Randomdude
New member
Did you... not go to school??
Did you forget what you learned?
Did you after reading a book for the first time threw it away or did it dissapear when you read the last sentence?
Your logic is not as good as you think it is.
PC Perks System and Level Gates
- Thread starter Roland
- Start date
Did you forget what you learned?
Did you after reading a book for the first time threw it away or did it dissapear when you read the last sentence?
Your logic is not as good as you think it is.
RestInPieces
New member
AKA very realistic?
Syrex
New member
I like the perk system however it does feel that in order to get anywhere you must kill zombies or sell items (which I understand lures you to explore) for the majority of XP. I think the XP gained from killing a zombie should be lessened OR xp gained from other activities increased (or combo of both). On Nomad, 2 shotting a zombie nets me 700xp (1200xp for larger zeds) - that took all of maybe 15-20 seconds. 20 seconds of crafting, mining/digging, cutting trees, building, punching (weed whacking) vegitation or any other xp gain - all yield muchhh lower xp for time spent.
The wellness system, I was already use to because of my playtime with Savage Lands and I like this route far greater than previous alpha iterations. I like that stamina is affected as a side-penalty for not maintaining your hunger/thirst. I like that after you gain levels (perks) you can increase wellness aspects instead of eating/vitamining your way to get wellness points.
I don't mind the gating, though having something "open" at level 10 would help feel on par with the rest of the gates. As of now, I dread having to start over and it feels like it's due to having to play 20 levels just to get a taste of something new/significant opening.
As far as the level caps go, I think it should be an option setup by the server/host.. In a SP I would want all the perks obtainable, while in MP I might feel having a party specialize in different things would be a good option.
The wellness system, I was already use to because of my playtime with Savage Lands and I like this route far greater than previous alpha iterations. I like that stamina is affected as a side-penalty for not maintaining your hunger/thirst. I like that after you gain levels (perks) you can increase wellness aspects instead of eating/vitamining your way to get wellness points.
I don't mind the gating, though having something "open" at level 10 would help feel on par with the rest of the gates. As of now, I dread having to start over and it feels like it's due to having to play 20 levels just to get a taste of something new/significant opening.
As far as the level caps go, I think it should be an option setup by the server/host.. In a SP I would want all the perks obtainable, while in MP I might feel having a party specialize in different things would be a good option.
Weazelsun
New member
I have no problem with the level gating at all. I like the perk system, but would rather it be similar to the A16 system where you could naturally gain experience in a skill and then choose points to the perks. As for the level cap, I'm one of those who would like to be able to max out my character.
HerrKingsley
New member
We have all this great mechanics that are not utilized in 7dtd as a more dynamic gating system.
Biomes having resources that are unique to them. And with the new weather system can be very harsh to travel in if you haven't got the right equipment.
POI loot and Zombies loot that only spawn in a specific biome.
POI loot and Zombies loot that can only be easily looted on higher level.
Trader having permanent skill books and gate items for sale.
Biomes having resources that are unique to them. And with the new weather system can be very harsh to travel in if you haven't got the right equipment.
POI loot and Zombies loot that only spawn in a specific biome.
POI loot and Zombies loot that can only be easily looted on higher level.
Trader having permanent skill books and gate items for sale.
Jarod_Silverstar
New member
I think I preferred the A16 perk system where some things were learned by doing and others by purchasing (or finding books). It just felt like it flowed more smoothly and naturally. I however like that wellness is now able to be purchased, you have more dependability on being able to raise it rather wondering if that next meal is going to give you an extra point or not.
Level gates and character progression are the tricky ones. I dislike the idea of level gates in the early game but understand that you want to limit some of the things to later in the game so players can feel excited about getting them. Personally I would with having more things open and available by default at start and then having level gates kick in starting somewhere around level 50 for opening up the upper tier of items.
Level caps actually should be handled differently in SP vs MP. When you are in SP there is no reason to restrict what a player can do or what he can achieve. But in MP part of the goal is to encourage teams and cooperation so specialization becomes viable. Normally in teams you have people that do different tasks, like building, looting, exploring, zombie killing and such. By limiting progression so that people specialize it makes things a little more real world in that a player cannot do everything on their own and has to depend on teammates for help in other areas.
Level gates and character progression are the tricky ones. I dislike the idea of level gates in the early game but understand that you want to limit some of the things to later in the game so players can feel excited about getting them. Personally I would with having more things open and available by default at start and then having level gates kick in starting somewhere around level 50 for opening up the upper tier of items.
