Jars, Dew Collectors, And Survival

[Suxar]

The Federal Government. See the 3rd bullet point, here:

Emergency Disinfection of Drinking Water | US EPA

How to boil and disinfect water to kill most disease-causing microorganisms during emergency situations where regular water service has been interrupted and local authorities recommend using only bottled water, boiled water, or disinfected water.

www.epa.gov

I only knew because when I rotate the water in my emergency provisions I need to use a little bleach in the containers.

Some recommendations are unexpected for me. This is especially true for chlorine bleach. It is used to disinfect surfaces, but for food products, let alone water, I hear about it for the first time. Usually, it is recommended to use potassium permanganate KMnO₄. Iodine is usually used as an additive in case of radiation contamination, to protect the thyroid gland.

I don't mind the Dew/Rain Collector. It's a real thing. A survivor would make something like it. I know I would take my plastic shower curtain and catch rain in a trashcan. I'd probably also divert the downspouts from my roof into trash bins. That said, it isn't always raining, so I'd probably also walk two blocks to the river and get water.

In real life, I would make a condensate collector out of a shower curtain. Fortunately, you don't need anything special to make it, except for a curtain and some container. And it works almost always, and you'll get clean water right away. Although a transparent piece of polyethylene would be much better instead of a curtain.

 

[8_Hussars]

Now, who would add bleach to their drinking water to purify it is anyone's guess. I certainly wouldn't. Purification tablets, otoh, I would probably craft and use.

I won't say treating water with bleach is common, other than the tens of thousands of swimming pools across the world. But it is a viable strategy for treating water in an emergency.

"Chlorine bleach and pool chlorine both contain chlorine compounds, but pool chlorine is much stronger, typically containing 65% calcium hypochlorite compared to about 5-6% sodium hypochlorite in household bleach. While bleach can be used to clean pools, it is less effective than pool-grade chlorine for sanitizing water."

IMHO, it's these types of survival mechanics that are sorely missing from 7d2d.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

The Federal Government. See the 3rd bullet point, here:

Emergency Disinfection of Drinking Water | US EPA

How to boil and disinfect water to kill most disease-causing microorganisms during emergency situations where regular water service has been interrupted and local authorities recommend using only bottled water, boiled water, or disinfected water.

www.epa.gov

Right. I trust the Federal Government completely when it comes to my health. Of course, it bought into DuPont's "better living through chemistry" philosophy long ago as well as Monsanto's bs, so I tend to take its recommendations with a grain of salt these days. Others' mileage may vary.

Boiling is sufficent for a video game methinks. Maybe distillation and the UV treatment as well.

 

[plzkthxbye]

When I see posts like this, I like to point out the system used by the Undead Legacy mod. Jar can only be crafted very late in the game and not in large quantities. It also takes a long time. Water from lakes, rivers, and ditches is considered contaminated and unusable. You have to get water from taps, boilers, and hydrants, but these sources are limited. Later in the game, you get a well, but it supplies water slowly, like the dew collector.

I think that sort of complexity is best reserved for a mod like Undead Legacy though, no? I've not played that mod yet, but I'm super interested in trying it out once it gets released for 2.0 (at least I'm sure hoping it gets released during 2.0's cycle). I recall reading that UL for A20 used systems that were much more complex than vanilla. That seems to be its wheelhouse as opposed to vanilla's.

 

[t3hp0larbear]

Jars were flawed as they were implemented. And there's a key flaw to it that I haven't seen pointed out much, which cascades into so many of the other design issues:

Why were empty jars able to be stacked so ridiculously high in quantity compared to drink container jars?

Andon that note, why is tainted water able to be stacked larger than purified water? This could have been solved easily by forcing jar stacks to 10 as with most drinks. It makes no sense that I'm able to open a cabinet and fit like 3750 empty jars or jars of murky water (15 stacks of 250, pulling numbers out of the air here), but the second I distill that water and/or make it into a tea, I can only put 150 jars of it in that same cabinet.

If empty jar stacks were limited in size, this would have solved so many of the design issues. Sure, I can craft a billion jars, but where am I going to put all of them? And no longer am I right-clicking once to fill every jar that I own instantly, making gathering more time consuming which is important in a game where you are in direct competition with the passage of time at all times. Hell, it really should have been that right clicking fills a single jar and not all of them in a stack.

