PC It doesnt matter if we can "craft" T6

Have you ever read patch notes for 7d before?
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Can't speak for them, but I have and can say for a fact you haven't read the latest ones despite quoting the version number. You should probably just stop while you are a head.

 
The loot nerf and the trader nerf have not happened yet. There is still lots of purple to be found. So it is out of balance at the moment but the next update should have the loot nerf and hopefully the trader nerf will come shortly thereafter.

All of this is wip so requires some patience. TFP feels confident they can make both looting and crafting feel rewarding and relevant. Of course, we will never have unanimous support on this issue.

 
The loot nerf and the trader nerf have not happened yet. There is still lots of purple to be found. So it is out of balance at the moment but the next update should have the loot nerf and hopefully the trader nerf will come shortly thereafter.
All of this is wip so requires some patience. TFP feels confident they can make both looting and crafting feel rewarding and relevant. Of course, we will never have unanimous support on this issue.
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Called it just saying...

 
Seems like if you specialize in some area, should be able to craft purples for your specialty. Heck, might even help trading.

The thing that gets me the most is needing parts to make some items.

I can see needing parts to build a machine gun for example.

I can't understand needing parts to build a steel sledge hammer, I mean, its a lump of steel on a stick?! Right?

- P

 
I can see and understand the argument where it’s looting vs crafting and I agree with both parties. But this game which was much more like Minecraft where it was more dedicated to crafting and resource harvesting.

Where as it’s moving to a fallout/Skyrim type game where you mostly loot and are outside of your base to get parts,resources, materials etc. I like and agree with the change.

At the end of the day just loot more, not that big of a deal. It’s balanced, you can’t get all items by looting nor by crafting. You got to do both. You can still craft everything besides late game items. Everything shouldn’t be craftable. Loot able exclusive items make the game more rewarding for certain players.

 
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I can see and understand the argument where it’s looting vs crafting and I agree with both parties. But this game which was much more like Minecraft where it was more dedicated to crafting.
Where as it’s moving to a fallout/Skyrim type game where you mostly loot and are outside of your base to get parts,resources, materials etc. I like and agree with the change.

At the end of the day just loot more, not that big of a deal. You can still craft everything besides late game items. Everything shouldn’t be craftable. Loot able exclusive items make the game more rewarding for certain players.
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The key is it doesnt have to be one OR the other. I love going out and looting. I do that about 50% of the game time. That doesnt mean they have to remove the crafting process of tools and non fireguns weapos. I want to still be able to gather->process->craft tools and mele weaons/bows. That isnt removing anything from the loot experience, since you can 1. still find them and 2. theres tons of other things to find. Nobody will stop looting bc we can craft tools again.

 
The key is it doesnt have to be one OR the other. I love going out and looting. I do that about 50% of the game time. That doesnt mean they have to remove the crafting process of tools and non fireguns weapos. I want to still be able to gather->process->craft tools and mele weaons/bows. That isnt removing anything from the loot experience, since you can 1. still find them and 2. theres tons of other things to find. Nobody will stop looting bc we can craft tools again.
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I don’t think looting is overpowered I think crafting was over powered and caused many exploits in the game which I will not get into here, thats a whole other conversation. People just not used to the balancing as of yet. It’s really not that hard to find parts.

You shouldn’t be able to perk in to your skill and make purple items day 5, that’s not fun. I believe madmole said he wants the game to have more progression. I’m not saying you don’t go out and loot but a lot of players just sat in their bases and crafted items he wanted to be for late game and the game had no progression, nothing to work towards.

Just as I didn’t like zombies digging down at first now I welcome it and understand it, it makes the game more interesting how you have to mine and can’t cheese underground bases. I feel like you’ll eventually welcome this change as well.

 
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As a player who loves crafting, Im not worried about latest debate between beeing able to "craft" T6 or not. Why? Because that's not crafting. They have removed the crafting of weapons and tools with a18.
Back at a16 and before, did any of you really say Im a fireweapon crafter? No, you crafted tools, you crafted mele weapons and bows. But you found weapon parts and just put them togeather. Now they have done the same with every frakin thing. We dont craft tools or any kind of weapon, we loot them, but unassembled, and then press a button to assemble them. That's not crafting.

