PC How long would you survive a zombie apocalypse?

[Rotor]

Yep, looked it up.

 

[Maharin]

I agree with most of what you said, though saying "long incubation" period and then saying "go bad in a hurry" does not gel. Essentially the more we stay in traditional zombie lore the less likely the spread is. Most zombie movies have a very short incubation interval (you get bitten, you turn in seconds to overnight. Definitely most zombie movies (except maybe the atypical "The girl with all the talents") have no virus transmission over air, unless you get bitten you don't turn. Transmission over air is fundamentally different and easier for transmission than getting bitten by a raving lunatic.

Whatever you say clinic personel is not THAT dumb that they won't notice people going mad, biting other people and those other people getting mad after some time. Practically one or two of such events might be misinterpreted but not 20 and not the following generations of infected, at which time the zombie population would be still very very far from masses of zombies running through the streets. And then the news would immediately travel around the world, mass panic included, but everyone would know and the zombies and infected combined would still be a few 100 (with any incubation period that would allow world wide distribution at the same time).

And that is my central point: In most conditions that conform to zombie lore as seen in movies everyone in the world will know everything important about zombies before the zombies reach a significant percentage of the population. Either because they turn so fast that they stay localized to few cities or because their incubation time is too long and they need weeks and months to get to apocalyptic numbers. As you say a long incubation makes it possible for the disease to distribute and maybe even get confused with rabies at the first few incidents, but it also means that increasing zombie population takes longer and gives humanity weeks or even months to notice and react and most importantly slow down the infection rate before it reaches the steep part of the hyperbolic curve.

Lunatic people that bite other people are very conspicuous and not even 1 in 100 clinic personel will confuse zombieness with rabies when the zombie is eating the brains of his victim on the hospital floor.

You talk about mutation, but look at Covid. It mutates to get around the auto-imun system, but it still makes you cough, it doesn't suddenly transfer itself to the liver or makes your stomach hurt. Covid has a mass of symptoms but they essentially stayed the same over all mutations. The incubation period as well did not change fundamentally.

You could invent a new zombie virus that makes new zombies not act differently or just compel them to recite Shakespeare, but how would it transmit itself then from those normal acting people that don't bite?

By long incubation time I mean that it doesn't show symptoms right away.  The significance might mean that it spreads more easily since the virus would be more concentrated.  It might also be able to be spread through other means that don't require obvious zombie symptoms some significant time before someone becomes a zombie.

As for clinical personnel not being that "dumb" I'll leave my area of the country as "Exhibit A".  There are STILL medical people (nurses, doctors, other staff members)  in this area that think COVID-19 deaths are faked or completely reported wrong and that the whole thing is a government conspiracy.  I kid you not.  People don't have to be dumb to ignore the signs and believe they are stronger than the disease that's killing everyone else.  Being jaded or brainwashed by "influencers" is all that it takes.  EDIT: Oh, and "anti-vax" is a badge honor around here, too.

What I've been saying in this thread was always meant to be that the zombie part of the disease's life cycle takes a while to develop.  Consider 7DTD and getting infected... you don't turn into a zombie right away.  That's the assumed behavior I've been posting about all along.  Sorry for the confusion.  I agree that standard zombie lore does not logically make an apocalypse happen for the reasons you cite and others.

If you want a truly interesting take on zombies check out the Slow Burn series by Bobby Adair.  They're a fun read and you can get the first 9 books on Audible for a single credit.  The Kindle box set on Amazon is also available for cheap (99 cents, last I looked).

 

[Pernicious]

As for clinical personnel not being that "dumb" I'll leave my area of the country as "Exhibit A".  There are STILL medical people (nurses, doctors, other staff members)  in this area that think COVID-19 deaths are faked or completely reported wrong and that the whole thing is a government conspiracy. 

On the flip side, in places like China, even if you have incontrovertible proof that covid exists, if it's inconvenient for the government, you were clearly wrong:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/10/05/world/asia/li-wenliang-letter.html

"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."

