PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Roland]

Gazz

If you want to cure people of the compulsion to constantly switch to the character screen to look at their hunger and thirst bars the best solution is to simple remove those also. Then there would be nothing to check and people would have to rely on the plethora of indicators the game already has for the journey from 100% fullness all the way down to 1% fullness until finally actual hunger sets in at 0%.

 

[KingSlayerGM]

There is never any reason to eat a single thing until your character is at 0%.

Actually there is.

Sometimes if I have plenty of food, I want to eat even when I am at 99%. So my wellness grows faster.

 

[ZedBullfrog]

Gazz
If you want to cure people of the compulsion to constantly switch to the character screen to look at their hunger and thirst bars the best solution is to simple remove those also. Then there would be nothing to check and people would have to rely on the plethora of indicators the game already has for the journey from 100% fullness all the way down to 1% fullness until finally actual hunger sets in at 0%.

I am pretty OCD about eating/drinking so I wouldn't mind relying on queues from my character that its time to nourish.

Does spamming food and goldenrod tea increase your wellness more quickly though?

 

[CptLaserPants]

@Roland But with that logic they might as well remove health from the HUD too since there are visual/audio cues and there's no actual penalty until you're at 0%. Get rid of many of the buffs too because irl those would be unnoticed in high stress situations. I know you've said that you would like to get rid of almost everything but that's a really extremist play style, and the logic you use already conflicts with the entire current layout. Considering what's already shown on HUD currently it only makes sense that something as simple as hunger and thirst were added too.

 

[Gazz]

@Roland But with that logic they might as well remove health from the HUD too since there are visual/audio cues and there's no actual penalty until you're at 0%. Get rid of many of the buffs too because irl those would be unnoticed in high stress situations.

Yeah, and stacks with a count >100 only show "lots" because you won't intuitively know if that's 4031 or 4183 wood. =)

 

[ZombieToad]

Mhh. Someone wants to get banned again.

Lols and what part of my post is banworthy thanks? The light hearted humour? The referal to another post I made complementing both Gazz and Roland and offering suggestions?

Could it be me pointing out that I am allowed to challenge opinions? Or perhaps clarifying the term 'incapable'?

Or is the myopic remark in which I state some users here are short sighted when it comes to reading my posts? Or is it that I am off topic?

Oh wait, that's right, my post was referring to the HUD which both myself, Gazz, Roland, even Stallion would have all been off topic then.

Please enlighten me.

And as a kind reminder, please see the video they uploaded recently, and the front page in which the experience bar is being visualised (implemented above the item bar) in the HUD. Just a thought incase you think I am being off topic ^^

@Roland - Yeah but what about mining all day. No stress in that, pretty safe, and you just forget the hunger and thirst.

Gazz's point I think was that opening the character screen is the only way to check outside the popups. If that's the case, everytime you open the screen that is the point at which the immersion is gone.

What would the real life counterpart of that be?

FIGHT FOR THE HUDTHE MODDER VS BASE GAME

Stallionsden vs zombietoad at the trader flagpole...3:00pm...thats 1500 hrs

Early enough so we don't get kicked out.

Canned goods and water and tea will be available for purchase.

Cash only please.

Bartering also accepted.

Please bring bandages.

General admission with standing room only.

Ouch

Lmfao

Just thinking, maybe for a real hardcore mode, offer the option to remove the hunger and thirst indicators from the character screen too. Now THAT would be immersion and closer to real life xD And it would float Rolands boat

 

[Guppycur]

Making even one wooden bow that can kill something takes a couple of days and that's IF you already know exactly what you are doing. Without prior knowledge, everyone's character would die from not know dozens of details on surviving, growing crops and hunting with a bow.
What is broken is trying to introduce reality into a game. The reality of survival is boring and tedious.

In your example of stone axes. Making a stone axe without prior knowledge how to chip one rock off another and what rocks work best is just having you make more bad axes.

I was playing around with a Proof of Concept mod Doombringer101 was making... basically, each thing you crafted had components, like pistols do, and I distinctively remember that the string on my stone axe would break after like 2 hits...

...now, some might thing that was frustrating, and it was, but it was also a blast! I had a zombie in the area and it took me about 45 minutes to actually kill it. And it was awesome. Nothing could be crafted while running either, so you were sitting there tying a string around a rock and stick just so you could ineptly bash it against a zombies head.

Shame fortnite took Doom from us, but he'll be back one day, and I hope to see that PoC come to life.

 

[Gazz]

If you don't like numbers/math, you should become a geologist, mate!

You still get to deal with mineralogy plus a whole bunch of chemistry. You're a useless geologist without that...