Expanding on this, keeping dew and rain collectors would help automate all this and not much would need to be changed, and would help take the time consumption aspect out of water collection when you progress far enough to make them. Make it so chemistry stations distill water faster than campfires with pots (if they don't already).

 

[Paiper Zombee]

The reason why I liked this post was because it talked about how jars are just one example of how the design philosophy of the game has been changing for the worst over time. If players play in a way the Fun Pimps don't like, they will quickly find a way to delete that method. That's why some have taken to calling the devs the Fun Police instead of the Fun Pimps.

I don't recall ever hearing about players disliking jars and the old water collection system. Part of a survival game is learning how to solve the problems that hinder survival, and it was fine (to me) that the water problem could be solved on day 1, leaving me to worry about getting meat and seeds for a farm to try and get above those problems. But the Fun Pimps felt that the jar system was too easy for players, hence dew collectors.

I don't recall seeing players complain about the Learn By Perking leveling system, (which came before the current Learn By Magazine system), with the exception that some would ask for the Learn By Doing system to return. That switch to Learn By Magazine system was something the Fun Pimps decided needed to be done, and in the process they snatched away a lot of the player's freedom. Before, a player could level and gain perk benefits just from doing what they liked to do; base building, mining, etc. Now everything starts and ends with magazines. A player can level up without magazines, but there is no other way to gain the benefits from their perks without the magazines. This forces every player to have to play one specific way (which is the Fun Pimps way) if they want to advance their character.

I'm glad the town hall happened because it does show that the Fun Pimps are listening to us. I hope they keep listening because that's the only way this mis-steered ship is going to get righted.

 

[grz__]

The reason why I liked this post was because it talked about how jars are just one example of how the design philosophy of the game has been changing for the worst over time. If players play in a way the Fun Pimps don't like, they will quickly find a way to delete that method. That's why some have taken to calling the devs the Fun Police instead of the Fun Pimps.

what you say also affects other things in the game, people complain about everything, I've seen people complaining because now zombies can hit you within 2 blocks, because supposedly, they want to take away the fun of it, when in fact, it's something that increases the difficulty a bit, because it's too much cheese, that you can climb 2 blocks and survive anything, and people think they're special or something and they want to take away the fun of it. when in fact it's more fun now because you're not safe so easily, people have to learn to separate the real criticism, from the people who spend the day complaining about everything, and I know the post is about jars, but that paragraph affects many other things.

 

[Paiper Zombee]

what you say also affects other things in the game, people complain about everything, I've seen people complaining because now zombies can hit you within 2 blocks, because supposedly, they want to take away the fun of it, when in fact, it's something that increases the difficulty a bit, because it's too much cheese, that you can climb 2 blocks and survive anything, and people think they're special or something and they want to take away the fun of it. when in fact it's more fun now because you're not safe so easily, people have to learn to separate the real criticism, from the people who spend the day complaining about everything, and I know the post is about jars, but that paragraph affects many other things.

Yes it does, and yes people do complain about everything. But let's put this into perspective. People complaining about zombies being able to hit them within 2 blocks is because the zombie hit range has always been....strange. Some can only hit when they're up close, while others can hit from a further distance away. Old school players who run melee specs have known this for quite some time and know that they need to watch out for and/or be prepared for this artificial issue.

There are people who spend the day complaining about everything, and then there are people who offer real constructive criticism. I'm from that latter party, and if you read the entire post you'd know that it's not just about jars. It's about many other things.

 

[grz__]

Yes it does, and yes people do complain about everything. But let's put this into perspective. People complaining about zombies being able to hit them within 2 blocks is because the zombie hit range has always been....strange. Some can only hit when they're up close, while others can hit from a further distance away. Old school players who run melee specs have known this for quite some time and know that they need to watch out for and/or be prepared for this artificial issue.

There are people who spend the day complaining about everything, and then there are people who offer real constructive criticism. I'm from that latter party, and if you read the entire post you'd know that it's not just about jars. It's about many other things.

