Royal Deluxe
New member
Because 7D2D is mostly a "arcade shooter Minecraft" i doesnt completly disagree.
In Real there are worlds between a sword and a machete. A machete is nearer to a axe than to a sword.
New weapons!
- Thread starter TotallyNotABot
- Start date
In Real there are worlds between a sword and a machete. A machete is nearer to a axe than to a sword.
Royal Deluxe
New member
Blunderbuss --> Wild west alike rifle
Modern Magnum --> Wild west alike revolver
Wood Bat --> One and a half hander (alike)
https://www.schwertshop.de/ritterschwert-agincourt--azincourt.html
https://www.schwertshop.de/schwert-anderthalbhaender-von-calenberg-kaufen.html
This would be a trade i would like.
Maybe the modern Magnum would leave a gap because of the Pistol Skill. But blunderbuss and Wood Bat nobody use.
Modern Magnum --> Wild west alike revolver
Wood Bat --> One and a half hander (alike)
https://www.schwertshop.de/ritterschwert-agincourt--azincourt.html
https://www.schwertshop.de/schwert-anderthalbhaender-von-calenberg-kaufen.html
This would be a trade i would like.
Maybe the modern Magnum would leave a gap because of the Pistol Skill. But blunderbuss and Wood Bat nobody use.
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Brian9824
New member
Also for the love of god people, whatever you know about swords from movies and TV just forget about it. None of it is true or based in any reality.
I enjoy going to renaissance festivals and i've gotten to see swords being made in real life, i've gotten to handle some and talk with people who make them. Its NOTHING Like you see in movies.
1. The Katana being the ultimate blade is a myth.
The reality is it was folded because it was made with crappy steel and it was folded to remove carbon in the metal making it less brittle.
In reality the Katana is inferior to most swords and requires YEARS of training in a very SPECIFIC way of wielding it otherwise it will shatter or break on use. Just like this guy here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzV6J3SQ8Qs&feature=youtu.be
2. Everything about swords being hammered out on an anvil
Completely false, pure BS from Hollywood.
In reality its highly specialized and takes YEARS of knowledge to properly do it. Years of knowledge for making the blade, for polishing and sharpening it, etc. Each is a separate specialty and vital for a proper sword.
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1238-6-things-movies-get-wrong-about-swords-an-inside-look.html
http://www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/swords_faq_index.htm
If you try to use an improperly balanced sword you WILL either break your wrist or send your sword flying across the room depending on the weight inbalance. Swinging a 7-10lb object that is unbalanced will generate significant force along either the upper blade or hilt which you don't want. The hilt and pummel need to be weighted and balanced against the specific sword so that the swings remain balanced and it was an entire profession in of itself.
I enjoy going to renaissance festivals and i've gotten to see swords being made in real life, i've gotten to handle some and talk with people who make them. Its NOTHING Like you see in movies.
1. The Katana being the ultimate blade is a myth.
The reality is it was folded because it was made with crappy steel and it was folded to remove carbon in the metal making it less brittle.
In reality the Katana is inferior to most swords and requires YEARS of training in a very SPECIFIC way of wielding it otherwise it will shatter or break on use. Just like this guy here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzV6J3SQ8Qs&feature=youtu.be
2. Everything about swords being hammered out on an anvil
Completely false, pure BS from Hollywood.
In reality its highly specialized and takes YEARS of knowledge to properly do it. Years of knowledge for making the blade, for polishing and sharpening it, etc. Each is a separate specialty and vital for a proper sword.
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1238-6-things-movies-get-wrong-about-swords-an-inside-look.html
http://www.anvilfire.com/FAQs/swords_faq_index.htm
If you try to use an improperly balanced sword you WILL either break your wrist or send your sword flying across the room depending on the weight inbalance. Swinging a 7-10lb object that is unbalanced will generate significant force along either the upper blade or hilt which you don't want. The hilt and pummel need to be weighted and balanced against the specific sword so that the swings remain balanced and it was an entire profession in of itself.
Royal Deluxe
New member
look this ^^
1. What is the difference between "Wooden club" and "Baseball bat" ?
The printed logo on the bat makes the world of difference ?
