PC Listen up Fun Pimps!

[Crater Creator]

Adding more loot is not "content".
We need stuff to do. Goals to achive.

This is not minecraft where it is all about building.

It CAN be. But then its not a survival game.

"Content" I mean:

Then I disagree with you on what content is.  Whenever a developer adds models, textures, animations, or effects to the game, they're adding stuff that you didn't see or experience in the game before.  That's content.  Whenever a world builder adds a new, original dungeon crawl location, that's content.  The whole job of every game artist, if not other devs, is to produce content.

If this were a released game, new models/textures/animations/effects/POIs would be sold as DLC.  DLC is short for downloadable content.

You say the game needs NPCs/bandits/story and stuff to do.  Matt115 questions whether something like new traffic lights change the game.  I'm not taking issue with either of those sentiments.  But I object to using such a limited definition, which seems to be that TFP aren't adding the specific features you most want and that means they're not adding content.

 

[JoeDaFrogman]

Would be great if the traders at least wandered around their POIs.

If I ever get the chance, I would love to make a trader POI of any of the existing traders.  That way it might be more believable when you bump into another Jen but in a different POI....

"why yes, I do have a twin sister, also named Jen.    Our parents were @%$#s.  Sorry."

 

[meganoth]

never said it needs to be complex additions. But right now, we have nothing.

But there is nothing in 7D2D we only know of a duke. Nothing more.
I said this a lot. This isn't an RPG because there is no story to play a character in.
It is an empty world. You can pretend to be cheeseman McFly in Fifa, that doesnt make it an RPG

I will refrain from telling you that these old games shouldn't be a standart because they were limited by their times.
But what I will tell you is that...
honestly I don't know anymore xD I just wanted to say that without hating on these old classics.

If you can replace an NPC with a questboard, it is not an NPC. Not even by MMO standarts (where they can't move bc of syncing)

 

For me Trader Rect is much more alive than those NPCs in the old games. Yes, there is no story about him, but the few sentences (as long as you haven't heard them a hundred times) give some character.

Now story. Did you ever buy an RPG game in Early Access or some form of beta? Because they feared that the story would be common knowledge even before the game reached release most RPG games either don't do open beta at all or restrict the beta/EA to the first few chapters.

I don't know how TFP will do it, but it wouldn't surprise me if much of the story doesn't show up in EA at all or is added at the last possible moment.

 

[Matt115]

Bandits were good enough for you. They were good enough for the modders who re-enabled them. But obviously they were not good enough for TFP.

I don't know the criterias on which TFP decided this. But it is like a soccer game where the referee says this was no goal and you as spectator say it was a goal. You can say it as often as you like but the newspaper the next day will print there was no goal. End of story.

i know it is subjective but... i don't say i support this but- people complaing about long develpment period. So if they added this + story this would avoid this complaining. Because we would get "1.0" few year ago maybe in 2017-2018. ofc now whatever TFP would do with this people will complain about long period

For me Trader Rect is much more alive than those NPCs in the old games. Yes, there is no story about him, but the few sentences (as long as you haven't heard them a hundred times) give some character.

Now story. Did you ever buy an RPG game in Early Access or some form of beta? Because they feared that the story would be common knowledge even before the game reached release most RPG games either don't do open beta at all or restrict the beta/EA to the first few chapters.

I don't know how TFP will do it, but it wouldn't surprise me if much of the story doesn't show up in EA at all or is added at the last possible moment.

i have to agree- boba fett have only few sentece and  is so popular.  Well even games with good story- like castlevania have "static" npc.

Well i still hope story will be added as "lore" in l4d2 style

 

[DiegoLBC1]

Whenever a developer adds models, textures, animations, or effects to the game, they're adding stuff that you didn't see or experience in the game before.  That's content.  (...)

(...) But I object to using such a limited definition, which seems to be that TFP aren't adding the specific features you most want and that means they're not adding content.

I've seen forum posts a lot, and most of the "complaints" look the same because of this. I even mentioned this in another thread.

