PC Game feels like its punishing me for levelling up

Forgive my grumpiness this fine day, but that's what happens when you find a gun at every 2nd POI, lootlists are all over the place, resource sinks are not enough and traders feel like Walmart on Christmas Eve. Next logical step - rarer legendary stuff.

 
I see one potential resolution that i think would satisfy most people here (seeing by the comments here, but also my own reflections on the topic). This is ofcourse apart from raising the amounts of loot you get (or the type of loot, including new items), but i think would greatly enhance how people would like to play.

Modifiable gamestage evolution throughout the game.

In short, it would be a setting for a specific map where you choose one of the many ways GS is calculated. Additionally, add a slider on how fast GS would increase - this would be independent (allowing tougher zombies, but GS rising differently) of game difficulty or on the other hand equal to it (so no slider).

1. Zombie kill counter based. - The more zombies you kills, the higher the GS. You don't kill Zs, you don't get higher GS. This should not be 1 zombie = 1 GS and definitely would require some tweaking.

2. Level based. - The higher your level, the bigger the GS. This is alongside how you advance with skills. At later stages you would need more skillpoints to advance some skills, meaning the GS would increase faster than your skills later on. Base values could be something like 1 level = 1 GS seems plausible, but you could get 1 level = 2 GS after level 50, 1 level = 3 GS after 100, etc. to get the game harder.

3. Time based. - The longer you play, the higher the GS. You could focus on power levelling to get the skills, knowing that sooner or later you'll get overwhelmed. Base values could be 1 day = 1 GS, but after each bloodmoon the increase would highten. So till day 7 you would have increase 1 per day, till 14th would be 2 per day, till 21th 3 per day, etc. This way you wouldn't have GS 20 on day 20, still with mostly the same enemies, but vastly greater skills.

4. Zombie kill counter + Level based. - Different than current mix, a more focus on killing and level raising. In tune for players wanting to leisurely play, not caring much about time passed or the zombies.

5. Time based + Level based. - Current option we have.

6. Zombie kill counter + Time based. - Aimed for those that want to power level not by killing zombies.

7. Time + Level + Zombie kill. - All types into one, meaning the GS will rise fast. Not for the faint of heart.

To some extent this would feel like such diverse games like Rimworld, where you can tweak and mod so many things, yet lets you play as you really want, changing the increase of the "difficulty" in so many different ways.

 
All we need are two multiplicators in the gamestage calculation

(Vanilla gamestage calculation) * XML multiplicator * Option multiplicator

The XML Multiplicator is set to 1 (But can be used by mods, maybe ideally inside buffs too *)

and the option multiplicator is set to 1 too as default setting but can be

0.1, 0.25, 0.5, 0,75, 1, 1.5, 2, 4, 10

* (like lootabundance should be too))

 
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Yah, my biggest issue with this game is how quickly it degenerates into glowing green jumping spider spitter zombies. Normal zombies are more interesting.

 
I see one potential resolution that i think would satisfy most people here (seeing by the comments here, but also my own reflections on the topic). This is ofcourse apart from raising the amounts of loot you get (or the type of loot, including new items), but i think would greatly enhance how people would like to play.
Modifiable gamestage evolution throughout the game.

In short, it would be a setting for a specific map where you choose one of the many ways GS is calculated. Additionally, add a slider on how fast GS would increase - this would be independent (allowing tougher zombies, but GS rising differently) of game difficulty or on the other hand equal to it (so no slider).

1. Zombie kill counter based. - The more zombies you kills, the higher the GS. You don't kill Zs, you don't get higher GS. This should not be 1 zombie = 1 GS and definitely would require some tweaking.

2. Level based. - The higher your level, the bigger the GS. This is alongside how you advance with skills. At later stages you would need more skillpoints to advance some skills, meaning the GS would increase faster than your skills later on. Base values could be something like 1 level = 1 GS seems plausible, but you could get 1 level = 2 GS after level 50, 1 level = 3 GS after 100, etc. to get the game harder.

