PC Dew collector nerf in New update?

[Renathras]

Wow, this is still going? People really will complain about anything. As mentioned before, all workstation type things are supposed to generate activity. It was absent on the dew collector altogether, and apparently bugged on the other stations. They fixed/normalized this. Stop crying about it. A dew collector causes a third of the activity as a forge or workbench. It ain't that bad. The sky looks nice and secure up there from where I'm standing...

People aren't "crying about it", they're making valid points and arguments.

Your own point about "all workstation type things" has already been refuted, had you bothered to read posts before replying to a thread with said posts in it. You might not have restated a point that's already been refuted, if nothing else.

EDIT:

Hell, the post right above yours - MY POST - even directly refutes the argument. As I pointed out, the Dew Collector was meant to replace gathering water by hand to slow and gate that process. And gathering water by hand didn't generate heat, and you could get 125 water all at once doing so.

Moreover, the Dew Collector cannot be turned of manually. You have to do a janky work-around by leaving it full, which isn't something you can control, unlike literally every other workstation where you can manually turn them off with a flick of a switch.

At least get up to speed on a discussion before wading into it. Helps prevent putting one's foot in one's mouth, at the least. And don't go into a conversation insulting people you disagree with ("crying about it"), especially when said people are making valid and rational points and you're just dismissing them as being whiny, which is kind of a jerk move.

 

[bdubyah]

People aren't "crying about it", they're making valid points and arguments.

Your own point about "all workstation type things" has already been refuted, had you bothered to read posts before replying to a thread with said posts in it. You might not have restated a point that's already been refuted, if nothing else.
 

Except I read the OP and that's what I'm replying to. I don't have time to read the walls of text you're putting out there. It isn't that important. From the posts I skimmed people had just started turning this into another "A21 sucks!" thread and I'm not wading through that garbage to find the one or two useful posts, sorry. They're "valid points and arguments" to you and maybe a few others that don't agree with the changes, but that means nothing to anyone else.

Hell, the post right above yours - MY POST - even directly refutes the argument. As I pointed out, the Dew Collector was meant to replace gathering water by hand to slow and gate that process. And gathering water by hand didn't generate heat, and you could get 125 water all at once doing so.

Uh...that's the point, man. It was TOO EASY before. So they made changes. Adapt. Or don't play anymore. Or mod it out. I don't really care. Reading through your above post you're just yet another one of those people that is made you can't build some stupidly simple base and survive forever. Sounds like the game isn't for you anymore. Nothing wrong with moving on.

 

[Renathras]

They're "valid points and arguments" to you and maybe a few others that don't agree with the changes, but that means nothing to anyone else.

By this token, why even post? Your points are only valid to you and "maybe a few others that agree with the changes, but that means nothing to anyone else."

If people are refuting your points, that means something. If you don't like having your points refuted, don't make stupid points that have already been refuted.

As to your last paragraph:

I want to respectfully say go F yourself, but I try not to be so crass. I will say the two posts you've made in reply here have been you being a pretty big jerk, though. I've been playing this game for years. I have every right to complain about it changing into something it was never original, nor seemingly intended to be when I paid money for it. If you don't like that, stay off the forums. Nothing wrong with not reading forums, as it sounds like the forums aren't for you anymore.

Also, making caricatures of people's playstyle is more "crying about it".

It seems to me you don't like people having different opinions than you and can't stop "crying about it". Seems like from your post above you're just yet another one of those people that is mad you can't post on the forums without pushback from people making good points and refuting your arguments. Maybe these forums just aren't for you anymore. Nothing wrong with moving on.

Maybe don't belittle and marginalize people and actually listen to what they have to say. Who knows, you might learn something.

 

[bdubyah]

By this token, why even post? Your points are only valid to you and "maybe a few others that agree with the changes, but that means nothing to anyone else."

If people are refuting your points, that means something. If you don't like having your points refuted, don't make stupid points that have already been refuted.
 

This crap happens every Alpha release. It just happened once the dew collector was shown off. Now comes the second wave of people who don't follow that close and weren't aware of the changes. Unless you are refuting TFP's points for making these changes, it's meaningless squabble. And they have their reasons and I doubt a few upset people on the forums are going to do much to sway them. I'm sure there might be more balance on it all before it's all said and done, but I doubt it will be very massive changes.