Yes, I know the post talks about several things, and with alternative solutions, I have only mentioned that paragraph, because I see that some people take the opportunity to criticize anything, which can later affect how TFP develops the game, you have mentioned that the players who have complained is because the range of the zombies is rare, in reality they complain because they can not cheese the game like before, for example before you build 2 blocks and you can hit the zombie without danger, now there is some risk of being hit, I never use that technique, but this affects normal gameplay, if you climb a wall or a fence, and I like it to be difficult and challenging, that's why I mentioned the paragraph, not your post about the water jars or the alternatives that I think some are good. and yes, the game has neglected survival in the latest versions, it's just that I want the real criticisms to be separated from the people who criticize everything.

 

[Invariel]

It was never about the jars.

You might think it's about the jars, but it isn't.

7 Days to Die is a survival horror crafting game. With zombies. And you're all missing the point so hard.

7 Days to Die is a resource management game which (admittedly) fails at resource management. You reach a critical juncture where you have far more than you could possibly use and you gain more than you spend with every interaction. (Just look at the thread complaining about having too much ammo.)

The particular issue around jars is not about jars. It was never about jars. It's about water.

The people that argue that the survival element of the game requires a water system want that water system to be irrelevant (re: 5000 jars filled with water on day one so that they don't have to interact with the system ever again). The problem is not that one can craft 5000 jars, or acquire 5000 jars of murky to-be-boiled water on day one, but that the resource of water is rendered moot.

The people that argue that jars have gone away and they cannot stockpile water as easily are upset that water is actually a resource to be played with. Dew collectors are an abstraction of water collection, and are a way to limit the amount of water resource the players have at the beginning of the game so that there are somewhat meaningful choices (glue vs. potable water vs. cooking).

But again, this is[n't] about jars.
"Why do these jars materialize out of nothing?" Because they don't matter. They're an abstraction.
"Why do the jars disappear after I drink the water?" I don't know, why do the pots containing stew or the pie plates containing pie or the magazines disappear when you use them? Surely adding a bunch of pots, pans, plates, and ... not spending books ... to your inventory would make the game more immersive. Right? This was never about jars.

If you want your precious jars, stop hounding the devs. Go to NexusMods, change the game to 7 Days to Die, search for "jar", and choose one of the myriad "put jars back into the game" options. (If you are on console, sorry, you don't get jars. But this still mostly applies to you.) Alternately, Steam players, just go find the version of the game that you most resonate with, install that version, and forget that jars even went away.

But, once again, it's not about the jars. It's about the resource. You just want ample access to water. But that is what the development team is trying to prevent. Giving you ample access to a resource that's supposed to be managed and maintained.

It's about the resources, and it's about the game systems; it was never about the jars.

So many people are complaining about wanting particular systems back, so here's a quick rundown of the ones I've seen complained about (by your favourite YouTubers):
1) Learn By Doing.

I really liked the Oblivion/Skyrim "do the thing until you get the stat" system, but it means that you can just avoid actually progressing with things until you've jumped your athletics stat to the maximum and crafted enough tier 1 hand axes that you can make steel tools. The system is fun, but it's counter to the concepts of a survival game. Could you integrate learn by doing with the magazine system (which I have issues with—I would love if putting points into skills raised my magazine skills by a few points instead of just raising magazine chances), probably. Learn by doing until a certain threshold, then require some other motivating factor to raise the learn by doing cap and grant a few points. But Learn by Doing by itself runs counter to actually playing the game.

2) Weather. Hunger. Thirst.

The complaints here seem to be that the systems were removed at all, but in reality they don't matter. (It's a survival game, of course they matter!!!) But they don't. You only ever really interact with those systems meaningfully at the very beginning of the game. Before you've actually found gear, levelled up, started farming or acquiring dukes or really getting into being able to explore POIs. Once you can confidently walk into a two or three skull building, you have more than enough levels that the weather doesn't actually affect you, food and beverage that the hunger and thirst systems aren't problems anymore. Food and water are only concerns for the first few days, and then you have enough to get by (or the resources to get enough to get by), and then you level up more and are able to find more and more food and water so that neither is actually a concern.

