PC Do you guys like this new leveling system ?
- Thread starter Hadecro
- Start date
beHypE
New member
This. I at least would like to understand the thought process behind removing the one thing that actually made scavenging and looting both exciting and different in each playthrough. I wouldn't mind the skill/perk tree at all if almost EVERYTHING wasn't gated behind it. It's not so the level gates that disturb me, but more so that everything can be calculated and obtained at the same pace in every playthrough. Books was the one thing that made the replayability as awesome as it was, and it was the main reason dicovering new cities was thrilling because you'd hope to find a Crack-a-Book in them. With everything simply being a matter of obtaining enough skillpoints (and it doesn't matter whether it's by killing zeds or by mining stone, and how well it's balanced), the excitement and the NEED to go out to raise your knowledge got lost.
Madmole, could you give us your thoughts on why books were bad and why this new system feels better for you ?
Fwiw, I think the game and the skill tree would be in a pretty awesome state if we removed the intelligence tree and brought back books instead. The 4 other attributes are pretty nice and feel like you power up along the way, but the intelligence part ruins it by a big margin.
Jedo
New member
Spam crafting was an exploit but spam killing isn't? I mean, they nerfed zombie xp precisely because it wasn't the intention that you could farm zombies to level. You'll have to do some better explaining to get around this riff on your words:
"Just because you can do something, does not mean you should lmao. I never once farmed zombies in A17 because I didn't have to lol. Just because you made a choice to abuse an exploit doesn't mean the game was bad. You just made a bad choice and it killed your fun imo."
Guppycur
Well-known member
There should be several methods to unlocking things.
Finding recipes (via rwg loot).
Buying recipes (from trader).
Earning recipes (from completing quests).
Learning recipes (from doing).
...but, that would go against the simplification system TFP is developing in their attempts to marginalize their own potential.
Finding recipes (via rwg loot).
Buying recipes (from trader).
Earning recipes (from completing quests).
Learning recipes (from doing).
...but, that would go against the simplification system TFP is developing in their attempts to marginalize their own potential.
This looks to me a bit like you have been developing a "cargo cult". You interpret every bug, idiosyncracy or half-developed feature the game throws at you as a sign of the "gods" what you should do now. :fat:
There are RPGs where the normal time for a playthrough is 40 to 60 hours. It is your choice whether to play them or play something like LoL or PUPg where essentially you play half an hour and then start again.
Usually the 1 hour playtime becomes a problem if there are lots of things to remember from last time, like which NPC said what about some other NPC or where is the trader that could sell you that special item you need right now. If that is your problem, write down the stuff you want to do next on a piece of paper when you have to stop playing. If on the other hand the only solution you find to problems in the game is get more XP, then the game probably is not the best fit for you.
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Totally agree. They could have added so many interesting ways to unlock stuff. POIs related to a recipe. Very tough to complete early on but eventually you get good enough to do them meaning you will always unlock the recipe at some point. Specific zombies that have a higher chance to drop them. Find a working forge/workbench/chemstation and unlock the recipe by using them for some amount of time.
PoppaTot
New member
No sir (ma'am?) when the game has added more zombies to POIs, added dungeon houses specifically loaded the houses up with zombies, increased the XP per zombie (recently nerfed a tad in this build but still the main XP source), and nerfed all other XP sources, it would a stretch by any means of the word to consider that a sign of the "gods" what I should do now. That was made glaringly obvious by the development path. One can only assume what we should do later in reference to balancing.
BloodDeacon
New member
No. To me the dumbed down progression system probably makes the devs' job easier on the surface, since they don't have to worry about specifics of balancing individual skill gain and perk requirements against each other and against any sort of day/week progression standard. I say "on the surface," because balancing global XP gain across tasks and advertised play-styles is still quite difficult, and it's clear that a delicate or even reasonable balance hasn't been found yet in A17e.
The good news is that it seems many of the modders I follow have been finding ways to reverse this change, so the new system went from a deal-breaker for me to a nuisance. I'm beginning to accept that this simpler model for progression may be better for the base game and general population. OTOH, I will say that a poll put up by Roland earlier suggests that those who frequent the forum have very mixed opinions.
The good news is that it seems many of the modders I follow have been finding ways to reverse this change, so the new system went from a deal-breaker for me to a nuisance. I'm beginning to accept that this simpler model for progression may be better for the base game and general population. OTOH, I will say that a poll put up by Roland earlier suggests that those who frequent the forum have very mixed opinions.
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madmole
New member
I just don't see how its fun to "get hit" to improve at endurance. How is it fun bunny hopping jumping and falling to improve agility? (Oblivion) What if you love melee combat, and you maxed out your strength? You could no longer progress at strength activities and you would be forced to do things you don't want to do to advance your character which is lame (Skyrim one handed/two handed was this way). How is spam crafting stuff you don't need engaging to advance intellect?
