Hek Harris
Refugee
Thanks
I guess I'll remove the plants because I've better things to eat than a strange modified maïs that made a nice pig a green and dangerous one.
PC Hoes- For gardening
- Thread starter Pichii
- Start date
I guess I'll remove the plants because I've better things to eat than a strange modified maïs that made a nice pig a green and dangerous one.
I like the new farm plot. You need a bit time to get enough rotten flesh to craft them (could be a bit easier to obtain them), but overall I think they add a bit difficulty to farming.
There is only one part about food in general I don't like at the moment: You are always better off with canned food because it doesn't give you food poisoning. I really don't know why I would get food poisoning from baked potatoes and in real life it's healthier to eat selfmade food than canned sh*t. I am by no means a good cook, but I got never food poisoning from food that I cooked. It's somewhat annoying to think about if it's worth to eat a grilled meat.
But besides this I like it how it is.
There is only one part about food in general I don't like at the moment: You are always better off with canned food because it doesn't give you food poisoning. I really don't know why I would get food poisoning from baked potatoes and in real life it's healthier to eat selfmade food than canned sh*t. I am by no means a good cook, but I got never food poisoning from food that I cooked. It's somewhat annoying to think about if it's worth to eat a grilled meat.
But besides this I like it how it is.
theFlu
Hunter
Thanks
While you clearly RP here, I'll add to the mechanics; it's not just excellent for Food, it stacks a whopping +20 Health too. Have a stack on you and stop caring about med kits.
G
Guest
Guest
I made a 5x5 garden. It's pretty and also completely useless because I have the secret shamway recipe, and there seems to be enough canned food from loot alone.
Another fine TFP balance pass.
Another fine TFP balance pass.
Kattla
Refugee
Nay. Farming is a waste of resources, if you can get the secret shamway recipe.
Logic is broken, considering the what is used to make can of sham. Not a high food value, but free of food poisoning.
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AtomicUs5000
Refugee
I'm not fully understanding what you mean. Just because it is possible to find something in game like this, doesn't nullify everything. If and when you get that will vary greatly from game to game.
Hollowprime
Refugee
I'm personally ok with farming plots as a design but not as an execution. I've posted this on another thread:
We need realism back in the game. If you've played zomboid you'd know it's not hard to find seeds and make a little bit of soil. The hard part is watering the plants (this can be automated on 7d2d) and taking care of the plants that grow very slowly.
Hoe is not necessary but farm plots should work as a super fertilizer like in A16 . Feeding the crops with water and taking care of them should be a bigger focus.
Some ideas I've gathered from other games like zomboid, don't starve, the long dark and the forest:
-Finding seeds should be fairly common
-You randomly gather seeds from harvesting plants.
-Food rot should act as a fertilizer (not as an ingredient)
-Seeds are edible
-Watering the plants is mandatory (but can be automated)
-Adding rot to the plant is necessary when the soil nutrients are drained but is not needed for crafting the farm plot
-Plants take a lot of days to grow (at least a weak) but since they can be planted en masse the provide a lot of positive gain
-Crops can be destroyed by zombies
-Food degradation is mandatory as it adds a difficulty level as well as a means to get fertilizer in the game.
We need realism back in the game. If you've played zomboid you'd know it's not hard to find seeds and make a little bit of soil. The hard part is watering the plants (this can be automated on 7d2d) and taking care of the plants that grow very slowly.
Hoe is not necessary but farm plots should work as a super fertilizer like in A16 . Feeding the crops with water and taking care of them should be a bigger focus.
Some ideas I've gathered from other games like zomboid, don't starve, the long dark and the forest:
-Finding seeds should be fairly common
-You randomly gather seeds from harvesting plants.
-Food rot should act as a fertilizer (not as an ingredient)
-Seeds are edible
-Watering the plants is mandatory (but can be automated)
-Adding rot to the plant is necessary when the soil nutrients are drained but is not needed for crafting the farm plot
-Plants take a lot of days to grow (at least a weak) but since they can be planted en masse the provide a lot of positive gain
-Crops can be destroyed by zombies
-Food degradation is mandatory as it adds a difficulty level as well as a means to get fertilizer in the game.
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RipClaw
Hunter
In A17 I would have agreed with you but in A18 the tier 1 quests give you so many healing bandages and first aid kits that you have a large supply. Also, once you have a proper armor, you rarely bleed.