And with mineralogy I don't mean knowing which crystal is for happiness and which one for ED.

 

[Maharin]

how would drinking water after increasing a perk be any different to not having a perk and oh i am thirsty i need to drink so you drink til your thirst is quenched.
Or are you saying the perk is like better quality water like at level 2 the water is murky and possibly not good yet at level 50 the water is top quality.

or

at level 2 you drink and it fills a small amount of your thirst. at level 50 you take take a drink and it fuills completely. (this way dont make sense)

Your body "uses up" the water you consume at a much faster rate than the food you consume, which is why you need more water per day than you do food. Which is also why your body is designed to retain water and that helps make it so you don't feel thirsty all the time.

For the perk, I'd say it would be more like the difference between someone that lives in a humid climate versus the person that lives in a dry climate. In dry climates (hot or cold) your body learns to retain water and not be so wasteful (there are potential bad side effects to this but that mostly becomes a factor if the transition is quick). So you sweat less, recycle water in your body a little more, that sort of thing. The perk is like making your body think you're in that climate all the time so you don't need as much water coming into your body since it escapes from your body at a slower pace.

 

[Maharin]

Knowledge is the path and experience is the slope. Knowledge tells you that the town you want to visit is on the other side of the mountain. Experience tells you whether going over or going around is the best choice. Memorizing more stuff doesn't make you better at applying that knowledge.

- - - Updated - - -

You still get to deal with mineralogy plus a whole bunch of chemistry. You're a useless geologist without that...
And with mineralogy I don't mean knowing which crystal is for happiness and which one for ED.

Does eating dirt make you better at geology?

 

[The-Walking-Dad]

Should be an easy fix.

Could you explain how?

 

[ZedBullfrog]

Lols and what part of my post is banworthy thanks? The light hearted humour? The referal to another post I made complementing both Gazz and Roland and offering suggestions?
Could it be me pointing out that I am allowed to challenge opinions? Or perhaps clarifying the term 'incapable'?

Or is the myopic remark in which I state some users here are short sighted when it comes to reading my posts? Or is it that I am off topic?

Oh wait, that's right, my post was referring to the HUD which both myself, Gazz, Roland, even Stallion would have all been off topic then.

Please enlighten me.

And as a kind reminder, please see the video they uploaded recently, and the front page in which the experience bar is being visualised (implemented above the item bar) in the HUD. Just a thought incase you think I am being off topic ^^

@Roland - Yeah but what about mining all day. No stress in that, pretty safe, and you just forget the hunger and thirst.

Gazz's point I think was that opening the character screen is the only way to check outside the popups. If that's the case, everytime you open the screen that is the point at which the immersion is gone.

What would the real life counterpart of that be?

Lmfao

Just thinking, maybe for a real hardcore mode, offer the option to remove the hunger and thirst indicators from the character screen too. Now THAT would be immersion and closer to real life xD And it would float Rolands boat

You're a troll and your presence on this forum is toxic.

A. You are unaware of this, and generally not self aware.

B. You are aware of this and are trolling for fun.

 

[Jackelmyer]

At that topic i would simply like a different time/Date Instead of

i would like

I really hope we get the option to Randomize the Hordenights.

If this happens a Day to horde Bar would be problematic/senseless

All well and good Royal. I frankly want to avoid having to go to special measures to count past 10. Don't hate me. I use computers to think for me. Let them Math... I just wanna play.

 

[Stonx]

I cannot for the life of me understand why the developers opposition to giving paying customers the food and water bars that we keep asking for.

Saying that people can just mod them in is a bit silly because as soon as they do that you will not accept their bug reports as the game is not vanilla anymore. Plus it's a hassle. For something so simple and so popular just enable it via either -

1. A game setting option (so all players on a server have to this for fairness) or

2. An option in the options menu so that any player on any server can switch them on or off as and when they wish.

Don't try to think up tenuous excuses to avoid this - just do it. Anyone working in a tertiary industry needs to accept that "The customer is always right." It doesn't matter how you personally feel about this - you need to accept that expecting a modern first person game to have no hud info is an extreme, niche position.

The idea for A17 onwards is that food will smell again and become hazardous to be carrying about on loot runs. All we want is to glance at the bars before leaving base for said loot run to make sure we have enough sustenance to complete the task without needlessly endangering health/wellness.

Also, saying that once you are fully hungry you might only lose a couple of wellness points as if that is something trivial... Once your wellness is over 150 you will need to consume about 3 entire deer to get that couple of points back.