3) Jars.

Jars have been abstracted out of the game. They're there but they're not there. You effectively have a million (or a billion or whatever) jars, they just aren't carried on your person. You set up jars in the dew collectors so that the water fills them. You put them away afterwards so they don't take up precious inventory space. No, you can't walk over to the river or ditch to right-click and fill 125 of them at once with murky water anymore. But if you're still complaining about that you didn't read the part about resources above, so I've got nothing for you.

4) Smoothies.

You do realize that the new biome-appropriate consumables are just smoothies, right? They serve the same function as smoothies just with different names.

In conclusion, jars were never the problem. TFP are trying to plug what is essentially an infinite resources bug, replacing that system with one that asks you to do a little bit of work to get to a place where you have solved that resource issue by investing a different set of resources. I will be the first to admit that the initial implementation—gating dew collectors behind a merchant purchase—needed work. But we got there. Dew Collectors cost 100 polymer to start collecting water, and then an investment of dukes to streamline the process. It honestly puts the game in a better place, forcing the player to have to interact with the water system/resource issue instead of solving it as soon as the server starts up.

I am not claiming that 7D2D is perfect right now. I am claiming that you are complaining about the wrong things. It was never about the jars.

 

[theFlu]

But if you're still complaining about that you didn't read the part about resources above, so I've got nothing for you.

The problem with your resources -idea is that water doesn't Need to be a limiting resource. It's only used to craft glue, and having drones crafted from 60 rolls of Duct Tape is already stupid. Limiting the glue production by availability of water is even more stupid; you could limit it by tech tiers, bone availability, cooking times; once you find a river, water IS an infinite resource. Require other resources or even other types of glue.

But no, a drone must require 20 gallons of glue, so you can have a choice of day one whether to drink water or not ..

 

[Invariel]

It's not an "idea", it's a core concept of why survival games work. You're supposed to actually consider how to spend your resources (at least in the early game), and being able to say, on day one, "this is no longer a bottleneck" is a game design issue that needs to be solved in some way. In this case, it means not being able to mosey up to your nearest ditch and go, "now this problem is solved forever".

It's only used to craft glue

And to drink for hydration, and to craft other beverages, and to cook mid-level food, and to put yourself out if you ever light yourself on fire.

And, again, by the fourth or fifth dew collector, you now have a substantial source of water at your base that you don't even have to go run around to find. With upgrades that make that water not require fifty seconds of cooking time!

Jars are not the problem.

 

[Kyoji]

1) Learn By Doing.

I really liked the Oblivion/Skyrim "do the thing until you get the stat" system, but it means that you can just avoid actually progressing with things until you've jumped your athletics stat to the maximum and crafted enough tier 1 hand axes that you can make steel tools. The system is fun, but it's counter to the concepts of a survival game. Could you integrate learn by doing with the magazine system (which I have issues with—I would love if putting points into skills raised my magazine skills by a few points instead of just raising magazine chances), probably. Learn by doing until a certain threshold, then require some other motivating factor to raise the learn by doing cap and grant a few points. But Learn by Doing by itself runs counter to actually playing the game.

The issue with people complaining about this from what I have seen is that they had a system in place that needed some tweaks and scrapped it all with tons of development time to make the book/magazine concept which is still being worked on because it has issues. Also generally a proper LBD system would be more intuitive for people and in the eyes of many better than the current system which I don't dislike btw.

2) Weather. Hunger. Thirst.

The complaints here seem to be that the systems were removed at all, but in reality they don't matter. (It's a survival game, of course they matter!!!) But they don't. You only ever really interact with those systems meaningfully at the very beginning of the game. Before you've actually found gear, levelled up, started farming or acquiring dukes or really getting into being able to explore POIs. Once you can confidently walk into a two or three skull building, you have more than enough levels that the weather doesn't actually affect you, food and beverage that the hunger and thirst systems aren't problems anymore. Food and water are only concerns for the first few days, and then you have enough to get by (or the resources to get enough to get by), and then you level up more and are able to find more and more food and water so that neither is actually a concern.

