PC One Should Form One's Own Opinion!

That is a great summary of what I have experienced as well. I am assuming that most of this is coming from a Single Player perspective because that's how I normally play and this description is almost to a "T".
They will argue until they are they blue that the new system offers more variety. I suppose you could force yourself to take some kind of different route with the perks, but you tend to stick with what you know works for you. Supposedly for A18, this could change with more advanced perk trees and specializations... but I am worried about it. As a single player, in order to survive reasonably, you need to have a nice balance of everything. The new setup has the potential to force a SP to specialize when they really need to be a jack of all trades. I guess we'll see how it goes. Another possible outcome of what is to come is that a single player still ends up choosing the same perk path because again, we tend to go with what works for us. I think what we really need are circumstances that can happen in the world that affects our decisions more, and could force us into going a certain path we wouldn't normally go.
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I think the higher difficulty of time management and tower defense part made SP have a lot less "wriggle room" pushing most players into selecting similar perks. My method of dealing with this was to prolong length of day from 60 to 90 minutes (I would have chosen 80 minutes if I had that choice in the menue) without changing difficulty. I don't think most players will change their play style greatly no matter how the game is done, we have our preferences.

For the first horde night taking over a brick building is IMHO the best option. I also had success with simply using and shaping a big stone and building a court yard with lots of spikes and only one entrance to it.

I find building the horde night base a lot more interesting than in previous alphas. If you are a purist who thinks even having a funnel/single entrance to lead the zombies is an exploit then yes, you won't have fun with A17. I never built those artifical looking single file labyrinths on stilts, something you see posted quite often as exploity bases. I use principles that builders of antique castles used in the middle ages and they do work.

 
I think the higher difficulty of time management and tower defense part made SP have a lot less "wriggle room" pushing most players into selecting similar perks. My method of dealing with this was to prolong length of day from 60 to 90 minutes (I would have chosen 80 minutes if I had that choice in the menue) without changing difficulty. I don't think most players will change their play style greatly no matter how the game is done, we have our preferences.
For the first horde night taking over a brick building is IMHO the best option. I also had success with simply using and shaping a big stone and building a court yard with lots of spikes and only one entrance to it.

I find building the horde night base a lot more interesting than in previous alphas. If you are a purist who thinks even having a funnel/single entrance to lead the zombies is an exploit then yes, you won't have fun with A17. I never built those artifical looking single file labyrinths on stilts, something you see posted quite often as exploity bases. I use principles that builders of antique castles used in the middle ages and they do work.
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Sure, the having to deal with base building yourself definitely contributes. Really, you could say the same about everything when playing single player. Gathering resources, looting, hydration, food, it all falls on you alone. While specializing in multiplayer can greatly benefit the team as a whole, doing so in single player could be very detrimental. You can focus a little, but you still have to maintain some kind of balance or suffer the consequences.

In the end, I guess what I am hoping for is a way to be forced out of my comfort zone, but while doing so, it is still possible to survive. This is thought behind a recent post of mine in Pimp Dreams: https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?114886-Scenarios-Expanding-7D2D-Easily

I want to have the challenge, but not because I made it that way just for the sake of doing it... but because I need to in order to achieve some ultimate goal.

 
You can tell how old this game is... libraries and bookstores are almost extinct.
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That doesn't really have to do with the age of the game, and I see it as an ongoing problem for level artists. You'll still see new games, set in the present day or near future, where the street corners are full of phone booths, news stands, and mail boxes; where desks are covered with papers, landline telephones, and computers that can only show you local files if anything. The thing is, even if most of that stuff is increasingly anachronistic, the game world has spaces that need to be filled with something. You don't want half the game to be played on your character's smart phone, at least in most cases. There are probably even more caveats taken in post-apocalyptic games like this one, what with the collapse of society turning the practical utility of things upside down (i.e., hunks of plastic and silicon are nearly worthless, while a short iron pipe could save your life).

 
I wasn’t saying they should take them out. I just mean they are so abundant and if you were designing the game starting right now, you wouldn’t think to include that many.