Plus the stupidly loud character cues regards food, water, temperature and exhaustion are something that many of us will try to avoid. Not just for our own sanity but because it can give your position away in PVP.

 

[chaosterone]

Does eating dirt make you better at geology?

Lol. Nope. But it lets you leave interesting specimens for geologists to examine.

As for HUD indicators to tell you if your hungry or thirsty. Why? I eat and drink before going on an adventure or mining. While I loot I eat or drink what I find and toss the rest (except for the first week before I have chests full of junk). Unless you're playing 25% loot, a drink or food are just a few game minutes away. This is just my perspective.

 

[ZedBullfrog]

I cannot for the life of me understand why the developers opposition to giving paying customers the food and water bars that we keep asking for.
Saying that people can just mod them in is a bit silly because as soon as they do that you will not accept their bug reports as the game is not vanilla anymore. Plus it's a hassle. For something so simple and so popular just enable it via either -

1. A game setting option (so all players on a server have to this for fairness) or

2. An option in the options menu so that any player on any server can switch them on or off as and when they wish.

Don't try to think up tenuous excuses to avoid this - just do it. Anyone working in a tertiary industry needs to accept that "The customer is always right." It doesn't matter how you personally feel about this - you need to accept that expecting a modern first person game to have no hud info is an extreme, niche position.

The idea for A17 onwards is that food will smell again and become hazardous to be carrying about on loot runs. All we want is to glance at the bars before leaving base for said loot run to make sure we have enough sustenance to complete the task without needlessly endangering health/wellness.

Also, saying that once you are fully hungry you might only lose a couple of wellness points as if that is something trivial... Once your wellness is over 150 you will need to consume about 3 entire deer to get that couple of points back.

Plus the stupidly loud character cues regards food, water, temperature and exhaustion are something that many of us will try to avoid. Not just for our own sanity but because it can give your position away in PVP.

There is currently functionality to show/hide the heads up display. So, if you wanted options to show/hide just parts of the display (like display the belt but not the health status) you would need at least a few more gameplay options. I'm personally not for this because I think the options menu is busy enough.

"The customer is always right" always has a ring of truth to it because it has been bandied about for a long time. But it assumes a couple things:

1. The customer knows what they want.

2. Their request is rational (not saying yours isn't rational)

3. It isn't the minority voice.

 

[sillls]

I'm truly sorry but I'm a little confused. Lol so please don't take this the wrong way because I might be missreading it. So sorry if I have.
It does tell you already. We already have something that pops up. When it starts getting low it pops up and goes away. When it gets what 30% it pops up and stays until you get it back up above 30%. While you eat/drink it pops up and shows what % you are at if it is above the 30% it goes away after a minute or something...... the same with temperature if you are between 31 and 89 you are good. If you go above or under those then it pops up and don't go away until you get back between them..... I do agree the sounds could use work and stuff but everything is already on screen just doesn't stay in your face 24/7.

Well yes you did. But that's ok. I was thinking more of them.

But anyways as I was stating before. Perhaps we could replace them with (more) sound cues. While they are already in the game. They don't come into play until the player is around 25% or 10%. I was thinking that sound cues could start at around more like 50%. Then become more frequent as it continues to drop.

 

[Kalex]

If I don't see the hunger/thirst bars on screen then I don't know whether I'm hungry or thirsty ingame. As a result I feel compelled to repeatedly open the character page to find out.So not having these bars on the main hud is less immersive.

But that's just me.

I agree. In real life, I always know to what degree I am hungry or thirsty. I hate having to flip to the character page all the time to check something my character should always be aware of.

 

[Aldranon]

Yeah, and stacks with a count >100 only show "lots" because you won't intuitively know if that's 4031 or 4183 wood. =)

I'm liking yours and cptLaser's comments.

It would be great as part of hardcore:

You don't know your exact heath, hunger, thirst, damage done, location, day ect...

Wow! scary and fun!

 

[Obuthan]

Many are commenting on specifics around IRL, game breaking, immersive, game necessities.

It has been said that seeing too much on the HUD is unwanted. While still needing to understand the current state of wellbeing at that moment in the game.

Many have argued that a mini map is required and that seems to be something that the Devs are going with. So why not remove the percentages and bars and place a color ring on the exterior of the mini map? It’s already there. The color can change according to your food/water needs. Maybe have a upper and lower color band (or a Yang and Yang symbol since it’s dealing with wellbeing. One side for food, one for water) to symbolize this. No percentages. Since you don’t go around saying “I’m 50% full now. Maybe that Apple will bring me to 62%?”

At a quick glance you get an over all impression of your body needs.

We are often looking up at the mini map anyway.

Just my 2 cents.