PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[graphite]

The point is the intention.All suggestions are welcome. But Suggestions only to offend other players i dont like too.

And the topic of "More Content/Challenges for underground" turns very fast in a "How to harass underground Dweller"

(Think this is Jannas point too)

But anyone reasonable in the discussion will quickly disregard opinions and views that all out destruction of underground bases to not be within scope of the topic requirements.

The intention can be altered on any topic and this is my major issue with it.

Is it really the case we stop debating and discussing because some people cant understand scope or limits.

Only ideas with substance that can be strengthened or weakened by debate can be the focus of topic and once all possibilties are exhausted then it is worthwhile data to be assessed.

 

[JaxTeller718]

There are almost 600 free block ids atm.

I have 159 more free blocks and Im full. Heavy modders will find a way to fill them up and with new blocks coming it looks like that space will be getting smaller.

Certainly wouldn't hurt creativity for complete world overhauls to have more. The modding possibilities are endless. Especially with SDX and being able to add all sorts of new pieces and textures to build with.

 

[JaxTeller718]

So what your saying if an idea or feature etc is suggested and someone doesnt like it then it should not be mentioned.
I dont understand the thinking that ideas or opinion without substance are actually regarded and taken into consideration by developers.

I dont like the attitude of a person or a group being silenced on non offensive gameplay topics because others do not like the subject matter.

The talk about digging zombies was about making them viable or non viable in all aspects including gameplay and difficulty.

It was mostly on how they could be countered and performance talk i was hoping it would also extend on how to undermine above ground player structures without all out destroying poi prefabs.

Is what your saying a blanket effect on such discussions and will be the same about bandits and other events that could compromise player structures ?

Maybe i have misunderstood what you have written please explain further.

I'm with you on this. I want undergound threats and not JUST in reference to diggers. I want what Roland wants. To be able to game underground and be presented with an entirely new and unique set of challenges. Imagine if the devs incorporated ideas from Subnautica or Stranded Deep and made a water game as well. Can you imagine the hours of replayability to have THREE fully functioning living breathing games with their own threats? Above Ground, Below Ground, Water. Would anyone immediately say they don't want to see any water threats? And if so why would you want to stifle game content in such a way.

WHY anyone would immediately want to limit that type of extension of gameplay is beyond me. Everyone always demands end game content. Perhaps underground living CAN BE end game content as it opens up a new world of horror and threats and survival and tactics.

In the end it is a very substantial and viable idea. When faced with "completely safe way to overcome game challenges" or "present challenging new ideas to push the layer to become even better and introduce new threats" the idea with MORE content will ALWAYS win much to the chagrin of those who wish to play a safe mans game.

 

[Odetta]

Minibike is still in. The coding for its physics was replaced with new coding. There are these vehicles that have been talked about for the game:
Bicycle (In for A17)

Minibike (In)

Motorcycle (In for A17)

Gyrocopter

4x4 Truck/Dunebuggy

The Gyrocopter has not yet been implemented so it's possible it could still go the way of the Behemoth.

The 4-wheeler is still in concept phase and so it hasn't been finalized what it will be or when it will be implemented. It could be a post gold update for all we know.

Please keep the Gyrocopter, if implemented right it would be far from OP and more of a quality of life thing. In real life they have a VERY limited fuel capacity and would only be good for a back and forth trip, like say to a supply drop or trader then back, where as a ground vehicle would be used for looting around a town with multiple stops and lots of extra storage, Gyro would have none. Gyros also have to take off like a plane so no quick escapes, staying in the air during horde night would be impossible (fuel) and when breadcrumbs are implemented; foolish as they would decimate your base anyway(if I understand correctly, if not then disregard this last part).

I'm not expecting it for this alpha, or even the next but please don't ax it. In my opinion it would add a lot more dimension and aliveness to the game, servers where people are on the ground, in the air, fighting in both and the stories they tell. Plus would change up the base design meta a little. :hat:

 

[JaxTeller718]

But anyone reasonable in the discussion will quickly disregard opinions and views that all out destruction of underground bases to not be within scope of the topic requirements.
The intention can be altered on any topic and this is my major issue with it.

Is it really the case we stop debating and discussing because some people cant understand scope or limits.