This is true, but you can also get the ingredients in other ways. One point in Living of the Land and you get double the amount even for wild plants and the trader sells the ingredients as well.
You only get sick from cooked food. Canned food is safe and if you take vitamins you can even eat old sandwiches without getting food poisoning.
That canned food has given food poisoning in A17 has been an important incentive for farming. This is lost in A18.
You can find grain alcohol in larger amounts in medical piles. Moreover, grain alcohol is only used in a few recipes and none of it is produced in large quantities.
The canned food is not that expensive and the vending machines can be found in many POIs. So you don't have to travel far.
And you can find a lot of canned food while looting.
I tested that. I just drove around for 2 full days and collected the roadkills. I also looted two Doggos and killed 5 or 6 vultures. In the end I was able to make 20 farm plots. If I had done that without grinding, it probably would have taken 2 or 3 weeks to get the same amount of rotten meat.
Moonshine is in my opinion funny but useless. You see everything twice and blurry and you can't fight properly.
The Learn'n Elixir needs 2 cans of dog food, a flash acid, 2 jars of red tea and a jar of beer. Dog food and acid can only be bought or found. You can make the red tea yourself but you can find the flowers in large quantities so that a garden is not necessary. Beer is often found when looting and can also be bought from vending machines.
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G
Guest
Guest
edit: I see someone else just made a point by point reaction right before mine, I missed that. Apologies for doubling up on some of the arguments.
I don't even remember what moonshine does, but I doubt it's worth the backpack slot it occupies. I rarely use the buffing items anyways. They're pure and simple "win more" stuff that just sits on your tool belt for a special occasion that never comes.
My point in typing all this out is not to join in with the "plots too expensive" crowd, since I don't really have an issue with the material cost. My point it that you go through the trouble of doing something the immersive/realistic way, only to find out that that opening a few kitchen cabinets would've netted you better results. And then there's the Secret Shamway recipe to turn all other food into a joke, should you run into it.
The whole bloody skill/perk/ability whatever system is like this. Some perks are made redundant by other perks or stuff you find in the world, while others are more or less must haves for any playthrough.
The ♥♥♥♥ty part is that it's going to stay like this into gold, because with the carpet bomb-style of updating that TFP has adopted, it's going to take ages to sort through the feedback and balance out the different abilities and items in a meaningful way.
Currently playing in the desert, day 44, warrior difficulty, and focusing melee. I think I made a couple of first aid bandages myself because I happened to find the recipe, but quickly discovered regular bandages (that stack to 10 instead of 5) to stop bleeds is all you really need. The lost health can easily be recovered with painkillers (if you're in a rush) or.. canned food.
Sure, but the foods that don't make me sick (and waste a ton of food as a result) are efficient enough. I've barely touched the meat I found in almost 60 hours of playing A18, why go through the trouble and waste perk points to stack useless potatoes on top of that?
Again, canned food does this, and better.
Why would you need grain alcohol? The medkits that stack to 5, are overkill for most wounds and are easily replaced with.. regular bandages and pain killers (until you perk into self healing at least).
Are you playing MP with low loot or something? Because in my SP games I've used vending machines a handful of times, but never had to rely on them.
Almost completely useless imho. 20% extra XP isn't going to do anything by the time you're able to craft learnin' elixir. Unless you can make so much it's permanently active, but if that's the case, you're probably so far along that more XP won't really matter anyways.
I don't even remember what moonshine does, but I doubt it's worth the backpack slot it occupies. I rarely use the buffing items anyways. They're pure and simple "win more" stuff that just sits on your tool belt for a special occasion that never comes.
My point in typing all this out is not to join in with the "plots too expensive" crowd, since I don't really have an issue with the material cost. My point it that you go through the trouble of doing something the immersive/realistic way, only to find out that that opening a few kitchen cabinets would've netted you better results. And then there's the Secret Shamway recipe to turn all other food into a joke, should you run into it.
The whole bloody skill/perk/ability whatever system is like this. Some perks are made redundant by other perks or stuff you find in the world, while others are more or less must haves for any playthrough.
The ♥♥♥♥ty part is that it's going to stay like this into gold, because with the carpet bomb-style of updating that TFP has adopted, it's going to take ages to sort through the feedback and balance out the different abilities and items in a meaningful way.
