BobTheBard
New member
You know, for that huge blob of text you put forth, you missed one very fundamental thing. What if people aren't doing a level 5 trader quest?
PC Gamestage balancing may need to be looked at
- Thread starter Jugginator
- Start date
You know, for that huge blob of text you put forth, you missed one very fundamental thing. What if people aren't doing a level 5 trader quest?
Ghostlight
New member
Firstly why go into a tier 5 POI then? Scavenge in smaller, easier buildings. Common sense?
Second, tier 5's typically have 2 to 3 loot rooms and many of them are much bigger than those in smaller POIs, so even without a quest they can be worth it.
Third, TONS of XP.
And finally, where I am there is absolutely nothing else to do in the game except tier 5 quests. We have everything; this is our artificial end-game. Most players will end up doing the same. It's actually fun - as long as you accept that the reward will be crap and it costs 500 shells to find out.
Tier 5 POIs are a major under-taking. Not to be taken lightly, and certainly not to be entered for scavenging purposes. This is the end game. Prepare for it like you would horde night. Think of it like your guild's raiding nights in WoW. I relish the prospect of taking on many hundreds of Irradiated!
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BobTheBard
New member
Ah. I see a key concept in your posts now that I didn't before, one thing that makes all the difference.
We. Group. Guild.
You're assuming everyone plays this game with a group. Many people don't. And the fewer people you have the more of a problem this is simply because you can't just send someone off to the mines and spend all day making bullets for you while you do other things. The 7 day timer keeps moving at the same rate regardless of how many people are in the game, and the gamestage doesn't much care how many people are around when it spawns things. So now imagine fighting those 75 rad-zombies by yourself, with no friends, with nobody backing you up, and knowing you're going to have to replace all of those bullets yourself before the next blood moon requires you to use even more of them. And then do it all with half the skills you have now, because as a single player you can't afford to specialize like you can when you're with a group. Maybe then you can get to see how this might become a problem for a lot of people.
We. Group. Guild.
You're assuming everyone plays this game with a group. Many people don't. And the fewer people you have the more of a problem this is simply because you can't just send someone off to the mines and spend all day making bullets for you while you do other things. The 7 day timer keeps moving at the same rate regardless of how many people are in the game, and the gamestage doesn't much care how many people are around when it spawns things. So now imagine fighting those 75 rad-zombies by yourself, with no friends, with nobody backing you up, and knowing you're going to have to replace all of those bullets yourself before the next blood moon requires you to use even more of them. And then do it all with half the skills you have now, because as a single player you can't afford to specialize like you can when you're with a group. Maybe then you can get to see how this might become a problem for a lot of people.
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RestInPieces
New member
Doesn't the game already use the worst kind of level scaling?
...were you seriously thinking of putting monster affixes/icons in the ui? :apathy:
And why would you need these or hp bars to "scale" them in various ways and not just use (non-cartoony) visual indicators instead?
Guppycur
Well-known member
Seems very much like a "I'm going to take my ball and go home" post gazz...
Level areas, where you would expect them to be. Problem solved.
Or hell, just use sheer numbers... Keep them spawning, like you do the blood moon.
Performance issues you say?
Trigger area activates the spawns, say, 50' from a door, and the spawns happen on the other side of the door... They all pour out.
Once you cross the door, the spawn moves to the other side of a different, unexplored door... And so on.
Spawns always happen out of sight. Yes, you'd need painted/shaped trigger areas.
You guys are smart, you could figure it out.
Numbers, not sponges.
Level areas, where you would expect them to be. Problem solved.
Or hell, just use sheer numbers... Keep them spawning, like you do the blood moon.
Performance issues you say?
Trigger area activates the spawns, say, 50' from a door, and the spawns happen on the other side of the door... They all pour out.
Once you cross the door, the spawn moves to the other side of a different, unexplored door... And so on.
Spawns always happen out of sight. Yes, you'd need painted/shaped trigger areas.
You guys are smart, you could figure it out.
Numbers, not sponges.
fragtzack
New member
Agree with guppy. ++numbers of zombies spawning and not ++hp zombies.
If you are inside the POI, make them spawn right outside long as out of sight from the player. Be awesome if some new zombies appear that come through the entrance you used to enter the POI. Would make for a lot of oh crap moments.
If you are inside the POI, make them spawn right outside long as out of sight from the player. Be awesome if some new zombies appear that come through the entrance you used to enter the POI. Would make for a lot of oh crap moments.
How did 'Not' having HP bars for zeds stop this from happening? Why couldn't you keep them 'only' as a dev tools to help scale the changes? Why would they need to be displayed as a bar? Couldn't you also use audio cues instead to signify the change or whatnot? couldn't you use changes like their eye's getting brighter? their attacks getting faster? use a particle effect to denote the change? different animations?