I want to respectfully say go F yourself, but I try not to be so crass. I will say the two posts you've made in reply here have been you being a pretty big jerk, though. I've been playing this game for years. I have every right to complain about it changing into something it was never original, nor seemingly intended to be when I paid money for it. If you don't like that, stay off the forums. Nothing wrong with not reading forums, as it sounds like the forums aren't for you anymore.

Forums are for more than just people thinking the game is ruined. It's just that lovely time when all the complainers come out with not enough experience with the changes to really know what they think. I just get tired of every new thread being a rehash of the same nonsense. You say the game is you have the "right to complain about it changing into something it was never original, nor seemingly intended to be". And that is? It's still a survival crafting game with some rpg and tower defense elements, same as it has always been. If someone not agreeing with you makes them a jerk, maybe the forums aren't for you.

It seems to me you don't like people having different opinions than you and can't stop "crying about it". Seems like from your post above you're just yet another one of those people that is mad you can't post on the forums without pushback from people making good points and refuting your arguments. Maybe these forums just aren't for you anymore. Nothing wrong with moving on.

I don't care how people play the game. You're the one complaining about how you feel you have to play it. What good points? All I see is people mad because they can't have a chest full of murky water on day 1 anymore. Or that they don't get their precious jars back, even though you never got other consumable's containers back. There are literally people here saying that because a field of dew collectors can draw screamers, the game is broken. Stop overreacting. Or, you know, go back and play an older version of the game, which TFP has been kind enough to allow, and just be happy. Or mod the things you don't like about the game. Anything more productive than this. Again though, it just really sounds like the game isn't for you anymore.

 

[BFT2020]

I like the change.  It doesn't prevent people from making as many dew collectors as you want, but as you increase the number of them, there is a cost associated with it.  Similar to forges, the more you have, it starts to cost you (in terms of heat activity).

Screamers only become an issue when they detect you.  As it has already been mentioned, there are a lot of ways to address them - they home towards the activity source, but are still in scout mode.  I have used a sniper perch at my base to take them out without letting them know where I was and scream.

 

[Lasher]

By this token, why even post? Your points are only valid to you and "maybe a few others that agree with the changes, but that means nothing to anyone else."

If people are refuting your points, that means something. If you don't like having your points refuted, don't make stupid points that have already been refuted.

As to your last paragraph:

I want to respectfully say go F yourself, but I try not to be so crass. I will say the two posts you've made in reply here have been you being a pretty big jerk, though. I've been playing this game for years. I have every right to complain about it changing into something it was never original, nor seemingly intended to be when I paid money for it. If you don't like that, stay off the forums. Nothing wrong with not reading forums, as it sounds like the forums aren't for you anymore.

Also, making caricatures of people's playstyle is more "crying about it".

It seems to me you don't like people having different opinions than you and can't stop "crying about it". Seems like from your post above you're just yet another one of those people that is mad you can't post on the forums without pushback from people making good points and refuting your arguments. Maybe these forums just aren't for you anymore. Nothing wrong with moving on.

Maybe don't belittle and marginalize people and actually listen to what they have to say. Who knows, you might learn something.

I'm afraid, Renathras, that many of us that disagree with the changes that TFP make and the way they've been developing the game are sadly starting to realise that there's not much value in raising valid points in these forums.

You'll come up against pretty much the same stock responses over and over and seeing as this often comes from folk in a position of power there's very little you can do about it.

For those of us that don't like it we're left with mods - it's the only real option to undo some of the mess - unfortunately that's just the way it is - believe me - I've tried.

 

[theFlu]

I have used a sniper perch at my base to take them out without letting them know where I was and scream.

That, for active people; and for lazy ppl like me, just path your base somewhat reasonably and a couple of spikes handles early issues, and a single turret handles all the later game issues.

 

[Tactical_Zombeh]

I'm afraid, Renathras, that many of us that disagree with the changes that TFP make and the way they've been developing the game are sadly starting to realise that there's not much value in raising valid points in these forums.

You'll come up against pretty much the same stock responses over and over and seeing as this often comes from folk in a position of power there's very little you can do about it.

For those of us that don't like it we're left with mods - it's the only real option to undo some of the mess - unfortunately that's just the way it is - believe me - I've tried.

I stopped posting with complaints years ago because this is always the case.

 

[meganoth]

Well ofc you'd label my position "extreme"

- that's again the label for any dissent.

As for why I do "EA" - I do it plenty - in games that respect the term - so let's not roll out that old chestnut of an excuse eh?

