Hybrid learning system (learn by reading AND doing)

If I could progress by spending my time doing what I want to do (instead of being forced to loot) the speed of the game would be fine.  My issue with the magazines is, and always will be, that it forces me to go looting when I'd rather be mining/building.


Books should be optional, one of the pathways, completely generated/spawned at random. Gathering books doesn`t make sense once a player has already invested points into the skill-tree. Purchasable Blueprints in Trader compounds might be (always) available for those who already perked up into a specific weapon or a tool - 1 click, one blueprint, one item in the inventory, everyone is happy. I do not see the need for 100 books, instead, half of the amount that drops half of the time would be perfectly fine. Books drop too often and there are too many of them in the inventory because of that.

A Trader should work in that sense, so if a player has not managed to find something by himself, then this could be found in Trader compound.

For me the speed of the game is about right. Why would I want to be finished by day 21? I would have seen only 3 horde nights!

But if you like it faster, why don't you just set 200% XP and 200% loot? Practically double speed, even with magazines as you loot them in pairs.


So yeah, I perked up and I have to wait for a decent amount of books to drop. I am playing with 100% progression speed, but lobby XP sharing is enabled so I progress faster. The speed is fine, but I feel like I am starting with Pipe Sniper Rifle (which takes too long to progress with to a better weapon), and end up with a final tier weapon because of the implementation of books that drag me down idk what for. 

The implementation of Books should not drag me down and slow down the overall progression while I assign my points, but rather give additional options to a player. 

If books were completely at random then playthroughs would be unique, and yeah, the progression would slow down naturally also. 

 
Books should be optional, one of the pathways, completely generated/spawned at random. Gathering books doesn`t make sense once a player has already invested points into the skill-tree. Purchasable Blueprints in Trader compounds might be (always) available for those who already perked up into a specific weapon or a tool - 1 click, one blueprint, one item in the inventory, everyone is happy. I do not see the need for 100 books, instead, half of the amount that drops half of the time would be perfectly fine. Books drop too often and there are too many of them in the inventory because of that.

A Trader should work in that sense, so if a player has not managed to find something by himself, then this could be found in Trader compound.

So yeah, I perked up and I have to wait for a decent amount of books to drop. I am playing with 100% progression speed, but lobby XP sharing is enabled so I progress faster. The speed is fine, but I feel like I am starting with Pipe Sniper Rifle (which takes too long to progress with to a better weapon), and end up with a final tier weapon because of the implementation of books that drag me down idk what for. 

The implementation of Books should not drag me down and slow down the overall progression while I assign my points, but rather give additional options to a player. 

If books were completely at random then playthroughs would be unique, and yeah, the progression would slow down naturally also. 
The book system actually makes sense in terms of crafting, as they match up to a type of weapon/ tool, and the quality of said weapon/ tool, and similar regarding consumables like food and meds. 
 

I get that some players want to simply level it up by doing it, but I really think that if an alternative way is made, it should be tied to either challenges or even a new type of mission from traders, geared towards players that would rather spend their time farming/ mining/ building. 

Supply missions, where you can bring the trader x amount of a requested material, of which you have a reward option of skill books kind of geared towards that activity.

It solves the issue, and has the added benefit of giving dukes as well.

As far as building is concerned, maybe get a “special mission” you can accept once or twice a week that calls a horde to your base. Upon mission completion, the rewards are geared more toward builders, such as books relevant to builders, concrete and steel blocks, and various packs of traps, electronics, and even crafting bench mods.

 
So yeah, I perked up and I have to wait for a decent amount of books to drop. I am playing with 100% progression speed, but lobby XP sharing is enabled so I progress faster. The speed is fine, but I feel like I am starting with Pipe Sniper Rifle (which takes too long to progress with to a better weapon), and end up with a final tier weapon because of the implementation of books that drag me down idk what for. 


That is the problem. You are ONLY speeding up the leveling with XP sharing, but not the loot and crafting progress with loot frequency. Just set loot frequency higher and your time in pipe age will be shorter and your magazine progress faster.

If books were completely at random then playthroughs would be unique, and yeah, the progression would slow down naturally also. 