 

[Darklegend222]

I've seen forum posts a lot, and most of the "complaints" look the same because of this. I even mentioned this in another thread.

I feel the biggest thing issue about the game getting new ideas, content, and a very large player base is that the game is extremely open. You can nearly play however you want and then you get a bunch of people on a thread who are all playing drastically differently and have many conflicting opinions with each other.

It's hard for the devs to directly say "well we're adding content, we don't care about you right now", I don't believe the devs are AVOIDING suggestions that a majority of the playerbase want. They're on a schedule and that schedule doesn't have every minor thing that each individual wants. Look at farming or cooking, people are split down the middle.

It's gotten to a point where the moderators have simply taken to nearly copy-pasting the same paragraph because there's nothing they can do about it, and the devs are not very interested in taking another year or 2 so they can cater to every single individual on this forum or to resolve every dispute.

It'd be nice if the developers were more open with what they're currently working on so we have some idea, but we never hear about how many tests, scrapped ideas, or implementations just failed. It would give them a bad image in my opinion, so I think they're doing what they can.

Modding isn't entirely a solution for players to get what they want, however the majority of games can't be modded in a traditional manner like this one to add or change small things. This game is very customisable with mods, so it's the next best thing for players to get what the devs won't do.

The devs are in a position of making the game THEY want, and the people who dislike it are more than free to make/download mods to cater to the way THEY want to play as well.  It's not something a lot of customers like to hear in an Early Access game being developed, so the moderators have to be in a position to slap a band-aid on it and hope the issue goes away with their copy-pastes.

 

[Roland]

Define "character".

An entity in the game that could be played by a real person but is played by the computer. Could my character controlled by me stand behind that counter and sell stuff from my inventory to people who came in and tell them to go clear a particular POI and then come back for a reward? Yes I could. As a player character I could do what the traders do. The traders even have different personalities. They are not just blackboards indistinguishable from each other. Your litmus test for what constitutes an NPC is way higher than anything I've ever seen.

It's great to have high standards and I'm not arguing this to try and convince TFP to not strive for excellence and just go with what we have now. But you are just way off on what qualifies as an NPC. The traders definitely do AND I hope TFP doesn't leave it at that and does more. I hope we have Noah and The Duke and that at least a few of the bandits might be lieutenant rank and have some personality and interactivity besides simply attack and kill.

Honestly, the zombies themselves are NPCs when it comes right to it. In fact, one of the stretch goals was that players would be able to play as zombies. So if zombies are going to be player controlled characters then that makes the computer controlled ones NPCs.

I get you don't want TFP to define NPCs so loosely but that doesn't mean you have to morph the definition of an NPC past all recognition. I think your personal definitions of "NPC" and "content" are unrealistic enough to lead you to disappointment again and again-- and not just with this game.

You can call the traders bulletin boards but the fact is that they weren't implemented as bulletin boards. They were implemented as characters. You are correct that their functions are pretty limited and I agree with you completely that TFP should reach as high as they are able. I'd like to see better NPCs for sure.

It's gotten to a point where the moderators have simply taken to nearly copy-pasting the same paragraph

I'll have you know I have completely and lovingly re-written them every single time!

 

[8_Hussars]

TFPs need to hire Greg...|
 

 

[meganoth]

i know it is subjective but... i don't say i support this but- people complaing about long develpment period. So if they added this + story this would avoid this complaining. Because we would get "1.0" few year ago maybe in 2017-2018. ofc now whatever TFP would do with this people will complain about long period

So? The forums main function IS complaining (about bugs, wants and dislikes). The devs have to decide on which to act. And luckily for many here they don't listen to people who want to make business decisions for them. They decided to keep developing in EA until they are satisfied with the game. And thats it, a dead horse subject actually.

I don't know why you try to find a solution for people who argue a lost case. Or discuss alternative realities in which TFP could have finished the game years ago. They could, but they didn't. They had the power to cut short development at any time even before A16, adding a few NPCs with a gun in hand standing around and calling them bandits or even saying "we will add bandits after release" is easy. And they have that power now as well, but I'm pretty sure they won't.