Level caps actually should be handled differently in SP vs MP. When you are in SP there is no reason to restrict what a player can do or what he can achieve. But in MP part of the goal is to encourage teams and cooperation so specialization becomes viable. Normally in teams you have people that do different tasks, like building, looting, exploring, zombie killing and such. By limiting progression so that people specialize it makes things a little more real world in that a player cannot do everything on their own and has to depend on teammates for help in other areas.
Kubikus
New member
That's completely unrealistic. How would you ever be able to assign the xp you earn from an activity to the corresponding perks? Would spend the time between two levels just with one activity? And if you want to get, for example, a loot-related perk, only loot? In higher levels that becomes impossible.
Learning by doing can not be simulated in A17.
cricket504
New member
I think this is the key to what is missing in A17. 1 real way to progress is to kill zombies. All other methods were either nerfed hard or just eliminated. Great for the "make it hard/I want to kill" players. But for the rest, "sorry, but you just have to kill now"
Roland
Moderator
Yes it can IF you don't insist that all the experience for the point earned comes from that one activity. As I said in another thread, once you have a point earned just do something related to the activity for a time and then spend the point. It's just a self imposed simulation and even though it feels satisfying to my own sense of immersion I found out that other players just can't stomach role playing such things.
Earn a point
Go trade 10 items
Spend the point on improving trading
Voila...(for me) good enough simulated learning by doing.
Roland
Moderator
Not justifying. Where did I say, "...and that's why you should like the new perk system!!!"?
Kubikus said there was no way to simulate learning by doing and I shared something I've done that gives me a sense of doing just that. This in no way justifies the new perk system. I didn't even say that everybody should play that way.
What a lame way to twist my words into some kind of an endorsement of the perk system. Sorry, Gups, that's just weird.
HerrKingsley
New member
Meaning that the point system will stay intact?
At least let us mod it back to a16 relatively easy.
Slingblade2040
Active member
Perk system.
I would like to see this built upon more with more variety of perks like grease monkey should be able to make vehicle mods and maybe a blacksmith to make melle weapon mods and so on not just all under one perk. Maybe add more levels for attributes like strength 11,20 and so on. For perks I would like to see something added for unarmed combat. I do think a mix of learn by doing and points was best and let us make sorta more specialized characters like someone who did amazing bow damage vs someone who was great with certain guns. It was a bit more grind but it gave our characters something more to put us apart from someone elses.
Wellness
Personally I think the eatting food system for wellness was good but never expanded upon with better food items. If the cooking recipes were expanded upon where we had to learn perks to cook really amazing food recipes along with expanding ingredients needed from a proper garden it would work out great. Like meat alone would work HP and with little to no benefit for stamina but adding in vegetables or fruits would make a different recipe that would also help stamina. I personally hate how limited we are to food and drink in this game and feel they could add a new element to the game if they were worked on more. Like make a fish meal that gives a Intellect stat boost for X amount of time or some Salad which gives more agility or stam recovery, heck even smoothies or herbal supplements for stamina recovery rate or health recovery rate boost or both.
Level gates.
I hate level gates. If I want to dump my first 30 levels into strength and melle combat why should i have to to wait to spend points to unlock more stats and damage perks till another level? With the current system if I'm level 20 in the game I can only put so much to focus on melle combat and I'm then forced to go put points into something else or wait till I get to X level so more perks unlock.
Level Caps.
Nope. The only time I do another play through is when a new update has me restart the world so I don't see a point in level caps especially since I mostly play single player. Also I don't think I've ever hit level cap on a play through since I usually jump on mods also so hitting level cap on any play through is doubtful but it's still something I don't want.
I would like to see this built upon more with more variety of perks like grease monkey should be able to make vehicle mods and maybe a blacksmith to make melle weapon mods and so on not just all under one perk. Maybe add more levels for attributes like strength 11,20 and so on. For perks I would like to see something added for unarmed combat. I do think a mix of learn by doing and points was best and let us make sorta more specialized characters like someone who did amazing bow damage vs someone who was great with certain guns. It was a bit more grind but it gave our characters something more to put us apart from someone elses.
