PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17
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Aldranon
New member
That's closer to what I want as well. Dump the moaning and groaning and leave the indicators on below 25%.
Of course if it was realistic, you would have a fat% and fat would keep you from losing health for several days (might lose some muscle and bone mass). Eat more than you need and you have more fat%.
That would be cool.
JaxTeller718
New member
But he has said a LOT and it has changed. I need concrete answers NOW.
Joking aside this is good enough for me. The buffs system has huge potential and we all know weather is borked in its current form. The fact it will be revisited is enough to keep me from complaining over it now.
Imagine a world where digging through a corpse for loot could get you infected or needing to wash off after a horde night. I mean it gets messy. Smell should be an issue in attracting unwanted nasties.
Roland
Community Moderator
I think some of you have been keeping your food bar topped off for so long it hasn’t been since the sound effect was implemented that you’ve actually listened to it. It’s not that bad and is in fact necessary for playing with invisible hud. It’s the only indicator at all for hunger and thirst.
So let’s leave it in.
Aldranon
New member
I guess I'll live.
Just a couple thoughts to help reduce the OCD flare-ups in the forum:
-If you over eat, the overeaten amount is kept but not displayed. So food is not wasted. Is this already done?
-(new idea) Not being able to die until wellness or heath reach 0? Its realistic, have a penalty for neglecting your heath. With food, you lose 1 wellness every hour your hunger is 0, so a 150 (perfectly heathy) person being active could live without food for about 6 days before death. Without water for 3 days so 2 wellness loss per hour.
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JaxTeller718
New member
I love the wellness idea. It has been so long since wellness was able to drop below 70. I kind of miss the struggle to build it back up. Wellness is barely even an issue anymore since you can just buy the perk to safely stay above 120.I guess I'll live.
Just a couple thoughts to help reduce the OCD flare-ups in the forum:
-If you over eat, the overeaten amount is kept but not displayed. So food is not wasted. Is this already done?
-(new idea) Not being able to die until wellness or heath reach 0? Its realistic, have a penalty for neglecting your heath. With food, you lose 1 wellness every hour your hunger is 0, so a 150 (perfectly heathy) person being active could live without food for about 6 days before death. Without water for 3 days so 2 wellness loss per hour.
toores
New member
Ok, so i read all of the Rolands "rant" and 'm still not agreeing one bit. Not that i just disagree with him but rather they seem like bad arguments.
Some examples:
1. Screen cluttering - Small bars clutter screen, so remove health bar. Except there is no way to feel how hurt you are without a bar. Same goes to hunger. I would actually say that notifications at certain points (25,50,27%) are more clutter then hunger/thirst bar. Distracting popup at the time you didn't want it.
2. and 3. Just eat something to know and no damage until 0% - IRL i don't eat something to know whether i'm hungry. And what if i don't have anything to eat and i'm sick and all bunch of stuff (survival situation) it is vital for me t know what task is more urgent. Having hunger at 11% sometimes makes it more urgent then infection. So i HAVE TO look in the menu to know my priorities. (btw numbers are not important, seeing a hunger bar gives a rough estimation enough, no need to ridicule that someone needs to know exactly 78 or 79%)
4. missing the notification at 75% 50% 25% simulates ignoring signs of hunger - more likely simulates that i'm only able to perceive my stomach emptiness at certain fullness levels - every quarter. This is not true at all. IRL i know my fullness roughly every time i think about it, which inside a game would be the time i would look at the hunger bar.
5. Anxiety, excitement distracting from hunger - When i'm in a fight with a zombie horde i don't notice the hunger bar even when it's visual. Most of the time i don't notice it even when doing unexciting stuff. It's actually not "in my face" all the time.
And the personal example of not eating 3 days rather proves the need for the bar. You can do that in real life but not in a game, even after eating a full stag worth of meat.
6. Is the game better or worse for not having /an artificial extended info/? - this does not compare to basic intuitively known first hand info.
7. Again, artificial vs intuitive way of perceiving hunger. Mistakes will more likely be made because of bad design. Because believe me, even with visual bars you can forget to eat up before a long trip.
And "worrying" about a tiny minority who would get wellness up few minutes faster (eating at 99% rather then 50%) is just random... No difference in the long run.
Some things are even more prevalent with "feels like" temperature, because it can kill you even faster.
Every time i use "IRL" i know it's not simulator, i'm just saying some ways of doing things are more intuitive - less artificial.
Ok, i just got tired. And just by thinking about it and without any menus i know that i'm a little hungry. I'm gonna get a snack.
Cheers
and 'm still not agreeing one bit. Not that i just disagree with him but rather they seem like bad arguments.Some examples:
1. Screen cluttering - Small bars clutter screen, so remove health bar. Except there is no way to feel how hurt you are without a bar. Same goes to hunger. I would actually say that notifications at certain points (25,50,27%) are more clutter then hunger/thirst bar. Distracting popup at the time you didn't want it.