Once again - there was nothing "Tantrum" about it - my position is that there's some serious problems with the way TFP develop - I'm unaware of the cause but if you speak to any serious games or software dev and show them this project they'll tell you that after 10 years it's a car crash.

So who is this serious games or software dev? Tell us his name, or let him speak here.

The last parts of your post were interesting - it was bordering on criticism - which is exaclty what TFP are in dire need of.

There is a very practical difference there. I try out changes and actually test them to find out whether there is something to critizise. You know, the scientific method. 

 

[BFT2020]

There is a very practical difference there. I try out changes and actually test them to find out whether there is something to critizise. You know, the scientific method. 

 

[Slingblade2040]

Except I read the OP and that's what I'm replying to. I don't have time to read the walls of text you're putting out there. It isn't that important. From the posts I skimmed people had just started turning this into another "A21 sucks!" thread and I'm not wading through that garbage to find the one or two useful posts, sorry. They're "valid points and arguments" to you and maybe a few others that don't agree with the changes, but that means nothing to anyone else.

Uh...that's the point, man. It was TOO EASY before. So they made changes. Adapt. Or don't play anymore. Or mod it out. I don't really care. Reading through your above post you're just yet another one of those people that is made you can't build some stupidly simple base and survive forever. Sounds like the game isn't for you anymore. Nothing wrong with moving on.

Lol it's still easy to collect a ton of murky water. Folks like you and the mods will defend the most nonsensical updates or anything the pimps throw out because any criticism is according to you folks is whining and complaining.

Maybe if you actually bother to read instead of skimming through you might learn something.

First it was about water needing to be important and this is a survival game then they moved the goal posts to make it about crafting bulk duct tape and now oh well you shouldn't be able to mass produce water with some kind of cost like *heat* and as usual the same folks applauded every one of those lame excuses. 

Wanna know something that would have actually really fixed the whole water thing? Removing those stupid vending machines and nerfing the traders but oh wait then folks like yourself or others said that it isn't fair and to mod my playstyle because reasons. 

As usual the pimps made a problem, didn't like what the players were doing and nerfed it. Hell you barely have to craft anymore in this game just do some trader quest and loot that sweet end dungeon loot. Hell even bullet crafting is pointless since you can run low tier infestation with melee and end up with thousands of rounds of ammo by horde night. Game keeps becoming more looter shooter every update because who cares about those kick starter promises since they got the money now.

 

[Ttocs]

I like it and as someone said its activity not heat, at my non horde base i almost have no reason to make defences because its so quiet. bring on some action and a reason to make defences for it 

 

[Slingblade2040]

So unless I'm wrong with my little tests. 1 dew collector is 2% *heat activity* every in game hour or so.

10 dew collectors will spawn in a screamer after 5 in game hours or so. 

Feel bad for those in MP since this will affect you the most. In single player I honestly think this will affect those who prefer perception tree and use demo expert since again this screws you over also. But hey ignore all of that because this nerf was deemed necessary for some reason.

Looks like the solution is now trader travel and vending machine travel so you can buy up all the drinks, glue and duct tape till that gets nerfed or they nerf this since folks will use this as an easy exp farm lol.

 

[AllTheGoodNamesAreInUse]

The solution seems to be to just give up on base building and just spend 100% of time looting and doing trader missions. 

Not enough water? FIND IT IN LOOT

Not enough ammo? FIND IT IN LOOT

Not enough Dukes? DO TRADER JOBS

Can't craft anything? FIND IT IN LOOT

I get it. Loot, Trader, Loot, repeat.

 

[Old Crow]

Kinda pointless like your arguments right?  

Only because you disagree with my arguments. Gotta stroke that Fun Pimp ego, right?

The solution seems to be to just give up on base building and just spend 100% of time looting and doing trader missions. 

Not enough water? FIND IT IN LOOT

Not enough ammo? FIND IT IN LOOT

Not enough Dukes? DO TRADER JOBS

Can't craft anything? FIND IT IN LOOT

I get it. Loot, Trader, Loot, repeat.

Or "just mod it"

 

[hiemfire]

So unless I'm wrong with my little tests. 1 dew collector is 2% *heat activity* every in game hour or so.

10 dew collectors will spawn in a screamer after 5 in game hours or so. 

Feel bad for those in MP since this will affect you the most. In single player I honestly think this will affect those who prefer perception tree and use demo expert since again this screws you over also. But hey ignore all of that because this nerf was deemed necessary for some reason.