 
You might not think to for realism, but you might think to for balance, or for the sake of utilizing the assets you have. Though I do agree the distribution of buildings could be improved. For instance, I believe the overabundance of radio towers was listed as a known issue at one point.

 
I've played a couple hours of a17, over 1000 hours before that. I think a lot of the things that made it a more realistic survival game have been removed or replaced. The RWG map is just a joke now. Criss crossing diagonal roads, every map looks exactly the same. Ever poi has floors that fall through and is a dungeon of some type. Every poi is infested with z's.

I thought learning a skill by doing it was realistic. Learning from books was a good thing. Now if you want to learn how to craft electric items, you go kill zombies until you get enough xp to level and spend points in science. How does hitting a zombie with a club teach you how to cook better food or whatever. The immersion is gone. The survival aspects are pretty much gone now. No need to farm anymore, not even sure if they removed it or not, probably has been.

Now you can kill enough zombies to learn how to build your own motorcycle or 4X4. Makes sense...

Why not a class system. Everyone has different real life skills. I can't build a 4X4, and I don't care how many things I kill or books I read, I'll never have the ability to build one. But I'm sure there are people who could build one from parts they find. I don't shoot great in real life, but I bet with some practice I would get a lot better.

Sorry, it's just not the sandbox survival game it used to be or I was hoping it would become. It's more of a dumbed down pvp shooter type game with a few basic survival aspects thrown in just so it can still be called a survival game. I'll keep checking back with updates to see if it's changed, but I don't think I'll be playing again unless it does. It was great while it lasted and I'll always consider it to be one of the best games ever created, back in the Alpha 11-14 era.

 
I've played a couple hours of a17, over 1000 hours before that. I think a lot of the things that made it a more realistic survival game have been removed or replaced. The RWG map is just a joke now. Criss crossing diagonal roads, every map looks exactly the same. Ever poi has floors that fall through and is a dungeon of some type. Every poi is infested with z's.
I thought learning a skill by doing it was realistic. Learning from books was a good thing. Now if you want to learn how to craft electric items, you go kill zombies until you get enough xp to level and spend points in science. How does hitting a zombie with a club teach you how to cook better food or whatever. The immersion is gone. The survival aspects are pretty much gone now. No need to farm anymore, not even sure if they removed it or not, probably has been.

Now you can kill enough zombies to learn how to build your own motorcycle or 4X4. Makes sense...

Why not a class system. Everyone has different real life skills. I can't build a 4X4, and I don't care how many things I kill or books I read, I'll never have the ability to build one. But I'm sure there are people who could build one from parts they find. I don't shoot great in real life, but I bet with some practice I would get a lot better.

Sorry, it's just not the sandbox survival game it used to be or I was hoping it would become. It's more of a dumbed down pvp shooter type game with a few basic survival aspects thrown in just so it can still be called a survival game. I'll keep checking back with updates to see if it's changed, but I don't think I'll be playing again unless it does. It was great while it lasted and I'll always consider it to be one of the best games ever created, back in the Alpha 11-14 era.
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Well said. I totally agree.

 
I've played a couple hours of a17, over 1000 hours before that. I think a lot of the things that made it a more realistic survival game have been removed or replaced. The RWG map is just a joke now. Criss crossing diagonal roads, every map looks exactly the same. Ever poi has floors that fall through and is a dungeon of some type. Every poi is infested with z's.
I thought learning a skill by doing it was realistic. Learning from books was a good thing. Now if you want to learn how to craft electric items, you go kill zombies until you get enough xp to level and spend points in science. How does hitting a zombie with a club teach you how to cook better food or whatever. The immersion is gone. The survival aspects are pretty much gone now. No need to farm anymore, not even sure if they removed it or not, probably has been.

Now you can kill enough zombies to learn how to build your own motorcycle or 4X4. Makes sense...

Why not a class system. Everyone has different real life skills. I can't build a 4X4, and I don't care how many things I kill or books I read, I'll never have the ability to build one. But I'm sure there are people who could build one from parts they find. I don't shoot great in real life, but I bet with some practice I would get a lot better.