3. Time based. - The longer you play, the higher the GS. You could focus on power levelling to get the skills, knowing that sooner or later you'll get overwhelmed. Base values could be 1 day = 1 GS, but after each bloodmoon the increase would highten. So till day 7 you would have increase 1 per day, till 14th would be 2 per day, till 21th 3 per day, etc. This way you wouldn't have GS 20 on day 20, still with mostly the same enemies, but vastly greater skills.

4. Zombie kill counter + Level based. - Different than current mix, a more focus on killing and level raising. In tune for players wanting to leisurely play, not caring much about time passed or the zombies.

5. Time based + Level based. - Current option we have.

6. Zombie kill counter + Time based. - Aimed for those that want to power level not by killing zombies.

7. Time + Level + Zombie kill. - All types into one, meaning the GS will rise fast. Not for the faint of heart.

To some extent this would feel like such diverse games like Rimworld, where you can tweak and mod so many things, yet lets you play as you really want, changing the increase of the "difficulty" in so many different ways.
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I like it!

 
This does not have to be the fix. You could leave the gamestage alone and give us rewards worth fighting for?
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The way the game stage xml is setup, it's going to be hard not to change the game stage for a number of reasons. For people not fond of ferals at GS 50+, so like level 40 day 10, difficulty settings don't really help much. Game difficulty seems to much more notably impact game difficulty in mid to late game. When the multiplier has larger numbers to bite on. Early game, without the larger numbers of level and days alive, the variance between game difficulty seems to be marginal at best. Unless you shoot things up to insane. But the first three difficulty modes are like 1.1, 1.3, and 1.5 multiplyers. Then I think it goes to 2.0 and 2.5. The lower game stages could use a bigger difference than a .2 multiplier, but the gamestages.xml still should be tweaked.

Personally, I think the easiest mode shouldn't even hit ferals till GS 120+. Especially with a lvl 300 Max. Then scale the rest of the difficulties from there. And high end multipiers could probably use being pushed up. So the last two go from 2.0 and 2.5 multiplier to something like 2.2 and 2.7. especially should the Gamestage.xml get moved as I recommend for the lowest difficulty.

 
I suppose, for context purposes, there have been people wanting to see "boss zombies" added to the game to make horde night and POIs more "worth it". I may be taking things from other threads and including them into my thoughts here.
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I don't think boss zombies are something for the horde night. The horde night is all about mass. I see boss zombies more as guards of the big loot boxes in POIs.

 
I'm a HUGE Borderlands fan and used to speedrun Borderlands 2. Grinding the "bosses" for "legendary weapons" was a ton of fun, I just don't see how it would fit in this game. To grind the bosses for the drops required many MANY restarts just to get the item you wanted. Not sure that has a place in 7DTD, but sounds like it's coming.
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Damnit Poppa, you talking all this Borderlands is making me want to do another Psycho run XD But yea, I can see legendary items/mods being in the end of the large POIs worth going through rad-armies for. Not worth doing it for 12 rounds of 7.62, some duct tape, random mid-quality guns and maybe some extra ammo.

 
Damnit Poppa, you talking all this Borderlands is making me want to do another Psycho run XD But yea, I can see legendary items/mods being in the end of the large POIs worth going through rad-armies for. Not worth doing it for 12 rounds of 7.62, some duct tape, random mid-quality guns and maybe some extra ammo.
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Even 200 Bullets and a Q6 Weapon/Tool is is not worth in my last games

A Epic weapon/tool (with a chance to be better than my current) is a whole other story

 
Damnit Poppa, you talking all this Borderlands is making me want to do another Psycho run XD But yea, I can see legendary items/mods being in the end of the large POIs worth going through rad-armies for. Not worth doing it for 12 rounds of 7.62, some duct tape, random mid-quality guns and maybe some extra ammo.
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LMAO, I love BL2. I just got burnt on it. I was 8th on the speedrun boards for UVHM Geared run. I think last I checked it dropped down to 12th. I, at one time, knew pretty everything about that game. Still love it though and am pretty tight with the streamer community for it since I used to be a BL2 streamer lol.