Looks like the solution is now trader travel and vending machine travel so you can buy up all the drinks, glue and duct tape till that gets nerfed or they nerf this since folks will use this as an easy exp farm lol.

Trader shop stock is individually instanced to each player and the filters are supposed to have a good-great chance to be in stock every 3 day reset iirc. Depending on how rapidly they accrue the dukes, shouldn't be an issue for a questing/looting focused group (which is where TFP wants us to focus right now), at max officially supported server size (8 players) a group could end up with 56 collectors chugging along on day 21 or 22 just from trader stock. Fuel-less horde summoning activated by simply harvesting the "workstation" with the check trigger ticking over a little bit less than every 5 minutes real time. If they don't want to deal with the hordes, leave the area for about an hour real time and comeback to the hordes despawned and the collectors turned off due to being full..

Edit: Seriously, the dew collectors have more in common with farm plots (place down, poke a bit after a set and unchanging bit of time, then walk away and come back later to repeat) than they do with workbenches and forges.

 

[meganoth]

So unless I'm wrong with my little tests. 1 dew collector is 2% *heat activity* every in game hour or so.

10 dew collectors will spawn in a screamer after 5 in game hours or so. 

Feel bad for those in MP since this will affect you the most. In single player I honestly think this will affect those who prefer perception tree and use demo expert since again this screws you over also. But hey ignore all of that because this nerf was deemed necessary for some reason.

Looks like the solution is now trader travel and vending machine travel so you can buy up all the drinks, glue and duct tape till that gets nerfed or they nerf this since folks will use this as an easy exp farm lol.

Was the buildup of heat continuous over an in-game hour or is it a jump of 20% every hour? I would assume it was continuous, but like to be sure.

 

[Rince]

I'm afraid, Renathras, that many of us that disagree with the changes that TFP make and the way they've been developing the game are sadly starting to realise that there's not much value in raising valid points in these forums.

You'll come up against pretty much the same stock responses over and over and seeing as this often comes from folk in a position of power there's very little you can do about it.

For those of us that don't like it we're left with mods - it's the only real option to undo some of the mess - unfortunately that's just the way it is - believe me - I've tried.

And how about the opinion of the many who disagree with your disagreement? Their opinion doesn't count?

Your opinion is right because... because is yours?

I don't know, always bother me when people try to make their opinion more valuable saying that they speak for "them" and when people affirm that they have the only and absolute truth.

I may not like all the changes and features, I will forever tell to anyone that ask that A19 farming was my favorite because at least wasn't annoying, but that's my opinion, and only that. I can and will say it, but not try to pass as the absolute truth of the universe.

 

[minisith]

The solution seems to be to just give up on base building and just spend 100% of time looting and doing trader missions. 

Not enough water? FIND IT IN LOOT

Not enough ammo? FIND IT IN LOOT

Not enough Dukes? DO TRADER JOBS

Can't craft anything? FIND IT IN LOOT

I get it. Loot, Trader, Loot, repeat.

yep this is a looter game.    Congrats on finding that out.

And how about the opinion of the many who disagree with your disagreement? Their opinion doesn't count?

Your opinion is right because... because is yours?

I don't know, always bother me when people try to make their opinion more valuable saying that they speak for "them" and when people affirm that they have the only and absolute truth.

I may not like all the changes and features, I will forever tell to anyone that ask that A19 farming was my favorite because at least wasn't annoying, but that's my opinion, and only that. I can and will say it, but not try to pass as the absolute truth of the universe.

And they still have not put it back in.  So what does that tell you.....  You are beating a dead horse.

 

[Slingblade2040]

Was the buildup of heat continuous over an in-game hour or is it a jump of 20% every hour? I would assume it was continuous, but like to be sure.

Yeah it was on the dot 20% increase every one. I'm sure some folks who are way better with this stuff can test out to make sure.

Even if we go with what the trader sells of 3 filters and the thought process was oh each player would only make 3 collecters then a MP server that has a group of 5 people would end up with 15 collectors and that will still not even meet everyone's water needs, especially if someone goes perception for the demo perks. 

No idea why they won't get rid of the screamers and just do away with the *heat activity map* nonsense. I rather them increase the frequency and size of wandering hordes. Along with alot of other unpopular stuff like removing vending machines especially now that they sell the freaken buff items. Food and drink aren't an issue in SP worlds but that's a whole other thing.