George Orwell, 1984

 

[meganoth]

If you want a truly interesting take on zombies check out the Slow Burn series by Bobby Adair. 

In what way is it an interesting take?

 

[Maharin]

In what way is it an interesting take?

There are different results from the infection.  Some people die, some people go full zombie, some are considered "slow burns" that survived the infection but didn't turn into zombies.  The slow burns have different flavors, too, so to speak.  Plus as the virus mutated it created different regional effects on the population.  Some zombies lacked aggression, some were really smart and lead mobs of the dumb ones.  There is a whole lot of nuance to this zombie apocalypse.  That makes it interesting to me.

 

[Kyonshi]

I live Montréal, which is at the same time the biggest city in Québec province (3M people including the surrounding towns) and an island. Right off the bat, my chances are dramatically slim since cities are the worst place to be in during a zombie apocalypse and also connecting bridges would probably be blown up.

I don't have firearms. The best I have is a crowbar, that I'd pick up right away, a nail hammer and some large kitchen knives. My appartment is at street level, another big disadvantage. I'd have to find somewhere that's higher above.

I have grocerie and hardware stores nearby but nothing guaranties they wouldn't already be either looted up or swarmed by the time I'd be safe to go there.

The best bet there is in Canada is winter, but that's only if there's still power available, which is also unlikely. We have a pretty strong and reliable network of hydro-electricity but it would be a matter of time until it's compromised.

I don't give myself beyond 2 weeks and I'm generous.

 

[Laz Man]

Regarding the start of the Z apocalypse, the story they used in the Will Smith "I am legend" movie was an interesting one.

If I remember correctly, some type of vaccine or cure was given out to a large population which eventually evolved into the Z virus thus explaining how a large population was able to turn in a relatively short amount of time.

 

[ElDudorino]

The best bet there is in Canada is winter, but that's only if there's still power available, which is also unlikely. We have a pretty strong and reliable network of hydro-electricity

"Reliable" is kind of relative here... most people in the greater Montréal area have power more often than not, but still lose it when there's snow, or sunshine, or rain, or a slight breeze.  So, like, several times per week.

 

[Kyonshi]

Regarding the start of the Z apocalypse, the story they used in the Will Smith "I am legend" movie was an interesting one.

If I remember correctly, some type of vaccine or cure was given out to a large population which eventually evolved into the Z virus thus explaining how a large population was able to turn in a relatively short amount of time.

It was the K virus, which was a re-engineering of the measles virus, by Dr. Krippin, that mutated into the very virulent form showed in the movie. Its catastrophic result was not only due to the quickness of the "transformation" but also to the fact that the vaccine was administered to a huge part of the global population, since it was the literal cure for cancer itself.

 

[Chambers]

Zombie stories are fun and I very much enjoy them. I will stress that up front, because to illustrate how to survive them, you have to deconstruct them.

Okay, so, the disease-zombie storyline relies on buying into a number of conceits.

1) Nobody, including the military, knows what the Ancients Romans used to do to disorganized melee opponents who charged at them. And unlike those opponents, zombies lack weapons, armor, and strategy. They are, to all intents and purposes, reduced to animal intelligence.

2) Nobody, including the military, knows what castle walls are for.

3) Nobody, including the military and medical professionals, knows how to set up containment zones.

4) Nobody, including the military and medical professionals, is able to adapt their tactics to the presence of a new (-ish) type of enemy.

5) Nobody, including the military, is willing to make tough decisions to ensure the safety of the group.

Nobody except you, of course.

So basically, the stories are really, really, reallllly disrespectful of the military.

With that understanding, how well can you or I survive a disease-based zombie apocalypse?

Do you have access to leather armor, like motocross gear? Do you live near a castle or a walled town, or can you quickly set up a walled area? Do you have access to fresh water and arable land withing your walls, or can you set that up in your climate? Can you and your mates make polearms? If you can answer yes to these questions, than you (and I and any of us) can survive indefinitely against the zombie threat.