Sorry, it's just not the sandbox survival game it used to be or I was hoping it would become. It's more of a dumbed down pvp shooter type game with a few basic survival aspects thrown in just so it can still be called a survival game. I'll keep checking back with updates to see if it's changed, but I don't think I'll be playing again unless it does. It was great while it lasted and I'll always consider it to be one of the best games ever created, back in the Alpha 11-14 era.
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Most players agree that the hybrid system of perk points and LBD is best as expressed via a poll that has been left to rot on page 20. Left to rot for 2 reasons:

1) Players are tired of expressing this concern, that just gets shut down.

2) TFP wants absolutely no hint of LBD in this game.

The closest we will get to LBD is from reading books coming soon... but this doesn't mean that the absurd relation of bashing zombie skull and becoming Bill Nye will be straightened out.

Regarding zombies in POIs, we have a newer poll. The options do not fully express what players really want to see, as I mention in this post. Madmole has mentioned a few times that they are reducing the number of sleepers in POIs, and most of the added POIs will be dungeons. However, like I said in my post, I fear that all POI sleepers will be reduced when some POIs should be loaded.

The trend is this... most of the reviews are crying about optimization and that the game has been in alpha for ages. It is in their minds that everything they do from here on out must improve optimization or at least not contribute to poor performance and must also align with their original kickstarter goals. If they cannot find a quick way to improve upon some resource-hungry system, they prefer to just discard it as long as they are still in compliance with their kickstarter goals. When players complain about the removal and/or the dumbing down of features, they will conveniently refer to optimization complaints and/or the need to urgently go gold. If you mention LBD, the will refer to how people would spam-craft to level up and how people hated that. However, they will not mention that they already solved that problem in 16.4, nor do they recognize that people did it because some things were stupidly level-gated. The second argument will be that people would stand next to cactus to level armor skill. When asked if their game cannot distinguish between damage from a cactus and damage from a zombie, they will refer to the previous excuses I mentioned above. In general, whichever argument is most convenient to use at the time, they will use. The real killer is that these arguments have been spewed out so many times, that more and more players actually believe it. When that poll was out and A17 was fresh, I could pose my arguments and so many people would be in agreement. If I do it now, players will quote me and spew out the same TFP arguments like a recording playing over and over.

From here on out, I'm afraid that it is no longer worth anybody's time to provide game ideas, feature requests, or complaints about changes... because they are simply turning away from that. In a thread about opinion, this is fact.

 
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Yes, well said, but I have formed my own opinions.

I love the perk spending system but I hate experience gaining being so much in our faces and lending unnatural incentives to one action or another. But that has been a problem since A12ish and not unique to A17.

I love the zombie behavior and the poi’s.

I love how we develop the class of our character over time rather than starting out as a class chosen before the game begins.

 
In my opinion, the game could have been released, with major bugs fixed and an end goal, at around the A11 point.

Then A13-16 could have made up a DLC expansion and A17 on would be a completely new game, as it has changed so much.

I'm currently at 2,670 hours (since A8) but was up to 2,500 quite a few months ago, so I'm not playing as much now. A17 is actually quite welcome for now, due to it's different play style from what we've had in the past - how long that will last, I don't know.

The main point of the thread, though, was that it's much better to have a go, rather than just react to other's posts.

 
Yes, well said, but I have formed my own opinions.
I love the perk spending system but I hate experience gaining being so much in our faces and lending unnatural incentives to one action or another. But that has been a problem since A12ish and not unique to A17.

I love the zombie behavior and the poiآ’s.

I love how we develop the class of our character over time rather than starting out as a class chosen before the game begins.
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I have given far more than enough solutions to those problems. But they have demonstrated time and time again, that they are unwilling or unable to listen. I thank you for always beeing kind and understanding. But sadly, I cannot say the same for them.

Levelgates are the devil. Simple as that.

Easy solution:

make it achievement based.

Want to unlock intelligent levels?

you need to have crafted 50 items crafted for lvl 10 (only items like clothing or armor that has a value, not like molotovs or arrows)

So if you wanna be a crafter you aren't hindered.

If you want the fortitude one, regen 5000 hp or grab 500 planted plants and so on.

Because levels are nice. Levelgates are the worst. They make this game into a grindfest.