Yes, we had that before the magazine system and it worked adequately, the advantage was a higher replayability. But crafting progress was VERY random, and especially in multiplayer x times faster than in single player. One player did find the pump shotgun recipe on day 7,  the other never, and a group of players almost certainly before day 12. I assume TFP wanted to fix this. They could have taken different solutions but their solution was to reign in the randomness by splitting the crafting progress into much smaller chunks of finding 100 pieces instead of 3.

Before magazines speeding up crafting progress was ineffective because you could still not find that pump shotgun recipe even if you increased the drop chance for recipes, now with magazines it is dead simple. Increase loot frequency by a factor of 2 and you WILL increase the speed of progression by 2. Because of the law of large numbers

 
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Books should be optional, one of the pathways, completely generated/spawned at random. Gathering books doesn`t make sense once a player has already invested points into the skill-tree. Purchasable Blueprints in Trader compounds might be (always) available for those who already perked up into a specific weapon or a tool - 1 click, one blueprint, one item in the inventory, everyone is happy. I do not see the need for 100 books, instead, half of the amount that drops half of the time would be perfectly fine. Books drop too often and there are too many of them in the inventory because of that.

A Trader should work in that sense, so if a player has not managed to find something by himself, then this could be found in Trader compound.

So yeah, I perked up and I have to wait for a decent amount of books to drop. I am playing with 100% progression speed, but lobby XP sharing is enabled so I progress faster. The speed is fine, but I feel like I am starting with Pipe Sniper Rifle (which takes too long to progress with to a better weapon), and end up with a final tier weapon because of the implementation of books that drag me down idk what for. 

The implementation of Books should not drag me down and slow down the overall progression while I assign my points, but rather give additional options to a player. 

If books were completely at random then playthroughs would be unique, and yeah, the progression would slow down naturally also. 
The other thing I got to thinking about when you said you aren’t finding enough skill books:

Where are you looking? 
 

Certain types of books spawn in certain types of locations much more frequently, and also when you go to other regions. 
 

if you are staying within a small general area, running low (t1-4) missions in only the forest biome, then yes, you will probably have rather slow progression on the rifle skill books.

The playthrough I am on right now, which is pretty much all default settings, by day 14 I had maxed out armor, blades, food, and over halfway on meds, electrical, traps, harvest tools, repair tools, salvage tools, and pistols. Not to mention several of the special perk book sets complete.

Branch out and explore, spend dukes at the trader for reading material. Make sure to thoroughly check POIs. You’ll get them pretty quick. Especially at burned land, and snow biomes if you are looking for rifle magazines!

 
The book system actually makes sense in terms of crafting, as they match up to a type of weapon/ tool, and the quality of said weapon/ tool, and similar regarding consumables like food and meds. 


That is the problem. You are ONLY speeding up the leveling with XP sharing, but not the loot and crafting progress with loot frequency. Just set loot frequency higher and your time in pipe age will be shorter and your magazine progress faster.


I do not want to make a bad impression like I am against a book system, absolutely I am for it, but some tweaking needs to be done as always.

I love the fact that with a progression system based on books, I have access to meds, food, and framing without spending a hecatomb of points to make my character meta-min-maxer on day 1 or 7.

This system (additional book system) always works perfectly fine only if the XP is set to 100%, loot abundance is set to 100%, and with no XP party sharing - I think it is a topic for another discussion.

If the values are disrupted then obviously books as a drop do not match up with the overall XP/gamestage player progression and the whole concept, as a result, goes to the murky lime pit. The recent concept is extremely linear and predictable to the core with proper values. I feel no excitement, and no cost/value except for, I grind thus I  always get a dead simplicity.

Yes, we had that before the magazine system and it worked adequately, the advantage was a higher replayability. But crafting progress was VERY random, and especially in multiplayer x times faster than in single player. One player did find the pump shotgun recipe on day 7,  the other never, and a group of players almost certainly before day 12. I assume TFP wanted to fix this. They could have taken different solutions but their solution was to reign in the randomness by splitting the crafting progress into much smaller chunks of finding 100 pieces instead of 3.

Before magazines speeding up crafting progress was ineffective because you could still not find that pump shotgun recipe even if you increased the drop chance for recipes, now with magazines it is dead simple. Increase loot frequency by a factor of 2 and you WILL increase the speed of progression by 2. Because of the law of large numbers.