Supernatural Zombie Exceptions: The thing about humans is they are scavengers, not predators. So we have no natural weapons that can pierce heavy cloth, much less leather, much less metal. We don't have reach and aren't particularly quick or agile or tough or strong. But like most scavengers, we are clever and adaptable. Zombies, aren't though. Zombies are basically humans with zero advantages. However, if your story grants the zombie magical powers, such as supernatural strength or supernatural speed, that's when things get far more difficult to survive. While we would all last indefinitely with the former type of zombie, against supernatural zombies, I would last until the wall gets breached, and then I would be one of the first to go. Because I am one of the people the community could survive without, so I would stand in the breach.

 

[Guest]

I was bought an excellent book by Dr Dale and his bppk the A-Z dictionary the A-Z guide to staying alive with some excellent advice like:

Weapons or what is the best dance.

What is the Women's institute attitude.

All sort of useful tips.

Do not forget that this book comes with a money back gurantee, and I quote

Full money back gurantee offered should you die in a zombie apocalypse within 30 days of purchase.

Can't be fairer than that for over 300 pages of wisdom

 

[meganoth]

There are different results from the infection.  Some people die, some people go full zombie, some are considered "slow burns" that survived the infection but didn't turn into zombies.  The slow burns have different flavors, too, so to speak.  Plus as the virus mutated it created different regional effects on the population.  Some zombies lacked aggression, some were really smart and lead mobs of the dumb ones.  There is a whole lot of nuance to this zombie apocalypse.  That makes it interesting to me.

Sounds like an interesting concept to pile surprise on surprise.

Another book someone just told me about explained the zombie virus as alien-made to first infect 1/3rd of the population in a first phase, then switch to an activated state. With this construct he explained how the zombies could get to be in masses right from the start.

 

[meganoth]

It was the K virus, which was a re-engineering of the measles virus, by Dr. Krippin, that mutated into the very virulent form showed in the movie. Its catastrophic result was not only due to the quickness of the "transformation" but also to the fact that the vaccine was administered to a huge part of the global population, since it was the literal cure for cancer itself.

All successfull zombie apocalypses work wonders as a cure to practically all other diseases, maybe with the exception of nail fungus

Oh, and I have to wonder at what time the virus mutated? It sounds like it mutated a while after being used to vaccinate a lot of the population, but then it is inexplainable why a high percentage of the virus **distributed** aka isolated over the human population all mutated the same to result in zombies.

Mutation is by definition a random change in the DNA of the virus, really really random. The required change must be enough base changes away to not occur immediately (in a host every single base change occurs multiple times a day) as the vaccination would be stopped immediately after the first cases of zombieness. But it must still lead to the same result in a sizable percentage of the population.

Just consider Covid as an example, a new mutation family like Omikron always starts from a single place and fights itself to the top by infection. It doesn't happen (to my knowledge) that the same mutation just happens everywhere in the world at the same time. 

 

[Matt115]

All successfull zombie apocalypses work wonders as a cure to practically all other diseases, maybe with the exception of nail fungus

Oh, and I have to wonder at what time the virus mutated? It sounds like it mutated a while after being used to vaccinate a lot of the population, but then it is inexplainable why a high percentage of the virus **distributed** aka isolated over the human population all mutated the same to result in zombies.

Mutation is by definition a random change in the DNA of the virus, really really random. The required change must be enough base changes away to not occur immediately (in a host every single base change occurs multiple times a day) as the vaccination would be stopped immediately after the first cases of zombieness. But it must still lead to the same result in a sizable percentage of the population.

Just consider Covid as an example, a new mutation family like Omikron always starts from a single place and fights itself to the top by infection. It doesn't happen (to my knowledge) that the same mutation just happens everywhere in the world at the same time. 