Just some Ex: Zed health at 75% their eye's get brighter. Zed health at 50% <use particle effect>. Zed health at 25% their attacks start to increase. Zed health at 50% the zombie lets out a roar with accompanying animation..
RestInPieces
New member
They could do a myriad different visual indicators with little effort, for example, using the particle system, attached 2D textures or different shaders. Preferably imo more immersive and less cartoonish than glowing eyes etc. And hopefully they think of more interesting effects other than speed or regeneration.
I can understand where you're coming from, and I don't intend for them to come right at 300, but at the very least I don't think a single green zombie should show up until, say, 75-100.
Regardless of level 100, 300 being the max, many people are reporting seeing greens as early as the first week or two, and that's just not right in my opinion.
Druga Runda
New member
+1
Yes please. We have sponge games everywhere. Sponges are easy, numbers are hard.
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apostrophe
New member
Lessons can be taken from Bethesda games and their scaling enemies. Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and 4, the enemies in these games followed your progression in the game, meaning that everyone is always more or less up with you. This has been criticized in retrospect, because if all enemies scale with you, there won't be dangerous spots which will frighten early level players and reward high level players, like there are in Fallout New Vegas.
In FNV a new player simply cannot wander into some areas as the enemies there will waste him in seconds (cazadores!). This restricts the player and will be frustrating, yes, but in a tough love manner, the same player, having leveled up enough can return later and claim its bounties, which is an incredibly rewarding feeling.
In FNV a new player simply cannot wander into some areas as the enemies there will waste him in seconds (cazadores!). This restricts the player and will be frustrating, yes, but in a tough love manner, the same player, having leveled up enough can return later and claim its bounties, which is an incredibly rewarding feeling.
Actually, I myself prefer this over the "gamestage" method. It feels more immersive to me and more enjoyable as well. Personally, I want a system where the further you progress from the "newbie" zone the harder things get. I would find so much more enjoyment from this. Not only would this encourage exploration, but you can actually plan your progression properly rather than be "forced" to progress via gamestage.
I've never liked the whole gamestage thing, to be quite honest. It FORCES you to face harder zombies, rather than face them on your own terms when you want. The other advantage of this is if you're feeling especially adventurous, you could face the harder zombies at level 1 if you're crazy enough.
As a player, I always hate being "Forced" to do anything.
You know what too? This would also all but eliminate complaints of "grinding" and "level gating". You want better loot? Take more risks. Tackle the harder POI's. You want a casual gameplay? Take your time and progress at your own pace. Choose your own adventure!
Right now making vehicles is actually somewhat superfluous at least if you have loot set to respawn, because the same loot, generally speaking, will be in a 1-2 km radius of spawn as it will be 10 km out. The encouragement of exploration alone would add a lot of gameplay IMO
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Royal Deluxe
New member
Feel free to randomize them
What i still not understand is why the team dont utilize the infection more.
Bad azz infection = only given by Hazmat zombies = Player will fight them only on distance.
(The infection is the big threat in the Zombie genre)
Further more zombies that have special moves like (Snakes), Vultures and Spiders.
How about a Human zombie that has a evil ram attack and kill 2000 Block hp on his charge. (Way to counter = Kill during he charge his charge or be on a other layer (no attacks on other high levels))
And finally Shooting zombies (thorns, faster and more often than cops) that make you take cover and stop you rushing (Well bandinds will deliver this ? )
But so long the tactic against a zombie or different said, the main characteristics of the zombies are still intact, randomize the hell out of them. I wish no Heath bars for that. IN real life they would have no health bar too
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(Btw i died yesterday the first time against zombies (well at least so far i remember), well my base was a bit small, and the Puking enemys in the X64 Horde got me down, and then a exploding cop finished me, yeaa that was unexpected ^^)
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There are a couple of drawbacks and potential problems with what I mention, but I think easily enough fixed.
One is how to define the "newbie zone"? Clearly, it probably won't work right unless the newbie zone is around 0,0 coordinates with the current way maps are set up. So you would need to spawn new players around this area.
or
Maybe you can do like ARK does it. You can choose roughly where to spawn. You could spawn in the 0,0 region (easy start), a little further out (medium start), or far out (hard start) etc...
this would also solve the problem we run into MP a lot which is spawning several km from each other
One is how to define the "newbie zone"? Clearly, it probably won't work right unless the newbie zone is around 0,0 coordinates with the current way maps are set up. So you would need to spawn new players around this area.
or
Maybe you can do like ARK does it. You can choose roughly where to spawn. You could spawn in the 0,0 region (easy start), a little further out (medium start), or far out (hard start) etc...
this would also solve the problem we run into MP a lot which is spawning several km from each other