If they had finished the 1.0 a few years ago, this forum would be mainly complaining about basic gameplay not changing enough for making the game fresh again. Exactly why many people here on the forum are telling TFP to please stay in alpha because that gives a fresh experience every year.

i have to agree- boba fett have only few sentece and  is so popular.  Well even games with good story- like castlevania have "static" npc.

Well i still hope story will be added as "lore" in l4d2 style

Boba Fett is an excellent example. And reminded me of another one: Minsc. Most people who played Baldurs Gate loved Minsc, and Minsc is the archetype of a character defined by a few funny one-liners.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

But I'm starting to see the dilemma that you face.  Looking at Steam's concurrent players historical data, after major updates it seems I'm not the only one who plays for a bit and then puts it off again after giving it a play or two after a 'major update'. You're trying to increase your player-base, keep the game alive, and keep it up-to-date. For that, people truly appreciate it - as you're one of the few indie devs who have stood by their "Alpha" game. Despite the game still being in "Alpha", it's honestly a complete game by this point and I'm sure many would agree with me.

The player base is still bigger than ever. Sure it was going down after the release peak but that´s normal.

And no it´s not complete. The map generation needs a lot of work (FOr example all T5 poi´s at least once per map, why is this so hard?) , the NPC´s aren´t in yet, the story is missing, The balancing is still way off, we have 300 levels and can beat everything with level 50.

 

[Matt115]

So? The forums main function IS complaining (about bugs, wants and dislikes). The devs have to decide on which to act. And luckily for many here they don't listen to people who want to make business decisions for them. They decided to keep developing in EA until they are satisfied with the game. And thats it, a dead horse subject actually.

I don't know why you try to find a solution for people who argue a lost case. Or discuss alternative realities in which TFP could have finished the game years ago. They could, but they didn't. They had the power to cut short development at any time even before A16, adding a few NPCs with a gun in hand standing around and calling them bandits or even saying "we will add bandits after release" is easy. And they have that power now as well, but I'm pretty sure they won't.

If they had finished the 1.0 a few years ago, this forum would be mainly complaining about basic gameplay not changing enough for making the game fresh again. Exactly why many people here on the forum are telling TFP to please stay in alpha because that gives a fresh experience every year.

Boba Fett is an excellent example. And reminded me of another one: Minsc. Most people who played Baldurs Gate loved Minsc, and Minsc is the archetype of a character defined by a few funny one-liners.

1. Well adding a few npc standing around could be solution. But "we will add bandits after relase" coudn't work- because people would sue TFP (USA law is strange so idk if TFP would won or not).  Well why i do this? because... what more left? Well if they ended few years ago they could working  on maybe  for example 7dtd-medival. This would be bigger refreshment right?  Well they are changing a lot but now it for my point of view more like "polishing" that adding things - more poi will not change gameplay or balance, RWG too- if they don't implement lore to this poi.  New guns and drones change things and it is new content. But only we get one new zombie - rest of them are redesign. vehicle mods are more "life improvment" that typical content  

The player base is still bigger than ever. Sure it was going down after the release peak but that´s normal.

And no it´s not complete. The map generation needs a lot of work (FOr example all T5 poi´s at least once per map, why is this so hard?) , the NPC´s aren´t in yet, the story is missing, The balancing is still way off, we have 300 levels and can beat everything with level 50.

I think it even too big- if  player base is small probably have similiar " view"

 

[fragtzack]

After some thought, I've come to realize why I am whining in the wrong direction.

Fixed for you. Welcome.

 

[Roland]

Well adding a few npc standing around could be solution. But "we will add bandits after relase" coudn't work- because people would sue TFP (USA law is strange so idk if TFP would won or not). 