In 21 weeks later zombie just starved to dead. They were just infected people not undead so - if this would be virus , people living on islands would be pretty save after few months. Even if would be a lot of people infected into walkers... still it woudn't be big deal for surviors in countries like USA or Switerland because a lot of guns and very slow zombie. Runners could be a problem but.... during zombie apocalypse not zombies are problems not even.... humans but... Nuclear plants without control. Just random plane could hit a nuclear plant and in the best situation - at least 100 km nearby is not suitable.

And in the time it takes for the zombies to take over the city people would find out from the first failed attempts that sending in troops does not stop it. Once this information gets around the next step will be isolation, segmentation and/or establishing safe zones. But to get into detail we would need to know which type of zombie you are speaking about. Is the cause a virus or simply every death? Incubation time? Running or shambling? Iron-eating? ....

For any mass of zombies that can't breach concrete for example there are lots of buildings that can be fortified so they can't get in in any number. Put some soldiers with flame throwers and enough gasoline in such a building and let them make noise and they will be able to draw and mass kill the zombies we know from many movies. 

Well "pen" mines could slow zombie so much too so... except fungus zombie - zombie outbreak could be stop very fast but this depends on military decision what to do

 

[Maharin]

I think the Walking Dead's solution to the zombie apocalypse is one of the most effective.  Everybody is infected, the more you kill the more zombies you make.  That formula pretty much guarantees an apocalypse.

 

[Matt115]

I think the Walking Dead's solution to the zombie apocalypse is one of the most effective.  Everybody is infected, the more you kill the more zombies you make.  That formula pretty much guarantees an apocalypse.

Not so rly. In Fear of the Walking Dead there is a new info about zombie virus

Spoiler

It's human made virus and can create "running zombie" too. So if they create virus probably cure was created too ( if you create such weapon you want to be protected against it right?)

 

[meganoth]

I think the Walking Dead's solution to the zombie apocalypse is one of the most effective.  Everybody is infected, the more you kill the more zombies you make.  That formula pretty much guarantees an apocalypse.

The more you kill who? Zombies killing humans become zombies in all zombie apokalypes. and humans killing zombies can't generate zombies or they would be indestructible. So you must mean humans killing humans. That is a very "traditional" approach as it is similar to death rising from the graves but with a virus.

But knowledge of that fact would be a big deterrent to wars or murders as self-preservation kicks in. At least most murders would involve destroying the brain as all but the insane murderers are still interested in society working.

That leaves largely death by accident/sickness/age. The counter-strategy to these problems are again segmentation, production of lots of handcuffs and zombie-safe doors and rooms for patients and old people.

Accidents are not predictable so there would still be the need for everyone to always be prepared for small outbreaks and carry a weapon (melee as not everyone can be given firearms and fire arms are too dangerous to generate accidents aka friendly fire).  People with dangerous jobs would be given remote heart rate monitors and eventually (if modern electronics production survives) everyone would carry one.

 

[Maharin]

The more you kill who? Zombies killing humans become zombies in all zombie apokalypes. and humans killing zombies can't generate zombies or they would be indestructible. So you must mean humans killing humans. That is a very "traditional" approach as it is similar to death rising from the graves but with a virus.

But knowledge of that fact would be a big deterrent to wars or murders as self-preservation kicks in. At least most murders would involve destroying the brain as all but the insane murderers are still interested in society working.

That leaves largely death by accident/sickness/age. The counter-strategy to these problems are again segmentation, production of lots of handcuffs and zombie-safe doors and rooms for patients and old people.

Accidents are not predictable so there would still be the need for everyone to always be prepared for small outbreaks and carry a weapon (melee as not everyone can be given firearms and fire arms are too dangerous to generate accidents aka friendly fire).  People with dangerous jobs would be given remote heart rate monitors and eventually (if modern electronics production survives) everyone would carry one.

In TWD if anyone died for any reason that did involve them losing their brain matter they would rise again and become a zombie (sickness, killed by zombie, killed by human, committed suicide, fell off a bridge, etc.).  Doesn't matter so long as their brain remains intact.  No amount of damage to a zombie outside their heads seemed to kill them.  Cut off their arms or legs and they will still drag themselves around as best they could.