2. Double Headed Axe vs. fire axe, again what is the difference ?
"Axes come in different forms, but all with basic parts like a head and a handle. The double bit axe is composed of two blades. One edge is kept in a sharp condition and the other is usually rather blunt as a result of hacking around rocks or dirt. This tool is mainly used by professional lumberjacks."
-Wikipedia.
There is zero combat advantage in double headed axe. It's just harder to use. Sure, D&D art loves dwarf with double axes.
3. Swords, you got a point there. Game could use a long sword and/or katana.
4. Flame thrower & molotovs. Like Zombie survival guide tells you: Only thing more dangerous than zombie is burning zombie. They burn buildings and your defenses and YOU.
5. Granades, sure why not. But what does that add to pipe bomb. Only faster to use.
6. Incendiary Grenade, like you said same as molotov. Only thing interesting would be thermite grenade, but that would be too OP.
The printed logo on the bat makes the world of difference ?
2. Double Headed Axe vs. fire axe, again what is the difference ?
"Axes come in different forms, but all with basic parts like a head and a handle. The double bit axe is composed of two blades. One edge is kept in a sharp condition and the other is usually rather blunt as a result of hacking around rocks or dirt. This tool is mainly used by professional lumberjacks."
-Wikipedia.
There is zero combat advantage in double headed axe. It's just harder to use. Sure, D&D art loves dwarf with double axes.
3. Swords, you got a point there. Game could use a long sword and/or katana.
4. Flame thrower & molotovs. Like Zombie survival guide tells you: Only thing more dangerous than zombie is burning zombie. They burn buildings and your defenses and YOU.
5. Granades, sure why not. But what does that add to pipe bomb. Only faster to use.
6. Incendiary Grenade, like you said same as molotov. Only thing interesting would be thermite grenade, but that would be too OP.
TotallyNotABot
New member
The point of the grenades and incendiary grenades are to be upgrades, not different. One does more damage and the other burns much longer then a Molotov. Also I don't think you guys realize how a flamethrowers works. It doesn't shoot a flame really, it shoots burning gas. Theres no way in hell a even a zombie can survive being covered in burning gas for more then 30 seconds before its completely cooked.
"Some flamethrowers project a stream of ignited flammable liquid" -Wikipedia. This is how a military grade flamethrower works. As I said before they KILL real life soldiers in seconds. Not minutes, SECONDS.
No they aren't incapacitated or unconscious from the pain, THEY ARE DEAD. PERIOD.
A zombie being a little moist is not going to save them from this. It may keep them alive for a second or 2 longer but they definitly will not be coming after you any time soon. cause you know. They're dead.
"Some flamethrowers project a stream of ignited flammable liquid" -Wikipedia. This is how a military grade flamethrower works. As I said before they KILL real life soldiers in seconds. Not minutes, SECONDS.
No they aren't incapacitated or unconscious from the pain, THEY ARE DEAD. PERIOD.
A zombie being a little moist is not going to save them from this. It may keep them alive for a second or 2 longer but they definitly will not be coming after you any time soon. cause you know. They're dead.
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TotallyNotABot
New member
No it's not that I wont accept criticism, its that I wont accept YOUR criticism. I will accept and listen to criticism when its well thought out, unbiased, and avoids being hypocritical, you however have all three of these problems in your criticism. When you can give criticism while avoiding the 3 problems I just listed then I will accept your criticism, but until then just ignore the topics I post m'kay?
7battlefrontline
New member
Your wrong im not big fan of the flamethrower but still cool idea, but katana is ligth weight and able to move quickly and the sword is heavy but good against cops if it was me the anvil should be set down seperate from the forge and then forge sword if it was me i would want to make my own weapons sure guns are good and the machete but sword weight would be heavy enough to slice through coconuts and machete would get stuck now the zombie bones would have been rotten enough to slice right through it.