 
Even 200 Bullets and a Q6 Weapon/Tool is is not worth in my last gamesA Epic weapon/tool (with a chance to be better than my current) is a whole other story
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Yeah, precisely. Horde nights I don't get any loot and don't care because that's the point about it. But if going through a POI means I have to fight rad-armies (actually, STRONGER than horde nights usually, and harder since I'm in a maze of traps and etc in the building) for worthless rewards... count me out, I'll stay in my base or go out mining/wrenching cars. Hell, I think the last POI building I hit up I got a handful of ammo (not even near 200 bullets), an anvil (...lol), a stack of rebar frames (...lol.......), some gold/silver nuggets (i... guess thanks?), level 1 steel boots (okay... scrap I guess), and a blue shotgun. Aside from that, I got some random clothes, some cloth, empty cans, some glue, a couple cooking pots, some random gunpowder laying in a cabinet, prob some canned foods from looting randomly in the beginning area. Was it worth fighting rad-armies for? No, not really, especially since it took me an entire ingame day until ~3am. Worth at the start of the game where that's needed stuff and everything inside wasn't rad? Of course.

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LMAO, I love BL2. I just got burnt on it. I was 8th on the speedrun boards for UVHM Geared run. I think last I checked it dropped down to 12th. I, at one time, knew pretty everything about that game. Still love it though and am pretty tight with the streamer community for it since I used to be a BL2 streamer lol.
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Yeah lmao. Nice, I thought about doing speed runs but I burnt myself out before I did so. I enjoy the atmosphere of the game. And I reaaaaly love playing as the Psycho. Nothing like playing as an OP, invincible, walking death machine that doesn't even care about loot. Give me a Rough Rider, a good class mod, an unkempt herald and I am good for whatever lol!

 
I'm past that hour mark myself, and got there in a embarrassingly short period of time. But can no longer get into the game. That could be due to other things...But for someone like me who always preferred more of a Romero/Walking dead type of zombie I'd really like to be able to finally stop getting my butt rampaged by something I don't even want in the game lol. Especially when things are seemingly unbalanced.
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This is really not a dismissive "mod it" comment but a sincere suggestion.

If you like the Romero/Walking dead type atmosphere I suggesting trying the Overhaul Mod Scavengers of the Living Dead

Roll the game back to A16.4 and install this. For me it gives that exact kind of atmosphere you talk about. It's very easy and I'd be happy to explain installation if you have troubles.

 
Yeah lmao. Nice, I thought about doing speed runs but I burnt myself out before I did so. I enjoy the atmosphere of the game. And I reaaaaly love playing as the Psycho. Nothing like playing as an OP, invincible, walking death machine that doesn't even care about loot. Give me a Rough Rider, a good class mod, an unkempt herald and I am good for whatever lol!
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Speedrunning it burnt me out on it, knowing exactly when/where every enemy spawned and the quickest route through it really diminished the value of the game to me.

My preferred was Sal. Right gear and perks = literally un-killable lmao

 
Don't know if I'm up with the idea. Finding items like "Wicked Hunting Knife", "Lucky Bone Shiv", "Pistol of Fear", "Iron Shovel of Digging", feels like Diablo or Borderlands. I'm on the fence here. Will enemies also get these denotations? "Chuck Corrupted Cop" (a rare bloated cop), "Daisy the Black Widow" (a rare stripper zombie), "Willy Foreman of Dread" (hardhat zombie).
This certainly adds rewards and variety for loot and enemies, respectivaly, but it'll also certainly steer the game into the action RPG genre.

edit: besides, "Blood Hammer Bringer of the Final Sleep" is ridiculous.
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I think they can do it without the cheesy type names. How about just finding a M60 machine gun or a Diamond Tipped Auger? I'd rather more depths than just uber versions of the same things.

