G
Guest
Guest
Boy, you really can't have a discussion without taking silly personal jabs, can you? You do this in pretty much every thread. How about you learn to disagree with people without showing your insecurities?
PC Eliminate Attributes Entirely?
- Thread starter OldManBrian
- Start date
Kalarro
New member
agree. wtf Katitof. All your answers to my post can be summed up with: you lack imagination to play another way.
My point is clearly explained, I dont think tieing the choice of combat build with beeing able to gather better should be a thing. I dont think this shows how I am just unimaginative to play other way. I could survive this game many ways, I have never ever complained about the games combat beeing too hard, the other way around. It's just not worth IMO to play this game with mediocre combat and best building ever as a combat game. And that doesnt mean I dont enjoy needing to fight zombies. That's what makes verything tie togeather. i wouldnt build If I wouldnt need defenses. Im a builder, but not a creative builder.
Last edited by a moderator:
Katitof
New member
I'm merely adapting to the one I'm responding to.
@Kalarro I have a habit of calling things for how they are. You're stiffly claiming no other playstyle is viable, I'm correcting you in saying "for you", because that's what it is, multiple people are playing just fine without the perks you feel yourself pidgeon holed into. Its nothing more then a matter of leaving your own comfort zone and I'm calling you out for it.
Also, what I'm saying has absolutely nothing to do with combat.
No one forces you to use stun batons exclusively because you like to have steel and crafting stations early.
hotpoon
New member
Completely agree with the OP and the general consensus that the skills should be more accessible so we can choose how we want to play without wasting points in stuff we don't care about.
If I want my 'build' to matter, I'm going to go play a proper RPG like Path of Exile. In a sandbox survival game, such as this, I just want to level up what interests me so that I can role play how I want to.
If I want my 'build' to matter, I'm going to go play a proper RPG like Path of Exile. In a sandbox survival game, such as this, I just want to level up what interests me so that I can role play how I want to.
That mod sounds great, I'll be keeping an eye on it.
This is why "level skills by using them" was always a superior system. It gated perks, but it felt more natural. You knew you could go out and use that skill again and work it to get more of the skill. Gave you a serious goal to work towards rather than the arbitrary "gain xp".
Spam crafting was an issue in multiplayer, so, yeah, that had to be addressed, however, the way it was handled (in my opinion) was like nuking an ant. Skills gained could even be limited from day to day (similar to elder scrolls "resting" after gaining enough skills for a level up.)
Building your own skillset will almost always be more fun/less restrictive to players, but we need a focus on making all perks at least desirable, even if they aren't outright totally balanced.
Spam crafting was an issue in multiplayer, so, yeah, that had to be addressed, however, the way it was handled (in my opinion) was like nuking an ant. Skills gained could even be limited from day to day (similar to elder scrolls "resting" after gaining enough skills for a level up.)
Building your own skillset will almost always be more fun/less restrictive to players, but we need a focus on making all perks at least desirable, even if they aren't outright totally balanced.
Only got to end of page 2, will go back and read the remaining page and a bit after posting this. But wanted to chime in early because so far no one really seems to have touched on this.
There's a lot of non-combat related perks, (the easiest example to name is a dedicated food supplier for a group), that combo well or in a necessary to a particular role way with other perks outside the same attribute group. A dedicated food supplier needs cooking, animal tracking, farming and animal harvesting. Thats 4 perks spread across 3 attributes and it' far from the only example of this kind of thing.
There's a lot of non-combat related perks, (the easiest example to name is a dedicated food supplier for a group), that combo well or in a necessary to a particular role way with other perks outside the same attribute group. A dedicated food supplier needs cooking, animal tracking, farming and animal harvesting. Thats 4 perks spread across 3 attributes and it' far from the only example of this kind of thing.
A Nice Cup of Tea
New member
That ship sailed a long time ago - when they put in the traders, quests, and factions.
Brian9824
New member
The problem was for SOME skills it felt natural, for others like crafting, armor, etc it felt very unnatural.
I never want to have to sit there crafting hundreds of shovels or iron chest armor to raise my skills ever again. It was one of the worst design decisions TFP ever made IMO.
Or the standing on a cactus spamming bandages to raise my medicine
Or sitting there letting zombies hit me to raise armor.
The problem was that so many skills were important, but never used enough to create a way to level them via using. The only way it could have worked was to make SOME skills level by using them such as combat skills, and then make other misc skills level via points in a hybrid system that would be very confusing
CoolBreeze
New member
I like the RPG-like system just because it forces you to pick a way to play rather than simply being a god at everything. That being said, I also am not a fan of the way the current system is set up. It feels very punishing to have to use perk points for either an ATTRIBUTE or a PERK. I do like the idea behind the attributes though. Personally I feel like if they did sort of a combo thing, like when you level you get points to invest in an attribute and that attribute affects how well you level with the governed skills and then when you get the skills to a certain level you are rewarded with a perk point to give yourself some extra oomf with that skill. For instance: You level up and get 3 points which you pump straight into your INT, which makes you a more capable crafter (maybe have skill caps based on attribute levels) so you work on leveling your crafting, by spam crafting if you must, and get to being able to make steel tools BUT since you don't have steel tool parts that's kinda moot right? Wrong. You have some perk points that you have saved and you invest them in the perk that allows you to craft steel tool parts and BAM. Now you can craft steel tool parts and make steel tools for everyone in your crew/for yourself.
