My Solution to fix END GAME

[Scopes]

I've played this game for years, but every playthrough seems to be the same with no matter who I'm playing with. We pick a nice little spot to live and stay there forever because its sustainable and theres no NEED to leave. The only time we go explore other cities is out of boredom. I'm sick of all the friends I invite to the game quitting over "Purple-itus" where they get a few level 6 purple items then feel like the game is over and QUIT around Day 20.

The solution? Constantly increase the loot level and zombie health throughout the game so you have to keep looting to find/craft better and better versions with increased damage stats of your weapons to keep up with the ever increasing power of the zombies. There MUST be a way to power scale weapons and zombies endgame. Capping out at level 6 is SO BORING for a game literally built on longevity.
 

In conjunction with that, make it to where the Trader can't tell you to quest at a location you've already quested at so it CANNOT reset. If anyone says, "But then small towns would get exhausted fast!".....that's GOOD! Go to the next town! Now more of the map is explored! Thats what the dev's wanted right? They added this entire convoluted magazine learning system to supposedly incentivize exploration and constant looting.

The combination of these 2 changes I'm proposing would have you literally explore the entire map or you die because you can't keep up with the zombie level otherwise. Isn't that the point of this game!?!? Why pour so much time and effort into programming this amazing Map Generator in the game but then have a contradictory system that allows players to just kickback and relax in a small pocket on the map? And if it seems daunting to have to travel so much because of these changes...just compensate for it. Make vehicles faster or add Fast Travel Teleporting between traders.

The game NEEDS this. It's mama bird pushing the player out of the nest and into a vast untapped world. It would revitalize the game in so many ways and give it WAY MORE replayability. A constant drive to keep going, an ongoing purpose needing to be fulfilled, an indefinite willingness to SURVIVE.

 

[thatguybeard]

I mean I generate my own drive to go and explore the map as I am sure many others do. I don’t see any problems with people who want to kick back and relax in a small pocket on the map and I wouldn’t want to take that away from them.

Plus the planned addition of story I am sure will need exploration to complete.

 

[Scopes]

I mean I generate my own drive to go and explore the map as I am sure many others do. I don’t see any problems with people who want to kick back and relax in a small pocket on the map and I wouldn’t want to take that away from them.

Plus the planned addition of story I am sure will need exploration to complete.

This is where we get into the weeds on what a player is "obligated" to do in a game. Sure, ultimately its all subjective and up to the player to do whatever he wants. He can decide not to progress in a game like Super Mario, instead of reaching the end of the level, merely jumping around on obstacles back and forth for fun. The developers had an intended path/goal but the player has the volition to disregard it. But I think it's still the developers role to have an intended path, like a narrator telling a story. Are they really going for stagnation in this game? Lulling around like its farmville? I feel like their intended path is for Survival. Looting, exploring, adapting to the environment.

 

[thatguybeard]

This is where we get into the weeds on what a player is "obligated" to do in a game. Sure, ultimately it’s all subjective and up to the player to do whatever he wants. He can decide not to progress in a game like Super Mario, instead of reaching the end of the level, merely jumping around on obstacles back and forth for fun. The developers had an intended path/goal but the player has the volition to disregard it. But I think it's still the developers role to have an intended path, like a narrator telling a story. Are they really going for stagnation in this game? Lulling around like its farmville? I feel like their intended path is for Survival. Looting, exploring, adapting to the environment.

The added story will give you that linear path you crave, though advocating for this game to be more like Mario strikes me as a little strange. I’m hoping the story can be completely ignored. Don’t really understand how forcing players to follow a path removes stagnation. You’re talking about limiting players options which to me more options equals less stagnation.
 

Why take away someone’s ability to do a FarmVille run. You can already loot, explore, and with the coming Storms Brewing update adapt to the environment.

 

[Riamus]

Limiting how people play the game is generally a bad decision in this game.  If there are optional have settings, it is fine.

As far as how this game is designed, it is intended to be replayed over and over rather than continue to play the same game for hundreds of days.  The devs had said their intended game length for a single save is around 70 days as of 1.0.  After that, you can choose to continue playing if you want, but the game won't keep getting harder.  Instead, you can start a new game, which is the intended path. 

This game should not have infinite incremental stat increases on equipment or zombies just so you can feel like you are getting better forever.  That isn't what this game is.  If you really want that, there are other games to play.  Not all games have to work the same.