 
Speedrunning it burnt me out on it, knowing exactly when/where every enemy spawned and the quickest route through it really diminished the value of the game to me.
My preferred was Sal. Right gear and perks = literally un-killable lmao
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Yeah lol. If you never played a Psycho you'd enjoy it, he's like an insane-version of Sal but with melee. He's more skill-based on his invincibility, you gotta be up on your game. Slip up a few times and you lose the invicibility -- he really is what gave me like.. an additional 200 hours of gameplay when I was burnt-out and said "welp, enough is enough I'm done with Borderlands 2". They said, "But wait -- there's more! Play as Kreig" and I said, "God damnit alri... dude this is fun! SALT THE WOUNDS!!!!" -- nothing like MELEEING Terramorphus in OP8 because Kreig lmao.

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I think they can do it without the cheesy type names. How about just finding a M60 machine gun or a Diamond Tipped Auger? I'd rather more depths than just uber versions of the same things.
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Agreed

 
I think they can do it without the cheesy type names. How about just finding a M60 machine gun or a Diamond Tipped Auger? I'd rather more depths than just uber versions of the same things.
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Playing the devil's advocate for the Diablo loot type: randomly generated items will theoritically never get old; each one will be a different item than the other.

The same can't be said about your M60 example. After you find one, what will you'll find next? A m249. Ok, and after that? A gatling gun? And after that? and so on. You'll have variety for variety's sake.

It is certainly a difficult system to tweak.

I was thinking of Fallout New Vegas. Hidden in a corner of the map you could find a special minigun in bottom of a crater, that had its own model. Every weapon had its unique type. They were a blast to find and to have. This, could be the case here. Say, "Maria", a special 9 mm pistol with a customized grip (cough cough) would be found in the cellar of house x in the map, be it Navezgane or RGW.

Another case comes to mind. Team Fortress 2 has different versions of each weapon. Interestingly, none is better than the other. The Brass Beast for example, is a variation of the Minigun; it hinders your movement while firing even more but deals more damage.

I think this sort of "creative precision" could be nice to see and would complement what you have in mind.

 
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Yeah lol. If you never played a Psycho you'd enjoy it, he's like an insane-version of Sal but with melee. He's more skill-based on his invincibility, you gotta be up on your game. Slip up a few times and you lose the invicibility -- he really is what gave me like.. an additional 200 hours of gameplay when I was burnt-out and said "welp, enough is enough I'm done with Borderlands 2". They said, "But wait -- there's more! Play as Kreig" and I said, "God damnit alri... dude this is fun! SALT THE WOUNDS!!!!" -- nothing like MELEEING Terramorphus in OP8 because Kreig lmao.
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I have OP8'd every character many times over lol

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Playing the devil's advocate for the Diablo loot type: randomly generated items will theoritically never get old; each one will be a different item than the other. The same can't be said about your M60 example. After you find one, what will you'll find next? A m249. Ok, and after that? A gatling gun? And after that? and so on. You'll have variety for variety's sake.

It is certainly a difficult system to tweak.

I was thinking of Fallout New Vegas. Hidden in a corner of the map you could find a special minigun in bottom of a crater, that had its own model. Every weapon had its unique type. They were a blast to find and to have. This, could be the case here. Say, "Maria", a special 9 mm pistol with a customized grip (cough cough) would be found in the cellar of house x in the map, be it Navezgane or RGW.

Another case comes to mind. Team Fortress 2 has different versions of each weapon. Interestingly, none is better than the other. The Brass Beast for example, is a variation of the Minigun; it hinders your movement while firing even more but deals more damage.

I think this sort of "creative precision" could be nice to see and would complement what you have in mind.
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Having the variety would also keep us looking for the "perfect variant" of said item.

 
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