Something like maybe 3 points per attribute per level with the attributes affecting skill caps and also having passive bonuses of their own, like every 10 points in strength gives you 2 extra inventory slots and its a percent damage scaler for club-like weapons so 20 STR would be 20% more damage with clubs ect... Add in a perk point maybe every 3-5 levels so you can upgrade a skill with bonus capabilities once its high enough but at the same time you aren't going to be able to min-max every skill with perks in the game.
Setting it up like that I think would make it feel a lot more forgiving in terms of how you spend your points and also the way that you scale. For instance if you spec heavily into Perception and have almost no points in Intelligence it doesn't completely cut you off from being able to make things but since your INT is super low you are never gonna be able to craft a T6 item, however you can basically 1-shot rads with a sniper rifle round to the forehead so that makes you a straight killer on horde night.
Just kinda my thoughts on it.
EDIT: This is based on the idea of a attribute max level 100 with maybe 5ish tiers of skill level (based on item quality level for tiers so each level corresponds to a level 1 increase. With INT it would be a tier of crafting capability, with strength maybe a melee damage bonus, agility perhaps a speed boost, fortitude perhaps a health boost ect, perception a range weapon damage boost ect....)
Something like maybe 3 points per attribute per level with the attributes affecting skill caps and also having passive bonuses of their own, like every 10 points in strength gives you 2 extra inventory slots and its a percent damage scaler for club-like weapons so 20 STR would be 20% more damage with clubs ect... Add in a perk point maybe every 3-5 levels so you can upgrade a skill with bonus capabilities once its high enough but at the same time you aren't going to be able to min-max every skill with perks in the game.
Setting it up like that I think would make it feel a lot more forgiving in terms of how you spend your points and also the way that you scale. For instance if you spec heavily into Perception and have almost no points in Intelligence it doesn't completely cut you off from being able to make things but since your INT is super low you are never gonna be able to craft a T6 item, however you can basically 1-shot rads with a sniper rifle round to the forehead so that makes you a straight killer on horde night.
Just kinda my thoughts on it.
EDIT: This is based on the idea of a attribute max level 100 with maybe 5ish tiers of skill level (based on item quality level for tiers so each level corresponds to a level 1 increase. With INT it would be a tier of crafting capability, with strength maybe a melee damage bonus, agility perhaps a speed boost, fortitude perhaps a health boost ect, perception a range weapon damage boost ect....)
Last edited by a moderator:
Sitting on a cactus to level up an armor skill is just like someone spam crafting stone axes to level tool smithing. Part of the problem...there are ways to be creative and combine different actions, or employ work order systems to gain skill points. I do still love perks, perks make the game exciting when you level up, however perks controlling every aspect of your skillset, regardless of how you worked to level just feels lazy and weird, especially when (in my opinion) a better system was already in place.
Hollowprime
New member
I know I've said it sometime in the past but I think the New Vegas had the best perk system overal:
Every level you gained 15 skill points which you would scatter on skills .
Each class started with a better skill percentage than the rest .
Skills provide linear bonuses like 1% battering per level or 1% better chance at not missing with the weapon or 5 hp per % of endurance.
Perks were unlocked every other level and would require a minimum skill percentage to unlock.
It really looks like the current 7 days to die system, except perks were more of like talents and skills were what we now have as stats.
I thereby heavily support the idea that stats and perks are separate entities . Theoretically you would gain 1 stats per level but you'd also gain 1 perk per level or other level. You could still level intelligence for instance but you'd want to get heat/cold resistance instead of leveling your turret perk (which would require 2 points in intelligence stats anyway).
Every level you gained 15 skill points which you would scatter on skills .
Each class started with a better skill percentage than the rest .
Skills provide linear bonuses like 1% battering per level or 1% better chance at not missing with the weapon or 5 hp per % of endurance.
Perks were unlocked every other level and would require a minimum skill percentage to unlock.
It really looks like the current 7 days to die system, except perks were more of like talents and skills were what we now have as stats.
I thereby heavily support the idea that stats and perks are separate entities . Theoretically you would gain 1 stats per level but you'd also gain 1 perk per level or other level. You could still level intelligence for instance but you'd want to get heat/cold resistance instead of leveling your turret perk (which would require 2 points in intelligence stats anyway).
Yes, totally agree with you. There were so many skills in LBD that you could never raise easily. So it lead to spam craft or doing the things you say. I remember running around slashing the ground constantly to raise raise my blade skill. The only ones that really felt okay were construction and gun/blunt weapon types since you used them a lot. I'm so glad TFP got rid of that system it just felt grindy to me. Now I just do what I want in the game.