The current system allows you to play how you want, not spam craft, and not partake in activities that you aren't interested in to progress. Just play the game and advance and have nice perks to specialize in. I think its 1000x better than anything we've ever had if you just relax and focus on survival instead of staring at the XP bar.
As far as leveling speed, its a double edged sword. It takes time to build a fort and scavenge enough decent weapons and gear and if you level too fast you are NOT ready for the game staged nasties that come your way.
The current system allows you to play how you want, not spam craft, and not partake in activities that you aren't interested in to progress. Just play the game and advance and have nice perks to specialize in. I think its 1000x better than anything we've ever had if you just relax and focus on survival instead of staring at the XP bar.
As far as leveling speed, its a double edged sword. It takes time to build a fort and scavenge enough decent weapons and gear and if you level too fast you are NOT ready for the game staged nasties that come your way.
pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
The Quests alone force you too fight a lot. It´s now all about fighting. The early guns suck bigtime. Guns shouldn´t be a thing until day 30 tbh.
This version has no freedom. Builders got demolished. Stealth is not an option. (Someone show me how to stealth a trader fetch quest, i say it´s impossible without killing)
Finally forge isn´t a day one thing and now they are everywhere ready to use. Why?
Also why the questmarks at the rally point that ruin immersion bigtime? They serve nothing for gameplay other than breaking the immersion.
This version has no freedom. Builders got demolished. Stealth is not an option. (Someone show me how to stealth a trader fetch quest, i say it´s impossible without killing)
Finally forge isn´t a day one thing and now they are everywhere ready to use. Why?
Also why the questmarks at the rally point that ruin immersion bigtime? They serve nothing for gameplay other than breaking the immersion.
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Could turn this a complete 180: im not going to keep playing after i have 'done everything' to grind out levels for 'perks'. As far as 'constant engagement' thats a pretty bull♥♥♥♥ statement, the same applied in A16 in regards to keep leveling up and unlocking things, the difference was that system actualy felt engaging.
So the confessions of multiple developers that zombie xp is too much were lies or misdirections? That less zombies are in houses now is no sign of balancing but due to their bad conscience? All the players who called for a lot more zombies in an area instead of bullet sponges were never a reason to put more zombies into the game? All the players who lamented about empty cities were not a reason to put more zombies there? That in A16 digging in sand was by far the fastest xp source doesn't show that balancing is not that easy but that sand-digging was glaringly obvious the development path of A16?
I have perfectly valid reasons and explanations to see the changes in a different light. But obviously, besides pointing at occams razor, I can't prove anything,
Look at the power attack. It was quite clear and obvious that having no use for the normal attack is not intention but a balancing issue (or do you have a conspiracy theory for that as well?). If the developers had time to play the game a few dozen hours they probably would have seen this. Now was this intention or just the result of developers who had not played the game much before releasing the experimental? Either because they were already so far behind their schedule or because their intention was to release at the earliest time and not have any balance pass before the release.
I could give you more examples to show that it is very unlikely that they had time to test A17e before release. The first release had no level gates for example. Obviously nobody had time to test before release if that worked. Or was that intention as well?
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I don't find it fun to have to get hit to improve a skill, I find that a ridiculous system that may as well not exist. However, I also don't find it fun to just buy a perk and get the same benefit. If you don't wanna take so much damage, then how about you stop getting hit so much. Or maybe you craft some better armor. If you keep breaking your legs, then stop falling. Not everything needs a skill or perk, some of it should be down to your own skill and knowledge of the game.
Spam crafting can be squashed by adjusting crafting times, materials needed and limiting/excluding xp gains from certain items past a specific point. Also, requiring specific items, like crucibles, can also block progress.
Learning by doing doesn't require attributes.
Show me an xp bar and i'm gonna obsess over it. Can't tell me to relax and focus on survival when there is leveling to be done!
Maybe I will continue playing in future updates or if/when certain mods are released, but for now I just can't enjoy it.
Edit: In regards to your Elder Scrolls examples, in a later patch for skyrim, they added the option to make skills legendary which reset them allowing you to raise them again. Despite all the silly ways you could raise your skills, it didn't make all that much difference if you used them as those game have a ♥♥♥♥ ton of content.
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This is where our opinions meet. That xp bar and the xp popup should be removedShow me an xp bar and i'm gonna obsess over it. Can't tell me to relax and focus on survival when there is leveling to be done!
HerrKingsley
New member
Mad Mole. Why would you limit your self to building a system identical to another game.
If you think "getting hit" is a lame way to level endurance. Why would you use it?
Why not give multiple abilities:
When killing zombies with melee weapons you gain strength, agility AND endurance.
When killing zombies with range weapons you gain perception and I dont know intelligence?
Why would you think that one action only can give experience to one ability?
If you think "getting hit" is a lame way to level endurance. Why would you use it?
Why not give multiple abilities:
When killing zombies with melee weapons you gain strength, agility AND endurance.
When killing zombies with range weapons you gain perception and I dont know intelligence?
Why would you think that one action only can give experience to one ability?
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