Wellness
Personally I think the eatting food system for wellness was good but never expanded upon with better food items. If the cooking recipes were expanded upon where we had to learn perks to cook really amazing food recipes along with expanding ingredients needed from a proper garden it would work out great. Like meat alone would work HP and with little to no benefit for stamina but adding in vegetables or fruits would make a different recipe that would also help stamina. I personally hate how limited we are to food and drink in this game and feel they could add a new element to the game if they were worked on more. Like make a fish meal that gives a Intellect stat boost for X amount of time or some Salad which gives more agility or stam recovery, heck even smoothies or herbal supplements for stamina recovery rate or health recovery rate boost or both.
Level gates.
I hate level gates. If I want to dump my first 30 levels into strength and melle combat why should i have to to wait to spend points to unlock more stats and damage perks till another level? With the current system if I'm level 20 in the game I can only put so much to focus on melle combat and I'm then forced to go put points into something else or wait till I get to X level so more perks unlock.
Level Caps.
Nope. The only time I do another play through is when a new update has me restart the world so I don't see a point in level caps especially since I mostly play single player. Also I don't think I've ever hit level cap on a play through since I usually jump on mods also so hitting level cap on any play through is doubtful but it's still something I don't want.
Sellsents
New member
A16 had its flaws, but personally for me it was one of the best alphas TFP ever released especially the introduction of the electricity. If I could choose between the current Alpha17 and an Alpha16 version which has the new textures, lighting, POI´s, vehicles and recipes included I would thankfully take this A16 version and be just happy.
I see the effort TFP was putting into this Alpha but for me they just went to far this time and therefore I simply can´t enjoy it. And that its a shame because of all the hours of development that went into this build. For me 7 Days to Die was never about good grafics or high end performance or zombie slaugthering all day long. It was a good mix between exploring, crafting, building, looting and slaugthering. Beeing able to do what you wanna do, whenever you wanna do it, was what made this game a great game. Its all about freedom and creativity and the posibility to play it over and over again without getting borred. And thats exactly why people put so many hours into this game.
I don´t know why the FunPimps after all this years of developement felt the need to change the game so drastically. Why it has to turn into a game now that is no longer unique but like any other horror style tower defense shooter that people buy and play for 100 hour and then dumb it to play something else.
I see the effort TFP was putting into this Alpha but for me they just went to far this time and therefore I simply can´t enjoy it. And that its a shame because of all the hours of development that went into this build. For me 7 Days to Die was never about good grafics or high end performance or zombie slaugthering all day long. It was a good mix between exploring, crafting, building, looting and slaugthering. Beeing able to do what you wanna do, whenever you wanna do it, was what made this game a great game. Its all about freedom and creativity and the posibility to play it over and over again without getting borred. And thats exactly why people put so many hours into this game.
I don´t know why the FunPimps after all this years of developement felt the need to change the game so drastically. Why it has to turn into a game now that is no longer unique but like any other horror style tower defense shooter that people buy and play for 100 hour and then dumb it to play something else.
Lord_Clown1
New member
Agreed. I at the very least do not mind the wellness regardless. The only thing that truly bothered me was the level gates. I pref A15's skill system myself, where you learn completely by doing.
Actually, i have an idea for a completely new system, mixing stats and the old learn by doing system.
So if we go from you using the old system, and add stats for different buffs, like HP/STAMINA And str doing more damage with melee weapons, carrying more and so, with just as few skillpoints to add into things as you have in this alpha.
Although that sounds like a pain to implement.
Simply removing level gates would be the easiest now, or makign em much much lesser so that you can specialize in your own playstyle, play your own class, the way you yourself want to play it, focusing on the aspects that YOU find most important.
and Thank you so much for making this poll! I Love you for it. I feel like my prayers ahve been answered!
Just the removal of level gates makes me feel like i'll love playing 7dtd again <3
The way i want to.
Actually, i have an idea for a completely new system, mixing stats and the old learn by doing system.
So if we go from you using the old system, and add stats for different buffs, like HP/STAMINA And str doing more damage with melee weapons, carrying more and so, with just as few skillpoints to add into things as you have in this alpha.
Although that sounds like a pain to implement.
Simply removing level gates would be the easiest now, or makign em much much lesser so that you can specialize in your own playstyle, play your own class, the way you yourself want to play it, focusing on the aspects that YOU find most important.
and Thank you so much for making this poll! I Love you for it. I feel like my prayers ahve been answered!
Just the removal of level gates makes me feel like i'll love playing 7dtd again <3
The way i want to.