They do matter. It's a survival game. The idea is that you should overcome the early game with difficulty and then go on to advance yourself. It makes the game more varied by having people focus on a few things at once than just all the focus looting all the time. If it's raining do I want to stay inside or risk going outside unprepared and catch a cold. Am I ready to head into the desert or the snow biome? You look forward to overcoming those challenges.

That is like saying the whole beginning and middle of any game is irrelevant because you will eventually just be strong enough to bypass it all. Having to deal with weaker monsters and then being able to smash them in one hit is what progression is all about in games and it provides truth to your growth as a player.

3) Jars.

Jars have been abstracted out of the game. They're there but they're not there. You effectively have a million (or a billion or whatever) jars, they just aren't carried on your person. You set up jars in the dew collectors so that the water fills them. You put them away afterwards so they don't take up precious inventory space. No, you can't walk over to the river or ditch to right-click and fill 125 of them at once with murky water anymore. But if you're still complaining about that you didn't read the part about resources above, so I've got nothing for you.

As someone who doesn't care about jars returning let me just say you clearly have missed the plot.

The issue goes back to LBD it was a superior system that needed some tweaking but instead was thrown out for dew collectors. I have already established why resource collection and difficulty is important. Also it gives water in the game value and makes it more than an aesthetic.

4) Smoothies.

You do realize that the new biome-appropriate consumables are just smoothies, right? They serve the same function as smoothies just with different names.

In conclusion, jars were never the problem. TFP are trying to plug what is essentially an infinite resources bug, replacing that system with one that asks you to do a little bit of work to get to a place where you have solved that resource issue by investing a different set of resources. I will be the first to admit that the initial implementation—gating dew collectors behind a merchant purchase—needed work. But we got there. Dew Collectors cost 100 polymer to start collecting water, and then an investment of dukes to streamline the process. It honestly puts the game in a better place, forcing the player to have to interact with the water system/resource issue instead of solving it as soon as the server starts up.

I am not claiming that 7D2D is perfect right now. I am claiming that you are complaining about the wrong things. It was never about the jars.

You do realize the issue was that it was incompetent or lazy development that made smoothies. Other games have been blasted for less so lets be fair in saying a smoothie to block against smoke inhalation is silly. The 2.0 update was blasted and rightfully so. The updates they are implementing are good and I look forward to them coming to the game. It's what 2.0 should have been on it's release.

 

[Invariel]

The issue with people complaining about this from what I have seen is that they had a system in place that needed some tweaks and scrapped it all with tons of development time to make the book/magazine concept which is still being worked on because it has issues. Also generally a proper LBD system would be more intuitive for people and in the eyes of many better than the current system which I don't dislike btw.

They had a system in place. And, for whatever internal reason, they removed it. The main problem with an LBD system is that you can use it to ignore the early and mid game—parts of the game that you acknowledge are relevant—by just jumping until your stats are maxxed out.

They do matter. It's a survival game.

They do matter, it's a survival game. The way they were implemented don't matter. "You are hot." Okay, great. This is displayed to me in a submenu of a menu and not on the UI (at the time that it "mattered"). And its effects are negligible and basically non-existent at all game stages. I acknowledge that the game feels less "realism" with their complete removal, but they weren't actually doing anything meaningful when they were a part of the game.

That said, to reiterate, the current hunger/thirst system in the game is already brutally punishing to players just starting out, which is the only time you're really struggling for food and water in the first place.

you clearly have missed the plot.

The plot is wrong. I urge you to reread the post, because jars were never the issue. The problem that TFP have decided to solve with dew collectors and making only murky water be looted is that water, as a system, was entirely sidestepped by players on the first couple of days. The resource management part of the water resource was managed by "I have jar, I fill jar, I boil jar, I drink jar, I have jar, lather, rinse, repeat as necessary." For water as a resource to be meaningful, there needs to be a sufficient sink in place to remove the resource from the system. That wasn't it.

The removal of "I can have as much water as I want whenever I want however I want because I want" as a system is less realistic. Granted. But it is better as an actual game mechanic of the game you are playing which is trying to remove resources from your system in different ways.