Crafting is gathering the materials, processing them, maybe needing a looted tool before beeing able to process some tier materials. And then craft them with those materials.

Why would we fight over beeing able to assemble tier 6 or not. We are just looting every tier, some of them just need extra perk points wasted and an extra button press to assemble them.

BTW Im fine with firegun weapon parts, it's the non fire weapons and tools what sucks. Getting fireguns should be much rarer anyway

EDIT: example. Imagine in a19 blocks arent done with gathered materials anymore. We can just loot wood parts and stone parts and such to "craft" blocks. At the same time, we cant loot reinforced concrete blocks, we can only loot reinforced concrete blocks already finished, bc "the last tier shouldnt be crafted"

And instead of every crafter complaining about not beeing able to really craft blocks anymore, we just complain that we cant assemble reinforced concrete blocks with reinforced concrete block parts.

This is how I see all you fighting for beeing able to "craft" T6 tools
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I wonder if cooking is going to go the same way.

In future build you will find gel capsules. You then hit R to bring up the menu and you can then choose to turn your gel caps into something else such as a bottle of water, a can of soup, a meat stew, etc

:D

 
I don’t think looting is overpowered I think crafting was over powered and caused many exploits in the game which I will not get into here, thats a whole other conversation. People just not used to the balancing as of yet. It’s really not that hard to find parts.
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It's funny how people always consider something to be balanced just because it suits their own way of playing. For example, I thought A16 was perfectly balanced but others thought the LBD system was completely out of balance because they couldn't become a master miner by looting and killing zombies.

I started a new game this weekend. I went straight into Lucky Looter. With only level 3 in Lucky Looter and looting I made more progress in my game than I could ever have made if I had invested the points in perks for crafting.

By the way, madmole wants to nerf looting and the trader. Apparently he thinks that looting is overpowered.

You shouldn’t be able to perk in to your skill and make purple items day 5, that’s not fun. I believe madmole said he wants the game to have more progression. I’m not saying you don’t go out and loot but a lot of players just sat in their bases and crafted items he wanted to be for late game and the game had no progression, nothing to work towards.
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As split up as the crafting is at the moment you can't even craft all items in maximum quality by day 100. Only in the branches you specialize in can you craft something that has more than Q1. You have to find the rest.

Just as I didn’t like zombies digging down at first now I welcome it and understand it, it makes the game more interesting how you have to mine and can’t cheese underground bases. I feel like you’ll eventually welcome this change as well.
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Digging zombies are annoying but certainly not interesting.

That's how it worked for me in A17: A zombie or a group of zombies hears me down there. They start digging instead of taking the entrance. I hear them, go up and find them in their hole. Then I kill them and have to fill the hole to avoid falling in accidentally.

What is interesting about it ?

I also had an underground base in A17, by the way.

I surrounded the entrance with a trench filled with spikes. The only way to get into the base was via a drawbridge.

That was no challenge. Only required some digging and some building.

 
I don't mind not being able to craft Q6. I just roleplay it as if it's legendary stuff I can't make with my own hands. Gives a reason to keep going out there.

Similarly I don't mind needing to find sledgehammer parts or baseball parts to craft them. It kinda makes sense that you need to find a functional item before you can 'replicate it'.

My concerns are mostly two-fold. First of all, the almighty Lucky looter and Better Barter. Those '1 to rule them all' perks make absolutely no sense given the direction of specialization. It doesn't really matter if loot and traders get nerfed. If anything, it will only make those two skills even more OP to counterbalance the nerfs. The combined effect of the two makes them even worse than on their own, since better loot = more money per sold item and more money with better barter = even more loot that you can buy.