As for everything else you are saying, all I can say is that you are being very naive.  People have always been selfish, especially wealthy/powerful people.  That won't change just because the poor and/or "ill prepared" are dying.  The rich and powerful will use the opportunity to gain more wealth and more power.  And if you think I'm jaded you should probably look around you and pay more attention to what is really going on in this world.

 

[Matt115]

The more you kill who? Zombies killing humans become zombies in all zombie apokalypes. and humans killing zombies can't generate zombies or they would be indestructible. So you must mean humans killing humans. That is a very "traditional" approach as it is similar to death rising from the graves but with a virus.

But knowledge of that fact would be a big deterrent to wars or murders as self-preservation kicks in. At least most murders would involve destroying the brain as all but the insane murderers are still interested in society working.

That leaves largely death by accident/sickness/age. The counter-strategy to these problems are again segmentation, production of lots of handcuffs and zombie-safe doors and rooms for patients and old people.

Accidents are not predictable so there would still be the need for everyone to always be prepared for small outbreaks and carry a weapon (melee as not everyone can be given firearms and fire arms are too dangerous to generate accidents aka friendly fire).  People with dangerous jobs would be given remote heart rate monitors and eventually (if modern electronics production survives) everyone would carry one.

Well there is even more problems too - kid can die while woman is pregnat - so lower chance to have children because being  eat from sound pretty like nightmare.  So execpt way like dunno - creating kids in lab there is no way for mankind to survive after 100-200 years

In TWD if anyone died for any reason that did involve them losing their brain matter they would rise again and become a zombie (sickness, killed by zombie, killed by human, committed suicide, fell off a bridge, etc.).  Doesn't matter so long as their brain remains intact.  No amount of damage to a zombie outside their heads seemed to kill them.  Cut off their arms or legs and they will still drag themselves around as best they could.

As for everything else you are saying, all I can say is that you are being very naive.  People have always been selfish, especially wealthy/powerful people.  That won't change just because the poor and/or "ill prepared" are dying.  The rich and powerful will use the opportunity to gain more wealth and more power.  And if you think I'm jaded you should probably look around you and pay more attention to what is really going on in this world.

Maharin not all brain but specifc part of brain (S1- doctor tested his wife before he blow up himself + in probably S4 guy in bath shot himself in head but stiill became zombie. - Walking Dead's Fast Zombies Break An 11-Season Rule (screenrant.com)  Well this

Now reason of dead maybe matter - at least in France. 

 

[meganoth]

In TWD if anyone died for any reason that did involve them losing their brain matter they would rise again and become a zombie (sickness, killed by zombie, killed by human, committed suicide, fell off a bridge, etc.).  Doesn't matter so long as their brain remains intact.  No amount of damage to a zombie outside their heads seemed to kill them.  Cut off their arms or legs and they will still drag themselves around as best they could.

And handcuffed to a bed that zombie would still be a manageable danger. Call the terminator with the spear. Yes, this is simplifying what would be extreme measures in a harsh and dangerous world. But as long as humanity can keep the zombies at low numbers.

As for everything else you are saying, all I can say is that you are being very naive.  People have always been selfish, especially wealthy/powerful people.  That won't change just because the poor and/or "ill prepared" are dying.  The rich and powerful will use the opportunity to gain more wealth and more power.  And if you think I'm jaded you should probably look around you and pay more attention to what is really going on in this world.

Sure they will try to gain more wealth and power. Who said anything against that. But what does that have to do with the topic? Covid made a few companies and rich people massively richer. And poor countries got the short straw. But concerning Covid, essentially it worked, the whole world put up new rules, ran around with masks and slowly got vaccinated. With the wealthy doing their own thing.  

What YOU are forgetting is that when civilization brakes down the rich may have the best chances to survive, sure, but they can't fly to Acapulco for a vacation anymore, go to the best doctor to get their face lifted or buy the newest yacht. They are as interested in an intact civilization as you are.