You do realize the issue was that it was incompetent or lazy development that made smoothies

You can hurl those words around if you want. I think the underlying problem was, "We need a temporary way to grant access to this dangerous place," and someone in a design meeting said, "How about we let them make drinks that let them do that," and then someone said, "Smoothies are nice," and they went with that. But if you're going to rag on smoothies but then say, "This functionally different thing with a brand new icon—BUT SHE'S GOT A NEW HAT!!!—is a more appropriate thing" just because the name is different, you're not mad about smoothies, you're mad that they're called smoothies, and have no actual issue with the problem that they're solving.

 

[theFlu]

It's not an "idea", it's a core concept of why survival games work.

Concepts are ideas.

You're supposed to actually consider how to spend your resources (at least in the early game), and being able to say, on day one, "this is no longer a bottleneck" is a game design issue

Day one, week one, the "choice for glue" you're making is a pipe weapon. It's a non-choice, just don't make one.
Once you start getting past the pointless weapons, you're already flooded with water, there's no choice later on either.

And to drink for hydration

Yes, that's the obvious other use for water; and it's never a choice. You drink, and you stockpile the surplus. There's no choice.
The situation has gone from:
Craft a few jars, and have all the water you need.
to
Have all the water you need. Maybe craft a Dewbie if you really want.

 

[Kyoji]

They had a system in place. And, for whatever internal reason, they removed it. The main problem with an LBD system is that you can use it to ignore the early and mid game—parts of the game that you acknowledge are relevant—by just jumping until your stats are maxxed out.

Which could have been adjusted easily as many have suggested unless you think the development and fixing of the magazine/book system would have been faster to resolve which was my point.

They do matter, it's a survival game. The way they were implemented don't matter. "You are hot." Okay, great. This is displayed to me in a submenu of a menu and not on the UI (at the time that it "mattered"). And its effects are negligible and basically non-existent at all game stages. I acknowledge that the game feels less "realism" with their complete removal, but they weren't actually doing anything meaningful when they were a part of the game.

I agree the system could have been better but it was better than nothing. Keep in mind you did have penalties from being hot and cold and you might not die outright but being left with 1 HP against zombies isn't the best place to be in either. They were also meaningful enough for a lot of people to ask for them back.

The plot is wrong. I urge you to reread the post, because jars were never the issue. The problem that TFP have decided to solve with dew collectors and making only murky water be looted is that water, as a system, was entirely sidestepped by players on the first couple of days. The resource management part of the water resource was managed by "I have jar, I fill jar, I boil jar, I drink jar, I have jar, lather, rinse, repeat as necessary." For water as a resource to be meaningful, there needs to be a sufficient sink in place to remove the resource from the system. That wasn't it.

The removal of "I can have as much water as I want whenever I want however I want because I want" as a system is less realistic. Granted. But it is better as an actual game mechanic of the game you are playing which is trying to remove resources from your system in different ways.

Perhaps I misread and if so I apologize. I agree water needs scarcity early game for it to be worthwhile and jars and dew collectors both were subpar in their respective implementations.

I think the idea was that you could make jars work with tweaks. I personally think jars being consume on use is better than the current system. It would get rid of all the extra jars while still being able to get water from actual sources. You could also make water more or less polluted by zone which require more or less refinement. Dew Collectors could be a supplementary method f

You can hurl those words around if you want. I think the underlying problem was, "We need a temporary way to grant access to this dangerous place," and someone in a design meeting said, "How about we let them make drinks that let them do that," and then someone said, "Smoothies are nice," and they went with that. But if you're going to rag on smoothies but then say, "This functionally different thing with a brand new icon—BUT SHE'S GOT A NEW HAT!!!—is a more appropriate thing" just because the name is different, you're not mad about smoothies, you're mad that they're called smoothies, and have no actual issue with the problem that they're solving.

I give praise when it's deserved and call out bad implementations when it deserves it as well. Clearly a lot of people were disheartened by the 2.0 update so yes it was either lazy or incompetent unless you think it was a good update initially.

You are misunderstanding the issue. In this specific case it wasn't about the function but the implementation of that function. People were saying smoothies are unrealistic and silly. It would be like fighting dragons in the game. It doesn't make sense. It's also why the Frostclaw and Plague Spitter were changed.