Secondly, gun parts. It just feels lackluster and soulless. Call me a nostalgic old timer, but finding actual gunparts (barrels, grips...) and slowly pimping my gun towards greatness felt so much better than 'let's scrap all that junk until a have 15 parts to magically create that Q5 gun'. It's fine for tools and weapons, but not for guns. Crafting would actually make a lot of sense again, say you can craft Q4 and on your current pistol, the grip is falling behind? Craft a Q4 grip and upgrade your current baby, instead of just trashing everything and rolling a fully new gun each time. Crafting would let you enhance existing stuff bit by bit, just like IRL.

 
First off, better barter and lucky looter I feel should fall into the special book perk category where any spec can get them, (also promoting looting).

Second, rather than rng on the stats of crafted items, anyone thought of adding an rng to the quality level of a crafted item? Say, you can craft quality 1-6 items, but only at a certain % chance, modified by a perk or stat. So, you may have to craft 10 or 15 picks to get a good one?

 
My concerns are mostly two-fold. First of all, the almighty Lucky looter and Better Barter. Those '1 to rule them all' perks make absolutely no sense given the direction of specialization.
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Knowing at least two on the dev team set up their base next to the trader, and also knowing they make the game THEY want to play (which is fair enough btw), it makes perfect sense to me.

 
That isnt removing anything from the loot experience, since you can 1. still find them and 2. theres tons of other things to find. Nobody will stop looting bc we can craft tools again.
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This was definitely not true in previous alpha multiplayer games at least. In A15-A17 one of our group always jumped on crafting and after a short period where we actually looted relevant stuff he supplied almost all of our equipment, especially because looting was still a gamble but crafting is a sure thing if you have the mats. Have any armor slot less than 4 (or 400), next thing you have all armor at lvl 4(00). And a few days later it was quality 6(00). Making any equipment loot irrelevant.

So as long as both crafting and looting supply the same stuff they step on each others toes, including the case they are actually balanced. At least in A18 everyone can be crafter for his own weapons. At the moment looting steps heavily on the toes of crafting weapons and armor. Nerf is incoming. I thought the loot nerf was already done, now Roland said it isn't in yet(?). We'll see.

The only easy reliable way for them not to step on each others toes is if they are the best method for different stuff. I don't see looting able to get building materials as easy as mining/crafting, but even if Brian is right, then all it needs is a nerf of those cement and cobblestone stacks found in POIs.

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Lucky Looter needs a nerf though. With a cursory look at gamestage values it seems one level in LL gets you about 1 week advancement (i.e. you loot as if you were a week further in game). That wouldn't be a problem, but 4 levels of LL plus glasses are easy to get and should get you about 5 weeks advancement (maybe less if it isn't linear). Now that is OP with the current loot tables.

 
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The only way to keep looting OR crafting relevant for the entirety of a playthrough is to have some system in which your items degrade to the point that you need new ones.

Give crafting a chance to create a Quality 6 item - not a guarantee, even on the highest crafting tier

Have items degrade as they are repaired. Possibly a 25-50% chance up front, and maybe a book or skill that can reduce the chance to degrade to prior quality level.

If we are sticking to tool parts being required, as well as metal and raw ingredients, the loot of parts needs to skyrocket, and fully put together pieces dropped much lower as well.

Oh, and repair kits are a joke now. Need a bit more complexity or something here.

 
Lucky Looter needs a nerf though. With a cursory look at gamestage values it seems one level in LL gets you about 1 week advancement (i.e. you loot as if you were a week further in game). That wouldn't be a problem, but 4 levels of LL plus glasses are easy to get and should get you about 5 weeks advancement (maybe less if it isn't linear). Now that is OP with the current loot tables.
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Lucky Looter is a perk, and therefor an option. How optionial it actually is if someone wants to powerplay is another story though.

 
Well if it's the only way to get purple tier items then Lucky Looter becomes required for top gear.

Well ish. I guess there is a small chance to find purple without it but who wouldn't want to increase the odds of getting the best gear?

 
BS

Builders have to get used to looting and leaving the base.
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BS I go out looting anyway even if I am crafting this build didn't Balance ♥♥♥♥ in terms of crafting, It killed crafting. Also who ♥♥♥♥ing cares if I spent time building and crafting, in the current system you aren't going to be able to craft everything anyway so it's just BS now.

 
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