PC Game Development 101 (and other arguments)

madmole

madmole

Fun Pimps Staff
You bought that asset bundle from him?
Click to expand...
Todd is my hero. But 10+ years between elder scrolls versions? I had high hopes to play about 10 more before I croak not 1-2. Should have shipped one in 2016 and another in 2020. They lost at least 2 billion dollars with this delay.

 
Todd is my hero. But 10+ years between elder scrolls versions? I had high hopes to play about 10 more before I croak not 1-2. Should have shipped one in 2016 and another in 2020. They lost at least 2 billion dollars with this delay.
Click to expand...
Its done when its done....

OHHHHHHHH!!!!!! dayyyyum….

 
Todd is my hero. But 10+ years between elder scrolls versions? I had high hopes to play about 10 more before I croak not 1-2. Should have shipped one in 2016 and another in 2020. They lost at least 2 billion dollars with this delay.
Click to expand...
One of the most (if not THE most) charismatic game developer/producer/director i've ever seen. They've made some mistakes but I love Bethesda, Fallout saga and 7 Days to die are my favourite games (and i've play a LOT of games in my 24 years of life).

 
I prefer to remain anonymous.
"Go make your own game that is actually fun if its so easy" - done

"Add voxels to it and use Unity and tell me how easy it is." - done, it isn't

"Code it on top of 7 years of other peoples code." - I made my living doing this with a wide variety of code bases and several times the variables were named in other languages such as Turkish, Arabic and Slovenian.
Click to expand...
Still what game is it that your bragging about? Can't claim this stuff then refuse to prove it imo. If there are multiple people that worked on the game, its not like they'll pinpoint who you are, nor do they care really. They just wanna see if your game can live up to your bragging is all, and so do I. I need something to play till a18 hits anyway.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Todd is my hero. But 10+ years between elder scrolls versions? I had high hopes to play about 10 more before I croak not 1-2. Should have shipped one in 2016 and another in 2020. They lost at least 2 billion dollars with this delay.
Click to expand...
I used to respect him as a designer until he started sacrificing good gameplay in the name of accessibility. Still respect him as a businessman though.

 
One of the occasions I agree with VictoriousIII, though I would have refrained from posting the know-it-all remark at the end :cocksure:
Click to expand...
You are one of the few that actually intuitively see the three i's as I's and therefor "the third"...

and then you somehow corrected the hard K to a c :D god dammit. you were so close to greatness :D

And my selfrighteousness really only happens to come out on this forum because I was right so often and people just kept claiming the same stupid arguments :p (not saying I'm better or anything! :D It is just frustrating to say 6+6=12 and someone says "but I only have 10 fingers so there is no way to count that high" over an over. And yes... it truely is like that sometimes on here :D (*cough* "why do you care how I play" is probably the most acknowledged one)

Also thank you for agreeing :D

 
I used to respect him as a designer until he started sacrificing good gameplay in the name of accessibility. Still respect him as a businessman though.
Click to expand...
I'd disagree. Everything they made more accessible is a better design. Morrowind and Oblivion were overdesigned in some areas and they cleaned that up well in Skyrim. Spell creation: Klunky and was deleted. Leveling was streamlined. Classes removed. Armor needing repair was nuked. All better for the game IMO.

Its a designer trap to make things overly complicated. Its actually very easy to make a klunky complicated design. Some odd players like that stuff, most don't.

I tried Cities Skylines last night, I bought it in 2016 lol. Gave up on it in under 5 minutes, reading multiple paragraphs and "studying" on a Friday night is not my idea of fun. I've heard its a great game and it probably is, but there has to be a better way of teaching than making someone read a ton of garbage and make them feel like they are probably making a mistake by doing anything.

 
[...] Spell creation: Klunky and was deleted. Leveling was streamlined. [...] All better for the game IMO.
Click to expand...
I mean... it is just THE most requested feature in the elderscrolls...

but I mean... that is you I guess :D If something isnt optimized, just scrap it and replace it with nothing instead of tweeking it so it is better.

(#sorrynotsorry for that snarky tone, but it is true that this is one of 7d2d biggest flaws in my opinion and reading your comment I think I can trace it back to you. Removing something that is absolutely unbalancable is rarely okay. But not replacing it with something else leaves unnatural holes in the product, especially, but not exclusively for people who already played it before.)