You may disagree with it, but clearly enough people agreed that it needed to change so it did.

 

[RyanX]

The jars were just a symbol of a bigger issue. I personally don't care about jars. Or bandits. I'm more at odds with the loot bonanza. Water is fine, but dew collectors are a really strange way to do it. I think the jars are a more immersive way to do it, but still not ideal. You could make jars lootable but rare, but then again there is too much loot in the game.

Simple fix: Make dew collectors water purifiers instead. Make it so boiling doesn't remove all the contaminants and you have to put those jars into the purifier to make it usable for food and drink. Dew collectors being jar manufacturing workstations is just weird.

 

[Rotor]

want that water system to be irrelevant (re: 5000 jars filled with water on day one so that they don't have to interact with the system ever again).

The people that argue that jars have gone away and they cannot stockpile water as easily are upset that water is actually a resource to be played with.


But, once again, it's not about the jars. It's about the resource. You just want ample access to water. But that is what the development team is trying to prevent. Giving you ample access to a resource that's supposed to be managed and maintained.

It's about the resources, and it's about the game systems; it was never about the jars.

So many people are complaining about wanting particular systems back, so here's a quick rundown of the ones I've seen complained about (by your favourite YouTubers):

3) Jars.

Jars have been abstracted out of the game. They're there but they're not there. You effectively have a million (or a billion or whatever) jars, they just aren't carried on your person. It was never about the jars.

Bull■■■■ typical mim/maxer stuff that ruins it for the rest. There you are, I used the min/maxer in negative connotation.

 

[Noxom]

It's not a survival game, survival is only one slice of it. The game kickstarted with "Basic Survival" and has stayed true to that.

Water in the older versions was extremely trivial and didn't matter. That's not survival. Hitting a tree with a rock on a stick and building an entire cabin in the woods using perfect blocks is not survival. The game has always been a hybrid of many mechanics/genres and calling it a survival game alone is dishonest. Survival has always been a minor inconvenience at best.

The only real thing you "survive" in this game is the zombies. There's no way to make basic survival important without limiting the player extensively or nerfing/removing a lot of mechanics and conveniences. Survival barely mattered BEFORE progression was added, which made conventional survival much less relevant. You can't have tough survival when the player can grow to near god-hood in strength. Food water and shelter doesn't matter when you have an M60, hundreds of bullets, a stack of stews/mineral water and a nailgun to instantly upgrade blocks. What you guys want/expect is a totally different game or game-mode.

And no, nothing in the past versions was proper survival, that's all nostalgia. It only felt that way because there was very little else to do or think about. Zombies back then weren't as strong or varied either.

Every "solution" to the jars is subjective. The way TFP decided to do it is just as valid as anything you guys can make up, unless you can objectively prove otherwise. Trying to balance the collection of a resource from a static place that doesn't disapear/degrade (or god forbid using a bucket to bring a water block into your base) is brain numbing work that takes more effort than any other resource in the game. You have to limit inventory space, limit stack size, limit how much you can collect and how fast, limit movement speed or add weight, or make every craft recipe cost WAY more to off-set the sheer amount a player could focus on collecting. TFP removed the ability to harvest, the empty jars themselves and their stack size+production. You can drink straight from water blocks now. You can make a station or multiple stations to slowly generate water at the cost of more possible zombies. That's a more than acceptable solution until they can figure out a "better" way to do it.

 

[theFlu]

You have to limit inventory space, limit stack size, limit how much you can collect and how fast, limit movement speed or add weight, or make every craft recipe cost WAY more to off-set the sheer amount a player could focus on collecting. TFP removed the ability to harvest, the empty jars themselves and their stack size+production. You can drink straight from water blocks now. You can make a station or multiple stations to slowly generate water at the cost of more possible zombies. That's a more than acceptable solution until they can figure out a "better" way to do it.

Any of that is only necessary if they're trying to gate crafting with water. In reality, water is so plentiful that we dam rivers just to generate electricity.
Making it potable is a process. Distilling it for medical/otherwise pure crafting is another. The game could follow those ideas, instead of making us craft tarps out of vulcanized rubber to create portals that conjure water from the Aqua Dimenzia.