2. and 3. Just eat something to know and no damage until 0% - IRL i don't eat something to know whether i'm hungry. And what if i don't have anything to eat and i'm sick and all bunch of stuff (survival situation) it is vital for me t know what task is more urgent. Having hunger at 11% sometimes makes it more urgent then infection. So i HAVE TO look in the menu to know my priorities. (btw numbers are not important, seeing a hunger bar gives a rough estimation enough, no need to ridicule that someone needs to know exactly 78 or 79%)
4. missing the notification at 75% 50% 25% simulates ignoring signs of hunger - more likely simulates that i'm only able to perceive my stomach emptiness at certain fullness levels - every quarter. This is not true at all. IRL i know my fullness roughly every time i think about it, which inside a game would be the time i would look at the hunger bar.
5. Anxiety, excitement distracting from hunger - When i'm in a fight with a zombie horde i don't notice the hunger bar even when it's visual. Most of the time i don't notice it even when doing unexciting stuff. It's actually not "in my face" all the time.
And the personal example of not eating 3 days rather proves the need for the bar. You can do that in real life but not in a game, even after eating a full stag worth of meat.
6. Is the game better or worse for not having /an artificial extended info/? - this does not compare to basic intuitively known first hand info.
And "worrying" about a tiny minority who would get wellness up few minutes faster (eating at 99% rather then 50%) is just random... No difference in the long run.
Some things are even more prevalent with "feels like" temperature, because it can kill you even faster.
Every time i use "IRL" i know it's not simulator, i'm just saying some ways of doing things are more intuitive - less artificial.
Ok, i just got tired. And just by thinking about it and without any menus i know that i'm a little hungry. I'm gonna get a snack.
Cheers
Darkfoxx117
New member
This is a really good idea and one i can get behind.
Luzifer
New member
Can we please stop that Topic?
In the end its up to the decision of TFP what the Base Game will look like and all WE can, and in future will be able to do, is to make a mod Request for our desired Design of the Game and be Happy With that.
TFP has no reason to Change the games structure, only because people Have a hard time to multitask (keeping half an eye on the downleadt corner) or press 2 buttons (inventory).
So let it be as it is, be either happy with it or not.
Until the game goes gold, everything is subject to change anyways.
So chill people,
Please
In the end its up to the decision of TFP what the Base Game will look like and all WE can, and in future will be able to do, is to make a mod Request for our desired Design of the Game and be Happy With that.
TFP has no reason to Change the games structure, only because people Have a hard time to multitask (keeping half an eye on the downleadt corner) or press 2 buttons (inventory).
So let it be as it is, be either happy with it or not.
Until the game goes gold, everything is subject to change anyways.
So chill people,
Please
JaxTeller718
New member
I didn't quote you but bravo. Everything you said makes absolute sense.
But I DO have an experiment for you. Can you please, after you eat your snack, tell us how long it take you to die from hunger? I suspect it will take way more than one day.
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So you want people to stop giving their opinions in an EA game? That is still in development? Yes SIR!
Gazz
Fun Pimps Staff
To me it isn't about the exact % at all.
It's about having an always-on display and always in the same place. Not something that may or may not pop up whenever it decides to.
You're trying to explain to lefties that scissors work fine and they are simply using the wrong hand.
Technically the player doesn't NEED any bars on the main HUD. Just look at the character screen if you have a red screen overlay or are running slow... because likely you're almost dead or out of stamina.
Those damn gamers only want to beat the system by healing themselves before they are under 25% HP!
IMO, the XP bar is 100% useless on the main HUD. Using that space for a stat display without numbers or icons is apparently okay so instead use the same space for hunger / thirst bars in the same fashion. =)
Oh? Who are you again? =)
Different topic, but I'd really like to know if the devs have taken note of the mods zombie transmogrifier and crafting lag fixes. IIRC they said before that randomizing zombies just wasn't easily possible, but the transmogrifier proves otherwise. And I know the lag isn't as bad in vanilla, but implementing a little more mod-friendliness wouldn't go amiss.
JaxTeller718
New member
Very good question. The transmogrifier adds an amazing amount of variety. We love it, and crafting lag fixes is a life saver. All developed by our resident mad genius sphereii, also responsible for the Launcher!
Maharin
Well-known member
This is exactly the point I want to make. The HUD and associated data behind it is all I have to know the state of my character in game. Removing information that is critical to my survival is NOT realism. When I'm hungry I KNOW I'm hungry, no doubt, no evading it. If I'm too busy to eat I can delay eating for a while but I don't stop being hungry. When I reach the next "stage" of hunger it usually means I'm having to stop what I'm doing and eat anyway, regardless of the situation. In the real world I can take a bit of something and keep moving, in this game all I can do is consume something in its entirety. Point is that my hunger in the real world doesn't disappear behind a wall of "stop everything and check my vitals". And thirst is MUCH more noticeable.
So until this game has some way of linking me to my character directly, forcing me to stop everything to check the basics is very much bad design.
And to Roland's point earlier, good design is not the same as good engineering. A thing is well engineered when it does what it is supposed to do with little to no waste. Design is personal. A well designed house for one person may not work at all for someone else, which doesn't make the other person less intelligent. What seems to be well designed controls to me may confuse someone else or get in their way. A HUD isn't just aesthetics, it isn't just convenience, and it sure as hell isn't science.
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