PC Okay soo stone tools are everywhere...whats your opinion on this?

[Galifrey1965]

Your poll is funny and sarcastic which, being me, I can appreciate but it really makes it a terrible poll. Polls should be as neutral as possible and then in your comments in the thread go wild with the snark. Some people won’t participate because of how you slanted all the answer choices...lol

At any rate, we know that greater variety of primitive weapons is coming and they are currently working on loot tables. @Galifrey1965 made a good suggestion in another thread for TFP doing another pass over the loot tables to make the loot containers have more junk appropriate to their setting rather than just all having stone tools. I agree and hope that as TFP continues to work on the loot progression they will make such adjustments. 

Why thank you sir, nice to see constructive feedback is recognised by some  

 

[leaderdog]

I really don't understand the persistence to add more stone items or stone items in loot containers at all.  The only stone loot that should be in crates would be a sharpening stone... but that's not in vanilla, and the better ones aren't made from stone either.

I find it really hard to start over now because it's not enjoyable to me.  I understand there are some that do enjoy it and I'm sure they're happy, and that's great, but it should be something that's easily removed via the xml for those of us who find this slow level limitation boring and not worth playing, which I don't believe it is at the moment.

I prefer to use melee weapons, and a bat should be something you'd find in almost any home in America.  I'm fine without using guns and can go a long time without them, but looting crates is virtually pointless as you're not likely to get anything useful and the number of times I got 3 stone axes in a single working stiff crate was extremely frustrating. 

I agree and had mentioned the first week a19 came out that the loot table should never have stone tools in it, and to just have usable other items in them.  Not just lumber, but items that you can use now, or later in game.  I'm glad to hear that is something the pimps will revisit.

A lot of good things in this alpha, but I feel this artificial limiting of game play to slow down the progression is overshadowing much of that.

 

[Zombizie]

I don’t mind stone tools In loot however the way it works now is trash, the whole thing that made looting fun was the randomness of it, now that joy of a big find is gone.  Same @%$*#! every play through 

 

[Xtrakicking]

Honestly, I've always thought that stone stuff should only be craftable. It's supposed to be makeshift stuff that the player is encouraged to make at first so they can survive till they find better stuff, which is why they're cheap to make. Sure, maybe have them spawn in trash bags or abandoned survivor's backpacks, but they don't belong anywhere else in my opinion.

 

[leaderdog]

Also, when you have a level 6 stone axe with mods in it, at level 40 when you get a level 1 or level 2 iron pick or axe, you're still better off using the level 6 stone axe.  That's not progression either.  You're essentially waiting until you get a green iron tool before it's actually an upgrade.  Which is also tied to gamestage so you're looking at several more levels before you get something worthwhile.  This repeats itself with steel tools as well, Until you get one good enough to add multiple mods it's better to use the previous tier tool with maxed mods.

so that "excitement" from finding something better, is put off, diminished or simply no longer there because you're just scrapping it anyways.

 

[Boidster]

I've always been a bit surprised that primitive tools/weapons can accept mods at all.

 

[Solomon]

Your poll is funny and sarcastic which, being me, I can appreciate but it really makes it a terrible poll. Polls should be as neutral as possible and then in your comments in the thread go wild with the snark. Some people won’t participate because of how you slanted all the answer choices...lol

I know my questions are kind of sarcastic and have a joking approach, the reason is because i think that if you answer any of the choices you should be able to reason why you think so.

I personally cant find any reason why would i ever find stone shovels in a working stiff sealed crate apart from saying they were in a museum, the answers i put up reflect this and if someone has a different reason they can argue it.

I also too liked @Galifrey1965's suggestion, its a natural aproach what makes sense and i appreciate ideas like that. I played around with that idea too and it would fix soo many problems.

 

[Galifrey1965]

Honestly, I've always thought that stone stuff should only be craftable. It's supposed to be makeshift stuff that the player is encouraged to make at first so they can survive till they find better stuff, which is why they're cheap to make. Sure, maybe have them spawn in trash bags or abandoned survivor's backpacks, but they don't belong anywhere else in my opinion.

Apparently I have reached my "like" quota for the day, so consider your post liked.