The grenades would be efficient but i agree i wouldnt care about those or flame thrower but i made a comment for shields so if a feral attack you can just block and hit and they would go with swat team shield and the fansty game whole thing is already fanasty and at some point madmole had a conversation about there not going for realism its there game and most people will get over it and the rest will basically have to find a way to get over it the game dosent need to be exactly your way it every ones game
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Im going to be 100% on your side but add sheilds would be cool with it like swat team sheilds found at prison. Provides 75% protection has 200 hitpoints
The grenades would be efficient but i agree i wouldnt care about those or flame thrower but i made a comment for shields so if a feral attack you can just block and hit and they would go with swat team shield and the fansty game whole thing is already fanasty and at some point madmole had a conversation about there not going for realism its there game and most people will get over it and the rest will basically have to find a way to get over it the game dosent need to be exactly your way it every ones game
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Im going to be 100% on your side but add sheilds would be cool with it like swat team sheilds found at prison. Provides 75% protection has 200 hitpoints
Brian9824
New member
1. Well thought out. Pointed out nunerous reasons why and backed it up with evidence.
2. Unbiased... Umm ok I have no stake in game development and am not affiliated with the devs so I have no bias.
3. Hypocritical, I posted logical reasons why it would be bad, even stated im not against some of them but not at the trade off of losing other more important features.
So there you go. If you can't have someone disagree civiliy without throwing a fit then don't post, really simple. Just like you threw a fit when people disagreed with you in the more guns thread because you thought more guns would be "cool".
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Pille
Prefab Creator and Great Galactic Imperator
Umm ignoring Royal Deluxe's arguments doesn't make them go away. He is right. It doesn't matter if the human body is flammable.
The probablilty to get stuck is mainly a function of the penetration depth, the geometry of the spikes and whose physical properties (resilience and friction coefficient of metal). To me the spikes look very sharp and (and this is more important) irregularly arranged (<- increases the probablity to get stuck). Discussing this point is a bit pointless though because none of us can prove that the other is wrong. I have just one wish: Check your info before before writing it down. I mean it only takes seconds to find out that the spikes of the spiked club are pretty sharp.
Aside from irrelevance of this classification (common knowledge vs. 'uncommon' knowledge)*, you're still arguing in term of realism. Your whole viewpoint seems to based on the false assumption that the game has to be realistic. Even if all your arguments were correct, they would still be inappropriate.
Btw. either you haven't understood my logic or you try to invent statements I've never made. If the former is the case, it's probably my fault since I omitted the explanation for some obvious points (at least I thought they would be obvious).
Making solar cells requires a higher level of technology than crafting swords. Just because Intel can produce CPU's doesn't mean that the player should be able to make them. So you look at the individual amount of work (-> how difficult is the production of an item compared to other existing items), gameplay aspects and the consistency to the existing game world when implementing new craftable items. It's not like - "Hey the NASA is able to build space ships. That's why it should be a craftable vehicle".
TFP could implement craftable Solar Cells. This wouldn't be that absurd (even in real life).
https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Solar-Cells
*If you think that this distinction (common knowledge and 'uncommon' knowledge) is important than please take time to explain why. I am not a mind reader. Not yet.^^
Just another random assumption.
Thanks for sharing these trivial insights. I thought the game memory was unlimited. Lol. But seriously, I know that the 'game has limited memory to use and every item takes up memory'.
Adding new things is matter of priorities. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't have some variety and redundance. Your example is an exaggeration btw. You would exchange the bandit with (maybe) 5 new weapons. Usually a single weapon doesn't consume so much memory.
So why do you use the plural when you're actually talking about Madmole?
What are you talking about? According to the steam store page there is no official 32 bit support:
System Requirements:
MINIMUM:
OS: WindowsXP (Service Pack 3)
Processor: 2.4 Ghz Dual Core CPU
Memory: 6 GB RAM
Graphics: 1 GB Dedicated Memory
DirectX: Version 10
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Storage: 4 GB available space
Sound Card: Sound Card: DirectX® Compatible
Additional Notes: Running the Dedicated Server and Client on the same computer will double ram requirements. Also future releases may require more hard drive space.
32 Bit windows cannot address 6 GB. You should know this since you're working in the software industry, right? But again it's matter of priorities. Once we get a better combat system, a lot of people would like to have more weapons. They ARE important to the gameplay.