 

[warmer]

I'd like to see the horde numbers in areas increase if you don't clean them out. Now you can clean out an area and they don't respawn for x amount of time depending on the location. We should have a multiplier for spawn limit after a certain game stage, so if you don't visit them for a week, you come back and it's 3x the typical zeds per chunk. That to me is what is needed. If you don't increase spawn rates per chunk as game stage progresses, the game begins to feel WAY TOO EASY once you are capable of one shotting basic zeds. I crank the spawn up 3x and 1/2 the respawn delay and this gives me a much slower paced (moving through areas) but I level quickly.

 

[aceguy7]

I think part of the problem is everybody has an idea or opinion how a zombie survival game plays out...lol Everyone plays in different ways likes different paths to approach the "end game"...For me I think this game needs to go beyond just killing zombies and looting....It needs more things to keep you busy, for a crafting game it doesn't have many crafting work type benches...Id like to see a hide tannery to turn hide to leather for armor? (seems tedious but keeps you busy) maybe a construction bench of some sort for place able items to decorate your base, Maybe a dye station to produce different color dyes for painting,  A repair bench to fix your tools or weapons for dukes at a trader?...A wardrobe bench to organize your armor which may come in the wardrobe update? food preservation box for food spoilage?  Better farming system... Just a few more things to keep the player more engaged in a survival crafting game, instead of just kill zombies loot rinse repeat....hopefully more end game goals coming soon.

 

[bdubyah]

This is where item degradation being taken out hurts the game. Especially now that you can craft Q6 stuff. Item degradation was a big motivator to keep you out looting and killing, trying to find what you need to keep your tools/weapons in good shape.

 

[FramFramson]

This is where item degradation being taken out hurts the game. Especially now that you can craft Q6 stuff. Item degradation was a big motivator to keep you out looting and killing, trying to find what you need to keep your tools/weapons in good shape.

I mean, maintenance costs are sort of a motivation, but item degradation is insufferable and devalues very rare finds (the last couple Zeldas had weapons-as-consumables and while that's a very different game, it makes weapon finds almost entirely uninteresting). I'd say it was a wash on balance.

But none of that is really about fun, about there being actual goals. "Keep my weapons up" is more a means to an end rather than a goal in and of itself.

Unfortunately, with Blood Moons capped to 64 zombies total, the skill threshold and material requirements for staying alive during BMs has a fairly modest cap (especially with even minimal multiplayer), making the mid-to-end game can get quite easy once you have some experience with it. And there's only so many T5 POIs to run.

I don't know what the best solution is for an endgame addition, be it a single POI or some additional difficulty scaling factors, but it needs to be an actual challenge, something where you can actually put all your endgame gear to use. 

 

[bdubyah]

Eh, to each their own I guess. Finding part to make the next Q6 weapon knowing mine was finally about to break down kept me motivated to keep looting. The current system where once you craft one Q6 you no longer have a need for that item sucks.

 

[Riamus]

Eh, to each their own I guess. Finding part to make the next Q6 weapon knowing mine was finally about to break down kept me motivated to keep looting. The current system where once you craft one Q6 you no longer have a need for that item sucks.

At the same time, crafting the same Q6 weapon over and over just because it keeps breaking isn't exactly fun.  I don't mind durability in a game where you're going to keep finding or making better and better equipment, but if you're just replacing one item with the exact same item over and over, there just isn't any point.  It just becomes busybody work.

 

[bdubyah]

At the same time, crafting the same Q6 weapon over and over just because it keeps breaking isn't exactly fun.  I don't mind durability in a game where you're going to keep finding or making better and better equipment, but if you're just replacing one item with the exact same item over and over, there just isn't any point.  It just becomes busybody work.

One person's busybody work is a goal to someone else. It's all subjective.

 

[Suxar]

Unfortunately, with Blood Moons capped to 64 zombies total

This is limited only by the power of your computer. If you play on a PC, you can edit the file and set the desired number. For a dedicated server, this setting is also set in the server settings. The only ones who cannot increase the number are console players.

 

[Riamus]

One person's busybody work is a goal to someone else. It's all subjective.

Yet a goal is something to strive to achieve.  A neverending replacement of an item wouldn't be a goal because you can't achieve anything since you're just repeating the same thing in a loop.  But if that's what someone enjoys doing, then there's nothing wrong with it.  I just don't see any point in an endless loop of gathering resources to craft the same item and repeat ad nauseum.  I'd rather have an actual goal of gathering resources (usually much more than you'd be gathering to re-craft the same item over and over unless you're playing for 100s of days) to craft some really interesting base.  At least that is achievable.

Besides, by the time I'm crafting Q6 items, I am already getting enough resources without even trying to gather resources for a specific need (i.e. re-crafting my Q6 item when it breaks) to easily craft the Q6 items over and over again.  There's no effort in getting the resources because I already have them and continue to get them as I just play the game.