Nobody would sue. Nobody would win if they tried which is why nobody would sue. TFP stated even in their kickstarter that some features might not be added until after full release. One of those features was originally going to be random world generation. Maybe you did not realize that at one time we had Navezgane, Horde Mode, and Arena Battle and that was it. There was no random world generator and it was slated for development after the game was released. Navezgane was going to be the only map that they shipped the game with (although they entertained the possibility of creating a second map briefly before they chose to go for RWG early)

At some point they shuffled their priorities and RWG landed near the top and bandits as we have seen got punted. They could easily state that during development they determined that the features needed to switch and that bandits became one of those that would be added after full release as a free DLC to replace RWG which they shifted forward. >shrug<

They won't do this. But I am betting "The Story" will be the feature chosen to be added as an after release DLC to take the place of their originally planned after release random world generation DLC.

The point is that they can choose to do any feature after release as long as they follow through and do it-- and even if they don't, the worst they will suffer is bad press and opinion by the gaming community which may or may not impact their next game's sales. So it is better for them to deliver on all goals and I know they are planning to do so. Of course, there will always be debate by those who don't feel that what TFP offers actually fulfills the promise. Any feature that isn't done good enough to satisfy a rando's pie in the sky expectations will be seen by that dude as TFP reneging on their promise.

 

[Boidster]

Nobody would win if they tried which is why nobody would sue.

Hello, welcome to the United States! Since you're new here, allow me to show you the DC Circuit Court docket from, say, late 2020 through today.  

 

[Matt115]

Nobody would sue. Nobody would win if they tried which is why nobody would sue. TFP stated even in their kickstarter that some features might not be added until after full release. One of those features was originally going to be random world generation. Maybe you did not realize that at one time we had Navezgane, Horde Mode, and Arena Battle and that was it. There was no random world generator and it was slated for development after the game was released. Navezgane was going to be the only map that they shipped the game with (although they entertained the possibility of creating a second map briefly before they chose to go for RWG early)

At some point they shuffled their priorities and RWG landed near the top and bandits as we have seen got punted. They could easily state that during development they determined that the features needed to switch and that bandits became one of those that would be added after full release as a free DLC to replace RWG which they shifted forward. >shrug<

They won't do this. But I am betting "The Story" will be the feature chosen to be added as an after release DLC to take the place of their originally planned after release random world generation DLC.

The point is that they can choose to do any feature after release as long as they follow through and do it-- and even if they don't, the worst they will suffer is bad press and opinion by the gaming community which may or may not impact their next game's sales. So it is better for them to deliver on all goals and I know they are planning to do so. Of course, there will always be debate by those who don't feel that what TFP offers actually fulfills the promise. Any feature that isn't done good enough to satisfy a rando's pie in the sky expectations will be seen by that dude as TFP reneging on their promise.

1. Idk- i hear about few situation like this- idk how it was ended but some studios was sued. i remember the arena battle . okay expended story is in "post released" section. my mistake.  But idk about bandits - they are in " describtion" but npc are in post released section so idk well so i'm not sure about that

 

[Roland]

Hello, welcome to the United States! Since you're new here, allow me to show you the DC Circuit Court docket from, say, late 2020 through today.  

I guess you're right. Plenty would sue.

Plaintiff: Your Honor, TFP promised to add bandits as part of their stretch goals which is what I based my pledge on and bandits haven't been added even though they released their game. I either want my money back or for them to be forced to add bandits

Judge: What does the plaintiff have to say?

TFP: We have bandits slated as our first DLC 

Judge: Case closed!

 

[JCrook1028]

So bandits were finished they could just add them. 

Bandits were never "finished".

 

[Matt115]

Bandits were never "finished".

They were - just someone from TFP they works bad.  So in theory they could works similiar to minecraft'mobs

 

[Boidster]

Bandits were never "finished".

They were - just someone from TFP they works bad.

AKA "the artist who decides when the art is 'finished'."

 

[Matt115]

AKA "the artist who decides when the art is 'finished'."

Yes and no. few games in the past was ready to released but thes never happend because: bancrupcy, selling company etc. 

So sometimes happen that something is ready but developers decided to throw this  to bin