Are there any dev comments indicating that they're already at the limit?
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Brian9824
New member
I'm not going to argue with you because it's clear your mind is set. Feel free to believe what you will, if your not willing to listen it's pointless to argue.
There are quite a few posts about the devs saying they are constantly at the limit of the memory in the game, there is a 32 bit mode which madmole has mentioned repeatedly being a limitation. I'm not going to dig thru 5 years of posts though to prove what most of us who follow his posts already know.
I've said my piece, you've said yours. In the end we will see if the devs decide to add swords or anything else or if they stick with their statement that they will not and will let modders take care of that.
TotallyNotABot
New member
I didnt throw a fit..? I argued with you. If debating is throwing a fit then you yourself are throwing a fit.
Pille
Prefab Creator and Great Galactic Imperator
Not really. If your arguments were well thought out, I wouldn't disagree but they aren't.
Sorry but it's always the same predictable game. You pop in and invent some straw man arguments (e.g. "Your not going to find them (axe, sword, katana) laying around" - Nobody wants them laying around).
Then you're making some unexplained assumptions (e.g. swords have to be super balanced. I know you've explained this in one of your later comments. So that's just an example.) and arguments based on those assumptions or arguments only working in specific circumstances (e.g. "fire won't kill them (the zombies) quickly" - Why do we have to kill them quickly at all?).
At the end you cite the dev's opinion and indirectly say that the op's requests are pointless (at least that's how it looks to me). Moreover you tend to ignore most of the counterarguments.
In a nutshell, you provide us with a huge target. So please be more constructive and improve your argumentation (don't use straw-mans, explain your assumptions, don't only consider specific situations (or explain us why)).
Yes, there was an officially supported 32 bit mode. That's why we have these posts from Madmole. But now we need 6 GB ram minimum due to significant changes in A16. So the questions are, do they drop the 32 bit support at some point and what can be achieved when TFP improve the memory usage.
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Royal Deluxe
New member
maybe they can simply finish the game with 32bit support and then make a 64Bit only dlc
apostrophe
New member
Navezgane is a big place, I bet you'd find a tacticool guy or two around, with swords and ♥♥♥♥ in their bedrooms.
Khulkhuum
New member
Guys, guys...
Not going into discussion about whether this is possible or not to implement these. THIS IS A SUGGESTION THREAD.
Concernign realism vs gameplay - each of the current weapons could lodge into a zombie body, especially the fatter ones like fatso, fat lady and cop. Unless you're using only the tip of the blade (it doesn't dig deep enough) it's a matter of how much flesh it goes through. The momentum slows down when it hits resistance, which is why even a sharpened axe requires a big swing to cut through pieces of wood (even so, at some moment it simply splits apart and is not cut through). Lumberjacks need many hits against a tree with an axe, chipping away on the trunk before they can fell a tree.
Now imagine using a knife or machete. These would lodge even easier in a Z. Clubs are used for smashing, yet i predict the would also to some extent lodge in zombie bodies. Sledge hammers sometimes lodge into their targets and need to be pulled out.
In summary, this game doesn't think about "pulling back your weapon from a hit". You simply swing and do damage, like in many other games. That is far less realism then you would expect.
Not going into discussion about whether this is possible or not to implement these. THIS IS A SUGGESTION THREAD.
Concernign realism vs gameplay - each of the current weapons could lodge into a zombie body, especially the fatter ones like fatso, fat lady and cop. Unless you're using only the tip of the blade (it doesn't dig deep enough) it's a matter of how much flesh it goes through. The momentum slows down when it hits resistance, which is why even a sharpened axe requires a big swing to cut through pieces of wood (even so, at some moment it simply splits apart and is not cut through). Lumberjacks need many hits against a tree with an axe, chipping away on the trunk before they can fell a tree.
Now imagine using a knife or machete. These would lodge even easier in a Z. Clubs are used for smashing, yet i predict the would also to some extent lodge in zombie bodies. Sledge hammers sometimes lodge into their targets and need to be pulled out.
In summary, this game doesn't think about "pulling back your weapon from a hit". You simply swing and do damage, like in many other games. That is far less realism then you would expect.