LBD in A14-A15 was way WAY better than what we have now. Back then at least you had to do different kinds of activities to level everything.

Now its only zombiekilling because it is the fastest. And if they change it, the community will find the next fastest and so on. Its not a balance issue. Its a design issue. Levelgates require farming levels. Easy as that.

And I don't care if a group of 4 can have steel at day 10. That was just because you wanted levels. And who honestly thinks that reducing complexity from 600 to 6 and 100 to 10/5 will increase player choice is on some hardcore stuff.

I actually played with friends on 17.2

And I kinda enjoy myself, because i have been on such a long break. Some nice touches like graphics pois, models, physics and so on aren ice.

But everytime we need to wait 3 more hours to grind levels so that we can finally drive the truck we already have all the ressources for, I want to quit! Or when our super defense gets broken down within an ingame hour because they deal so much focused blockdamage that it is 10x more viable to stay outside and kite them.

A18 will not improve all that much if they plan on releasing it this or early next year. It will need to fix all that A17 broke until it is more or less on par with A16.4

 
I've switched over to a mod that puts all the crafting recipes back into books that have to be found in the world and it has brought back the magic for me. This removes all of the level gates except for things like needing Perception 3 to get that next level of Boom Headshot, which I find reasonable rather than annoying. So now I'm loving 17.2 but I wouldn't play vanilla again for anything.

 
I've switched over to a mod that puts all the crafting recipes back into books that have to be found in the world and it has brought back the magic for me. This removes all of the level gates except for things like needing Perception 3 to get that next level of Boom Headshot, which I find reasonable rather than annoying. So now I'm loving 17.2 but I wouldn't play vanilla again for anything.
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What mod is that?

 
What mod is that?
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It's called Just Survive, Somehow (link)

The loot is a little too abundant for me at the standard settings, so I've put loot at 75% and it's just about perfect. Oh, and JSS brings back "e" for harvest, too, which I love more than I can say.

 
... JSS brings back "e" for harvest, too, which I love more than I can say.
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My biggest beef so far with A17 - really don't like the "hit to collect" mechanism - seems a real retrograde step to me.

 
for me a17 adds some good stuff but the replayability is an issue for me so i dont play anymore. the grind of killing zombies just got to be too much for me. dont really care for having to seek out zombies to kill...and the number of them in each poi is just absolutely ridiculous. it just isnt the same game i fell in love with . i loved the building and crafting and exploring then id do some zombie bashing to spice things up. if they want zombie killing to be the focus of this game they really need to make the zombies look and act better and the weapons need to be alot better imo

i used to love zipping in and out of zombies with my hunting knife and destroying zombies but now melee is blahhhh. mining is blahhhh. farming is blahhhh. zombie killing is blahhhh

 
Suggestion: Try playing on Scavenger. Not because you need it to be easier but because the zombies die faster and that can reduce the grind. It is actually quite fun to play with low HP zombies.

 
i used to love zipping in and out of zombies with my hunting knife and destroying zombies but now melee is blahhhh. mining is blahhhh. farming is blahhhh. zombie killing is blahhhh
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Horde night is blah too. Defend your base? why? you won't get much for doing so. It certainly won't be worth the cost of repairs or replenishing your ammo.

Two arguments for removing the bodies:

1) Performance. Too many containers laying around.

2) The claim that nobody liked destroying all the bodies to collect a load of trash.

Both are completely valid arguments. The solution might be to find a way to reduce the containers. Perhaps let nearby body containers combine their items into one. Too much garbage? Stop giving garbage! We are fighting a horde, we obviously need to replace weapons and ammo. Their solution is to remove gore blocks and give you a couple loot bags that you probably won't be able to collect before they despawn anyway and make all dead zombies poof into thin air, much like your enjoyment of horde night.

 
Someone really should rewrite the whole battle of Helm’s Deep from the Lord of the Rings because one key area in which the movie agrees with the book was that the heroes and the Rohirrim seemed to have important reasons other than xp and loot for defending their base against the assaulting horde. But what could that be?

Gimli: How many loot bags have ye collected?

Legolas: 22, you?

Gimli: 24 and I’ve leveled up twice! Suck it Elf!!

 
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