Is stealth truly pointless now?

[Dark Sun]

It's hard to quantify our experiences since we don't see the game's variables or code.

What I would say is I believe being distant from things you're interacting with seems to help. That is, I think your manipulating and destroying things does affect your stealth meter (as you can visually see) but that I think zombies perceive you (and that stealth meter) based on your location. Being farther from a zombie helps.

Chopping a stump is an interesting choice and that would be outside where things are really easy. That is, I can kill the zombie from a long ways away and then chop the stump.

Harder would be taking down a locked door in a POI. You don't know if there's a zombie 1 block away on the other side, or not. But if I can be three meters back from the door will the zombie be given the chance to perceive the door next to the being quietly destroyed or will they be given the chance to perceive me now 4 meters away, possibly muffled by the door/wall between us?



I can't reconcile this with my own experiences. Taking it bit by bit...

Outside is really easy for stealth kills because you can have really long ranges. But you don't specify the weapon of choice here, so maybe you're talking about using a knife? If so, that squares with what I've seen. A knife is really hard to use for stealth kills, mostly because it is hard to avoid the zombie turning around to face you. (I need to use more rocks and see how that goes.)

Killing single sleepers in a group doesn't feel that hard to me, but it may be a matter of expectations and differences in level, perks, and gear. If I'm low level, without perks, and in the starter gear, then I could seeing killing one, waking the other. Or in a Tier 5 with special volumes and scripts, there are some pretty unique situations. But between those ends, I think stealth rocks.

I'm still just getting into the Tier 5 POIs for 2.6 and I can empathize, but I also think you're exaggerating. I did the 2.6 Crack-A-Book and the entire middle of that POI (other than the basement and roof) were a lovely stealth experience. Even with those two floors being wild, stealth wasn't useless, but it certainly involved some rough spots, some resorting to using the AK, and disengagement to regain stealth. A solid diet of those nasty encounters would certainly get disappointing. (I captured that 2.6 Crack-A-Book on video, though haven't shared it. I should figure out a way to do that.)

All of the Tier 4s I played (and lower) were great for stealth.

Stealth knife kills are definitely a lot harder than they used to be, to the point I hardly even bother. If I do, my solution is the "snake strike". Sneak sprint and lunge forward, knife already swinging, and aim for the head. Sometimes they fail to wake up, other times they are disturbed but I still get the sneak damage, other times, well, it is what it is.

I mostly use the bow/crossbow for sneak kills, although a silenced pistol is good. Note that reloading these weapons does generate noise. I've had a zombie wake up to me notching an arrow before on many occasions.

The entirety of that POI used to be stealthable, but good to know that it's possible in at least some areas. My mind wanders to the most dangerous spots in places like Hybrid Mining, the 7 Days Suites, The Last Sunset Nursing Home, both of the prisons, among many others. Perhaps there is some exaggeration, but it's no secret that T5 POI's are nowadays notoriously difficult to stealth, and in many situations is downright fruitless, especially in the final boss/loot room areas. It's a shame, but it is what it is. I still enjoy stealth, I just no longer rely on it. When it works, it works, and if not, I have my gun at my ready.

Post automatically merged: Today at 11:09 AM

It does.
And I just tested it to see if it shows on the meter. Hitting a wall raises the stealth meter more than hitting a zombie and different materials have different noise levels. Wood is quieter than metal.

I swear that opening a door at a further distance is less likely to wake up the zombies on the room on the other side.

Side note: Always break open closet doors. Opening them generates noticeably more noise.

 

[Double G]

I swear that opening a door at a further distance is less likely to wake up the zombies on the room on the other side.

Side note: Always break open closet doors. Opening them generates noticeably more noise.

You can also break a window or chop the door down of a room that has sleeping zombies in it and nothing happens. But if you step on a couple of pieces of cloth, that's when they wake up.

 

[seven]

Yes, the stealth meter is pretty responsive. If I fire the bow my stealth meter will go up. Harder to tell is if the arrow hitting the wall affects my stealth meter, to be perceived by the zombie at my distance from the zombie, or if the arrow hitting the wall is its own noise event that can be noticed by the zombie at the distance from the wall to the zombie. I don't currently think the arrow hitting the wall is its own noise event. I base my opinion on not noticing a lot of zombies waking up to misses, but admittedly there aren't a lot of misses other than clipping an object between them and me.