I know my questions are kind of sarcastic and have a joking approach, the reason is because i think that if you answer any of the choices you should be able to reason why you think so.

I personally cant find any reason why would i ever find stone shovels in a working stiff sealed crate apart from saying they were in a museum, the answers i put up reflect this and if someone has a different reason they can argue it.

I also too liked @Galifrey1965's suggestion, its a natural aproach what makes sense and i appreciate ideas like that. I played around with that idea too and it would fix soo many problems.

Thank you Solomon, I thought so as well, maybe it was coming with the loot rebalance anyway, but I like to think it was a well thought out suggestion based on actually playing the game and experiencing what happens with other loot.

Also, when you have a level 6 stone axe with mods in it, at level 40 when you get a level 1 or level 2 iron pick or axe, you're still better off using the level 6 stone axe.  That's not progression either.  You're essentially waiting until you get a green iron tool before it's actually an upgrade.  Which is also tied to gamestage so you're looking at several more levels before you get something worthwhile.  This repeats itself with steel tools as well, Until you get one good enough to add multiple mods it's better to use the previous tier tool with maxed mods.

so that "excitement" from finding something better, is put off, diminished or simply no longer there because you're just scrapping it anyways.

150% agree!

Too many good comments in this thread to cover them all but find myself agreeing with pretty much all of them.

 

[uselessjunkaccount]

I feel like the problem with A19 loot stages is that way too much content is trying to be squeezed out of the first half of the total technology available, especially with the stone stage. What I would like to see with further development is the addition of more high quality technology along with the addition of new, tougher zombies as the game stage progresses.

I don't think there's enough content there at the moment to justify the extended stone age. If nothing else, I hope the addition of new quests/factions in coming alphas will flesh out this stage of the game more. These trader quests were always repetitive by design but at least you got the benefit of the loot at these POIs in earlier alphas. But after getting literally hundreds of useless stone items it becomes boring really fast. At least give some shell of an instanced story there behind these quests so I feel like I have some agency in the game because at the moment it feels like I have been put on rails in the game without any of the usual theme-park style benefits you get out of open world RPGs.

I don't mind the loot stages in theory but feel like the game can't support it yet. Worst of all I feel like this is going to be extremely detrimental for replayability.

 

[wizard puke]

There is something funny about the fact that I have multiple battery banks and a bunch of trigger plates and stuff but I haven't even found a brown pistol yet. I am safe though because I have an entire storage crate that is entirely just blunderbusses (blunderbi?) so I can fire 8 times before I need to hide and reload for 3 minutes.

I am having fun either way. The pace itself is good. Maybe a little too reliant on traders now but I think it will just take getting used to.

I finally (day 10) got a bike and a helmet light going so now I can recklessly run around at night until I get killed by a wolf or run into a landmine or think a bear is a rock or something.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

With the slow progression we have right now (wich is highly appreciated) we need an additonal stage of tools. Scrap metal. And a bit more variety in loot early on. I really like the slower progression but looting has become stale. Trying to think of another sorft of armor for early on. Didn´t have any idea so far tough. (Wood?)

Getting always the same and exactly knowing what you get when is not very motivating.

@wizard puke i constantly avoid rocks early game because i think they are bears.

 

[Kattla]

I am fairly neutral on the issue of stone tools in loot. Possibly a very minor immersion boost if there are no stone tools in loot, or at least reduced to a few realistic loot containers. But finding a higher level stone tool then what you can craft early on is kinda nice for gameplay reasons, so, not sure what is the better option. Nice poll btw.

 

[Kalen]

Trying to think of another sorft of armor for early on. Didn´t have any idea so far tough. (Wood?)

How about padded->leather->plastic (like hockey pads)->military ?

 

[watzlp]

I think this kinda goes hand in hand with my original post a couple weeks back. Finding Stone tools in EVERYTHING you loot is rather dumb. Worst part is on a server I rarely play Im already game stage 50 at lv40something but still finding stone tools. I can MAKE IRON TOOLS at Lv5. This Looting system does NOTHING to make me want to play the game and instead just pushes me to kill more zombies. Why Loot in a game where 90% of the loot is now stone tools? Sure a Lv6 Stone axe is nice, but Id still prefer atleast a lv3 Actual Iron Axe you know? Lucky Looter is still worthless outside of opening loot faster.