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Pichii
Refugee
My sentiments exactly. There is 0 point because of effort needed to use it.
Sure, you CAN use it as it sits and I agree, this is still the best gardening has been in 7d2d so far...
But... Its still uncomplete.
I love farming but I flat out ignore it in A18 just because I have too much other stuff to do and cant be asseed to look for bears at level 1 for the meat I need for a farm or tracking and attacking dogs. You flat NEED other things to survive first and you can get food during those trials so gardening is moot.
Combine that with the lost damage, defence and craftables youd lose from the perks you have to re-invest; its genuinely structured for mid-late game when it should be at least somewhat viable at all stages.
We have gone thru this dance before. If its not worth it; it gets ignored cept by ppl who enjoy farming. If its too good; everyone does it and theres 0 challenge to gathering food.
I just want it useful at ALL stages of the game, not just certain spots.
And dont get me wrong; you can MAKE anything work.
But gardening is definately feels super bad in the early game especially when it could be doing the most work and id like to see some slight rebalancing.
Increase recipie costs again and make it so you can just garden with a harvest of 1 regardless of other modifyers wit a hoe.
Gardening is good at all stages again. Still limited by finding/crafting a hoe as well. Problems solved.
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AtomicUs5000
Refugee
Oh I see. Yeah, that’s weird... but you know, Shamway Foods had the best chemists. They figured out exactly the right amount of bones and lead-based paint required. They were so good at it that Oscar Meyer just couldn’t keep up with the competitive prices.
Hek Harris
Refugee
On my last game, I don't use vending machines, I don't buy food at the trader and I set the loot rate at 50%.
And I can tell you that agriculture is great...
Different playstyles = different needs.
Farming has NEVER been important in 7 days: killing animals and eating grilled meat have always been enough. With the alpha 18 and the different buffs brought by the food, growing our own plants can be interesting, but for that you have to play with the parameters.
And I can tell you that agriculture is great...
Different playstyles = different needs.
Farming has NEVER been important in 7 days: killing animals and eating grilled meat have always been enough. With the alpha 18 and the different buffs brought by the food, growing our own plants can be interesting, but for that you have to play with the parameters.
AtomicUs5000
Refugee
Setting aside criticisms and ideas of things that could make farming better, I have a feeling that this is just a part of something more to come. I don’t think the suggestion I made will be used as I described it in full, but I do think the plan is to introduce recipes involving farmed + canned and different buffs along with them.
I think this because madmole keeps mentioning wanting these buffs added and there is that recipes thread that was separated from the dev diary just before A18 came out.
I think this because madmole keeps mentioning wanting these buffs added and there is that recipes thread that was separated from the dev diary just before A18 came out.
Pichii
Refugee
Yeah, some basic food and CANNED CAT FOOD.
You have to loot to get the super-tier stuff.
lol
- - - Updated - - -
When did you first start playing? A17?
Farrming was indeed important in A15/16. lmao!
EVERYONE had a farm by day 7. x'D
Yeah, its your playstle to use a farm but its totally unnecessary and the slowest option which is part of the point of this discussion.
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Hek Harris
Refugee
A8. :kiss:
PPanda0421
Refugee
Uh 7D2D is all about looting...
Yeah its your play style if you want to farm or not, that's fine.
Looking at another point of view buying canned foods is total unnecessary for us farmers. Right now, I have a decent size farm that produces enough crops every 3 - 4 days (/w default settings) that I can make 10 steak and potato meals each harvest. That's not including other crops that I can use to make drinks/healing. I previously speced for farming/gathering resources so right now I have over 20 stacks of steak and potato meals in storage. I always carry a stack of food steak and potatos meal and a stack of red tea with me. Only takes up 2 inventory slots. Other slots can be used for other loot.
To me what's slow is traveling around to different vending machines (daily) hoping they sell enough food to satisfy me for the day. Vending machines are random since they also sell drinks. Farms are guaranteed.
IMHO, vending machines are for early game. Progression for me is when I can produce my own food.
However if you like vending machines that's fine. Play whichever game style suits you.
Pretty sure that is intended. You are assuming that having everything you need by day7 is a good thing. I dont see it that way for sure. Having to work towards self reliance only makes sense for a survival game.
Also being able to cheese your Max HPs up with that OP farm you started on day2 (and make grain alcohol which you could have stamina forever) was, well, cheesy like a Pizza Hut walk-in .
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