 

[bdubyah]

Besides, by the time I'm crafting Q6 items, I am already getting enough resources without even trying to gather resources for a specific need (i.e. re-crafting my Q6 item when it breaks) to easily craft the Q6 items over and over again.  There's no effort in getting the resources because I already have them and continue to get them as I just play the game.

If the game was balanced better this wouldn't be the case, at least to me. TBF I don't play a lot of vanilla. Just started a game with a buddy who is fairly new to the game, so we are just doing vanilla to keep it simple and it surprises me how easy the game still is. I do have most settings default, especially difficulty as the zombie-extendo reach on a P2P game irritates him a lot. But even with all the changes to water and food, trader prices and rewards, the game is Minecraft easy still. I think that plays a part in people getting bored. There's no challenge past maybe day 1 unless you are really new or really bad at the game.

And I'd imagine you'd have the goal of gathering enough mats to craft a base regardless of whether item degradation existed or not. It would just be a side objective to keep in mind while out and about. The fix to "end game" and stuff people like the OP talk about doesn't have to be on big change, it can be several smaller ones that combine to keep you busy.

 

[Riamus]

Like I said, if people like it, it's fine for them.  It just isn't what I would look for in end game content.  End game content would be something that you can do that actually provides a way to improve in some way.  Alternatively, it can just be content that provides a clear "end" to the game.  I am pretty sure TFP will just do the second option, though we'll see.  If you are at the max of what you can do, then it doesn't matter how many times you have to replace a broken item, you're still not progressing and so you either start a new game or you're going to get bored.  You can extend it by using your ability to easily deal with everything as a way to build something really impressive or because you enjoy wiping the floor with the zombies without any trouble now that you're maxed out with stuff or because you want to complete all challenges.  Things like that can extend things somewhat after reaching that max point (all main perks unlocked that improve your ability to fight, all Q6 gear, high enough level to have good health and stamina, etc).  However, you're still going to be bored of the current game once you've done whatever things you want to do in the end game.  More busy work doesn't extend that.

What does extend it are things like having the ability to completely clear a town so that you can have a goal to clear out all of the zombies, or having the ability to build up to a point where you are rescued, or having the game be one where equipment and skills just incrementally get better forever (I like that kind of game, but that isn't what I think is best for this game) so that you can keep "progressing"... things like that.  Things that can be accomplished or that keep progression going.  Not something that does nothing but leave you where you already were even after completing it.

For example... let's say I'm at the end game and have done everything to where I feel like that game is getting boring.  One second I have a weapon that works and the next, it's broken.  Being that it's the end game, I likely have a ton of resources handy and so I build the weapon again.  I now am still in the same spot I was before it broke.  I didn't actually gain anything other than now having a full durability weapon (a repair kit does the same thing, just for fewer resources).  Now, if I didn't have the resources for some strange reason and had to go get them, then I'm going out to loot one or more POI, depending what I need, or I am going out to mine.  That is something I could do without needing a broken weapon to get me to do.  I suppose you can say that it "forces" you to go scavenge or mine if you don't really feel like it, but is that really going to make the end game any more exciting if it's not what you really want to be doing and you needed to be forced to do it instead of just going out and doing it on your own?

 

[BFT2020]

For example... let's say I'm at the end game and have done everything to where I feel like that game is getting boring.  One second I have a weapon that works and the next, it's broken.  Being that it's the end game, I likely have a ton of resources handy and so I build the weapon again.  I now am still in the same spot I was before it broke.  I didn't actually gain anything other than now having a full durability weapon (a repair kit does the same thing, just for fewer resources).

With legendary parts, it is not that simple.  You might have enough parts / legendary parts to rebuild the weapon item, or you might not have to and now have to craft a lower quality weapon based on what you have.  And I am talking from experience as I mod the game to do just that.

I have at times crafted a lower level tool to save on legendary parts to get by.

Though not everyone would like that gameplay, but it doesn't do what you are suggesting.

 

[Riamus]

With legendary parts, it is not that simple.  You might have enough parts / legendary parts to rebuild the weapon item, or you might not have to and now have to craft a lower quality weapon based on what you have.  And I am talking from experience as I mod the game to do just that.

I have at times crafted a lower level tool to save on legendary parts to get by.

Though not everyone would like that gameplay, but it doesn't do what you are suggesting.

No, it moves you backwards in progression.  Your goal isn't to go backwards.  That also isn't what I would expect out of end game content.