 Bicycle at startgame/startequip

* Undestroyable Blocks to make a safe fundament for the non horde tower

BTW: The rest is fun so far. So in general, Good Job TFP

 
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The devs are working on balancing the POIs and zombie behavior. I don’t know if they are taking a look at the wandering hordes or blood moons just yet. If there aren’t immediate balance changes don’t give up hope. There are several more weeks of experimental to go. I would also seriously consider lowering the difficulty to adventurer. There are plenty of people who played on insane difficulty in A16 with very few deaths who are dying regularly on nomad. In my mind adventurer should be the default difficulty level.
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This won't help the OP. His problem (and I completely agree with him) is that EVERYTHING in the game now revolves around Perks. This means that Experience is all that matters. Since doing activities doesn't increase anything about your character unless those activities happen to give Experience, the player is forced to perform those activities which give the most Experience. Right now, this is killing Zombies. Nothing else comes close. Easy difficulty or not, the OP is now forced to hunt down and kill zombies CONSTANTLY if he wants to level up and stay ahead of the arms race and horde night. This is garbage design.

 
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