 

[Solomon]

Did this two (or more) topics just got merged?

What the hell is happening here? (i also lost access to the thread to edit it because its now @Ghostlight's thread)

 

[warmer]

I was bored when i had everything on day 14 in previous alphas. Welcome change tbh. Just needs more diverse loot in early game.

Love the progression as well. The older builds I was bored by day 14 every game. Now I have things to work for.

In regard to finding the stone tools, honestly, what do you expect would be left for the people who couldn't escape? All the good stuff would be gone first and therefore would be the least likely to find. Finding a basic pistol with a full mag in this situation would be like a winning powerball ticket. So to me, the progression isn't to slow. I think it is closer to maxing out skills, and I think that the games climax would be best if skill maxing and gear maxing was at a similar pace. How that is best achieved is open for debate.


Also, I just don't understand what you mean by question 3 in the poll?

The answers don't makes sense to me. What is being implied by the number of items?

 

[Xtrakicking]

Finding a basic pistol with a full mag in this situation would be like a winning powerball ticket.

Which is why it's easier to find a pistol in toilets than in gun safes, right? Didn't know powerball tickets were in every toilet of Arizona...

This has already been discussed before, but no one is asking for more powerful gear, just gear that isn't entirely repetitive, that isn't mostly useless and that makes sense for the container that's stored in.

 

[warmer]

Which is why it's easier to find a pistol in toilets than in gun safes, right? Didn't know powerball tickets were in every toilet of Arizona...

This has already been discussed before, but no one is asking for more powerful gear, just gear that isn't entirely repetitive, that isn't mostly useless and that makes sense for the container that's stored in.

you don't find gun in toilets anymore. lol also making sense for the container it's stored in is silly. Sometimes all you have to store your rolex in is a shoebox.

 

[Xtrakicking]

you don't find gun in toilets anymore. lol

Uhh, yes you do... At least I know I certainly did; I found all my A19 pistols in toilets. Is it different in this new B173 patch?

Edit: I just checked. Confirmed you can still find guns (and knives!!!!) in toilets:

lol also making sense for the container it's stored in is silly. Sometimes all you have to store your rolex in is a shoebox.

Exactly, "sometimes", not all the time. Besides, these are mental gymnastics, average people will be weirded out to find loot where it doesn't belong, just like in movies when something doesn't make sense.

 

[Solomon]

Love the progression as well. The older builds I was bored by day 14 every game. Now I have things to work for.

In regard to finding the stone tools, honestly, what do you expect would be left for the people who couldn't escape? All the good stuff would be gone first and therefore would be the least likely to find. Finding a basic pistol with a full mag in this situation would be like a winning powerball ticket. So to me, the progression isn't to slow. I think it is closer to maxing out skills, and I think that the games climax would be best if skill maxing and gear maxing was at a similar pace. How that is best achieved is open for debate.

That only makes sense when gamestages dont affect loot at all because right now when you reach the higher gamestages you start finding the same thing you would have expected in A18 what defeats this entire reasoning of why you shouldnt find pistols with full mags.

Also, I just don't understand what you mean by question 3 in the poll?

The answers don't makes sense to me. What is being implied by the number of items?

It means how much extra items you want ingame like do you want to expand the stone age equipment by atleast 3 more different tools or not. Like do you want 2 more stone hammer variations?

Exactly, "sometimes", not all the time. Besides, these are mental gymnastics, average people will be weirded out to find loot where it doesn't belong, just like in movies when something doesn't make sense.

Thats exactly the problem i wanted to find answers in the pool. @Galifrey1965 originally suggested a loot rebalance what puts all items in places where you can actually expect them, sealed pre-apocalypse containers should have pre-apocalypse loot, gunsafes should have guns, toolboxes should have tool and soo on.

There can be a few outliners like the toilet pistol but they should be rare and suprising, no one really likes when your looting effort always looks the same like opening 6 gunsafes in a row and its all blunderbusses.