 
I'd disagree. Everything they made more accessible is a better design. Morrowind and Oblivion were overdesigned in some areas and they cleaned that up well in Skyrim. Spell creation: Klunky and was deleted. Leveling was streamlined. Classes removed. Armor needing repair was nuked. All better for the game IMO.
Its a designer trap to make things overly complicated. Its actually very easy to make a klunky complicated design. Some odd players like that stuff, most don't.

I tried Cities Skylines last night, I bought it in 2016 lol. Gave up on it in under 5 minutes, reading multiple paragraphs and "studying" on a Friday night is not my idea of fun. I've heard its a great game and it probably is, but there has to be a better way of teaching than making someone read a ton of garbage and make them feel like they are probably making a mistake by doing anything.
Click to expand...
In this case, I would disagree simply on the basis that some folks preferred the Oblivion style of actually having to choose a class and such. Heck, even with Skyrim, I have actually downloaded mods that implement such a thing in it, even though Skyrim at its core was never meant for it.

As for Cities Skylines, I can kinda see where you didn't like it. I don't think I had to read too much but that's just my experience.

Now on-topic, are there any more trader improvements coming? Like right now in-game there is the trader NPC and then are the rentable vending machines that be rented in the trader settlement. Are there any improvements that will come to incentive the player to use those rentable vending machines more? The only thing the in-game journal has about those vending machines is that a player can put things in it to sell and "NPC" will occasionally buy from it. Personally, for me the improvements I would like to see for that mechanic are:

- Putting in more information in the journal as to what the "NPC" prefer to buy and how often they would buy from it

- Being able to rent vending machines at all the traders instead of being locked to that one vending machine

 
On this day marks the 50th anniversary of Apollo, the first moon landing! :)

Be careful, some of those old farts are still around. ;)

 
Sorry if this has been asked and answered recently, but can we still expect the first A18 experimental to drop in August?
Click to expand...
Plausible, dates are not discussed because the complexity of the game.

 
I'd disagree. Everything they made more accessible is a better design. Morrowind and Oblivion were overdesigned in some areas and they cleaned that up well in Skyrim. Spell creation: Klunky and was deleted. Leveling was streamlined. Classes removed. Armor needing repair was nuked. All better for the game IMO.
Its a designer trap to make things overly complicated. Its actually very easy to make a klunky complicated design. Some odd players like that stuff, most don't.

I tried Cities Skylines last night, I bought it in 2016 lol. Gave up on it in under 5 minutes, reading multiple paragraphs and "studying" on a Friday night is not my idea of fun. I've heard its a great game and it probably is, but there has to be a better way of teaching than making someone read a ton of garbage and make them feel like they are probably making a mistake by doing anything.
Click to expand...
While I'd agree that complexity for the sake of complexity is a designer trap, I'd also argue that removing complexity that expands gameplay and adds depth because you want to widen your target audience/make it more user-friendly is also a trap. I think that in the end, complexity is only valuable when it adds something practical.

7D is already fairly complex and full of examples of that kind of complexity ranging from the forging/crafting process to player needs, so I can't imagine that you don't value it. Didn't spell making belong to that category of complexity though? It offered both practical value and was something to be coveted by players for various other reasons. They could have improved and build on it instead of throwing it away. Imo it was something worth salvaging. I read Todd's interview about it, but I think the real reasons it was thrown away were mostly technical.

Complexity is one of Skylines' selling points, in a way. It has sold excellently after all. But yes, there surely is a better way of teaching than throwing a ton of information at once at the player, as you have also said many times before.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If MM thinks Cities Skylines is too complex, he better stay away from other Paradox games, hehe..
Click to expand...
I love the paradox games. I like their complexity. You can spend hours optimizing traffic in Cities Skylines and it's a lot of fun. Or in Surviving Mars you must make sure that the population growth doesn't get out of hand and that you always have enough oxygen, energy and food.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I love the paradox games. I like their complexity. You can spend hours optimizing traffic in Cities Skylines and it's a lot of fun. Or in Surviving Mars you must make sure that the population growth doesn't get out of hand and that you always have enough oxygen, energy and food.
Click to expand...
Yeah indeed! Or the micromanagement involved with Crusader Kings 2.

Not to say those games are per se better than 7 days, of course.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top