So perhaps the recipe should always be available in Trader for a dime (if a player has a hard time finding one) - since players swim in dukes according to some. Like a list and once an eligible player gets it, a selected item grays out. Recipe might always be available for the player who excels in such build. Invisible for others (unqualified/non-perked) or available for 5-10x amount of a dime. Then a group of people will not go ahead of a single player (but it comes with a cost for a single player). The collection of all books could enable players to craft the final LvL 6 item, enlarge mod slots, create dedicated mods, etc... to extend hypothetical progression. Not by just some empty numbers but physically/materially viable.

So for example, for Lever Action Rifle I need a certain amount of points in my perk-tree and a schematic/books optionally. But a schematic (Lever Action LvL 1 to 5) might be always available in the Traders compound for a dime. Books might be optional or make available certain upgrades or only LvL 6 items. Idk if it is clear.

I mean, a group of people will always be more successful no matter the algorithm, economy, and reward system. Once one player hits LvL 6 weapon then he may craft it for others. The biggest problem with the progression stood in certain items, they simply had been too hard to obtain for a single player or unavailable in the Trader compound 24/7 or only on a given week time. 

I've found that I spend a disproportionate amount of time harvesting resources and building structures by comparison to looting POIs which has put me at a disadvantage come horde night as mining does nothing but generate resources and exp. I generally have no issues assuming more of a "base mom" roll when playing on a server, but it does make the game harder if that is your primary style of play as the magazine system forces you to loot in order to improve your crafting skills.


So basically, pardon my French, without looting books dedicated to your exclusive build, You are effectively invited back into the trench hole. Right now, your friends cannot find a book for you cuz of current algorithms either!!! I feel like players get a huge amount of XP just from excavating and building, or upgrading to concrete. On top of that, if I find myself with a group of people, I receive XP party sharing points while they do a Traders mission (killing zombies). The final icing on the cake (XP stacking) - XP mod for the helmet, Nerd Heavy armor hat, XP mixture, Blackstrap coffee, here we go lads and gents... shooting through the stars with XP grind. Not everyone likes to just grind through POIs and Trader missions, without available books or schematics for dukes, they are doomed. 

Branch out and explore, spend dukes at the trader for reading material. Make sure to thoroughly check POIs. You’ll get them pretty quick. Especially at burned land, and snow biomes if you are looking for rifle magazines!


I get them sooner or later. That's not a big problem. The issue is with dead simplicity and those who do not go through the looting-shooting grind will have a hard time to progress. 

 
So perhaps the recipe should always be available in Trader for a dime (if a player has a hard time finding one) - since players swim in dukes according to some. Like a list and once an eligible player gets it, a selected item grays out. Recipe might always be available for the player who excels in such build. Invisible for others (unqualified/non-perked) or available for 5-10x amount of a dime. Then a group of people will not go ahead of a single player (but it comes with a cost for a single player). The collection of all books could enable players to craft the final LvL 6 item, enlarge mod slots, create dedicated mods, etc... to extend hypothetical progression. Not by just some empty numbers but physically/materially viable.

So for example, for Lever Action Rifle I need a certain amount of points in my perk-tree and a schematic/books optionally. But a schematic (Lever Action LvL 1 to 5) might be always available in the Traders compound for a dime. Books might be optional or make available certain upgrades or only LvL 6 items. Idk if it is clear.


May not be clear. If the schematic for Lever Action lvl 1 to 5 is always available for a dime at the trader it is no gate to crafting lever actions at all. So why have it in the game at all? It could be removed altogether and you simply would have the ability to craft lever action 1 to 5 from day one.

 
May not be clear. If the schematic for Lever Action lvl 1 to 5 is always available for a dime at the trader it is no gate to crafting lever actions at all. So why have it in the game at all? It could be removed altogether and you simply would have the ability to craft lever action 1 to 5 from day one.


Damn, you are right.

Anyways in many other games, the amount of mods attached increases the level of a rifle. So perhaps the player would only be able to craft LvL 1 with schematics, without additional read books. The rest need to be found or purchased at the Trader...

I would rather have 5-6 weapons in the same category without levels. The quality would be determined by the total amount of mods attached...

 
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