It apparently depends on the wall material. If the arrow hits some walls there is a sound event, but other materials there is none. I haven't looked at it more than that though since it's minor, just noticed that not all missed hits will make a sound.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

Chopping a stump is an interesting choice and that would be outside where things are really easy.

I didn't mean in regard to stealth. I meant it as an observation about how sound seems
louder if I am right at the stump, but I tend to back up now because the bees, spawn on
the stump not offset behind it. In doing that I noticed the sound volume difference.

 

[bdubyah]

One issue that still seems present with sounds is: for a lot of things other than distraction items like rocks, the sound originates from the player rather than where the impact takes place. Arrows don't really seem to attract zombies if you hit around them, though the noise may wake sleepers. But if you are a good distance from a zombie, throw a molotov near it, but not close enough to set it on fire. Rather than investigating the molotov explosion, they come to you instead. They aren't instantly aware of you, but will walk straight at you. This seems like a bug to me.

 

[Javabean867]

What I've always heard/read is they do it that way for performance reasons. If they had all the zombies spawned in at once, apparently it would create significant performance issues (stuttering, dropped frames, etc.).

It definitely would tank performance. they have to account for all systems the game will be playable on. It's 1 of the reasons why they make the windows in cities opaque when you aren't next to them.

"Auto trigger" usually refers to a specific zombie volume type. Referred to as 'Attack' in code iirc.
You do need a "spawn trigger" to have the zeds appear (and to control the amount of zeds in the world).

"Auto trigger" is something that fires After a spawn trigger, waking some/all the zeds up from their slumber when activated (100% chance with a headlight on, greatly heightened stealth detection if no headlight (last I checked... several alphas ago)). Activation can be many things, the annoying version is purely a line you cross when approaching.

Sorry I'm in a bad mood so you get 'a pedantic much????' lol

But yeah, the game spawns the zambs in when you are going to probably interact with them, and that is usually defined by a line you cross. I would rather the line be further out, and possibly when the game loads the geometry for the room, so you can carefully snipe the zombies before you enter the room.

But this convo doesn't really effect me too much. I don't like clearing POIs without waking zambs. I like getting a few stealth kills when i do an agility build per room. I find it too boring to just clear a room without any of them waking up.

 

[zztong]

My mind wanders to the most dangerous spots in places like Hybrid Mining, the 7 Days Suites, The Last Sunset Nursing Home, both of the prisons, among many others.

I've done Hybrid Mining recently, probably during 2.5. It was quite stealthable, again depending on your expectations. It will certainly activate a bunch of zombies, but you can be outdoors, break contact, and then be dropping them at very long distance. That's one that I want to revisit with a silenced sniper rifle, but was fun with a compound bow.

I'll have to seek out 7 Days Suites and the Nursing Home.

I do recall Navezane Corrections being nasty in spots, but I don't recall the Navezgane County Jail being all that bad. Of course I have to remember these POIs don't stay the same; they update them from time to time.

I'm curious, are you following the path in these places? (I don't.)

I didn't mean in regard to stealth. I meant it as an observation about how sound seems
louder if I am right at the stump, but I tend to back up now because the bees, spawn on
the stump not offset behind it. In doing that I noticed the sound volume difference.

Oh, I see. Yes, hearing yourself at a distance will not as loud out of your speakers. Oddly enough, game's rarely do realistic sound at a distance. Real life would be an inverse square law, but games tend to make sound fall of linearly so that you hear things out in the world. In game, this explains why I might turn to face an approaching zombie and they're farther away than I expected.

 

[theFlu]

Sorry I'm in a bad mood so you get 'a pedantic much????' lol

Heh, no worries for bad mood; and I'm not really picking a fight or anything... but I don't think it's pointlessly pedantic. You didn't quote anything, so it's unclear what you were responding to; but most complaints above your post were about the way zombies wake up. Not about the way they are spawned in.. and you offered the latter as an explanation for the former, while they're two different systems even in the current game.

But yeah, not picking a fight, is all good
I don't like the stealth game at the "everyone sleeps" -end either ..