Only ideas with substance that can be strengthened or weakened by debate can be the focus of topic and once all possibilties are exhausted then it is worthwhile data to be assessed.

To add to your point if the devs had the mindset that they wanted people to live 100 percent safe from zero threats then I am sure they wouldn't have added things like Spider Zombies and 7 Day Blood Moons that turn feral. All evidence points to the team wanting to challenge their players.

 

[Jackelmyer]

I have 159 more free blocks and Im full. Heavy modders will find a way to fill them up and with new blocks coming it looks like that space will be getting smaller.
Certainly wouldn't hurt creativity for complete world overhauls to have more. The modding possibilities are endless. Especially with SDX and being able to add all sorts of new pieces and textures to build with.

Agreed. Vanilla game itself I'd imagine will eventually get squeezed as well for ID's in some of these files. I'm wondering if there's going to be either a breakout. i.e. weapons.xml from items.xml or decoblocks.xml from blocks.xml. Or if there's going to be a way for modded XML's to blend with vanilla XML's where block ID limits aren't involved.

I never fully understood the blockID limitation to begin with.

 

[graphite]

I have 159 more free blocks and Im full. Heavy modders will find a way to fill them up and with new blocks coming it looks like that space will be getting smaller.
Certainly wouldn't hurt creativity for complete world overhauls to have more. The modding possibilities are endless. Especially with SDX and being able to add all sorts of new pieces and textures to build with.

Can they get more blocks preloaded within hardware limitations and is it as easy as upping min ram requirements even though that could narrow the playerbase.

 

[Doombringer101]

Any updated news on the block shape selector tool?

 

[Royal Deluxe]

I never fully understood the blockID limitation to begin with.

Maybe a simple border drawn by the engine

 

[graphite]

Any updated news on the block shape selector tool?

Never heard of it does that hotchange the mesh shape of a block.

Interesting to think about if you could do that to and make those values mutable and free up ids where the only difference in blocks is the mesh shape.

But i suppose if the mesh and texture is shared with many other blocks then it wont really decrease mem overhead because that is where the resources are and not in text configs.

But i am more than likely wrong and i am just rambling on again.

 

[Doombringer101]

Never heard of it does that hotchange the mesh shape of a block.
Interesting to think about if you could do that to and make those values mutable and free up ids where the only difference in blocks is the mesh shape.

But i suppose if the mesh and texture is shared with many other blocks then it wont really decrease mem overhead because that is where the resources are and not in text configs.

But i am more than likely wrong and i am just rambling on again.

It was hinted that this could free up some block id's when it was first mentioned.

Essentially it was craft generic block then select the desired shape upon placement, similar to other games eg. Empyrion.

Texture savings were being addressed via altering/moving away from the atlas system by memory (was a while ago so I could be totally wrong here but I think that was the general gist of it).

 

[Jackelmyer]

Never heard of it does that hotchange the mesh shape of a block.
Interesting to think about if you could do that to and make those values mutable and free up ids where the only difference in blocks is the mesh shape.

But i suppose if the mesh and texture is shared with many other blocks then it wont really decrease mem overhead because that is where the resources are and not in text configs.

But i am more than likely wrong and i am just rambling on again.

I think he's referring to something MM demoed while A16 was in core development. Where you hold down E while over a Wooden Frame for example and it gives you a screen to choose what kind of wooden frame. So you didn't have to build anything other than wood frames any more for wood frame based building. i.e. you don't have to build wooden frames and build wooden ramps. Just wooden frames and the block selector let you choose a block wooden frame or a ramp wooden frame when you held down E.

 

[Janna3921]

@graphite, no, it was the irritation of the discussion going from how could digger zombies be created to the attitude of we will force those who like underground bases out come h*e*l*l or high-water remarks. It went from the a interesting topic to a "we are going to force you to get out and fight the zombies or die if you don't". What was a lousy joke was stated in earlier posts as a serious attitude of underground dwellers should be punished for choosing to stay underground.

It can be discussed till the game goes gold about the good and bad of diggers, but the remarks of "for those who want to have a base underground, it shouldn't be allowed, there needs to be a way to destroy it", is what I got tired of reading.

Those who have bases with a kill zone will be behind some type of bars, with blade traps, electric fences, darts, spikes and more and then go with we are out there fighting zombies. No, you are behind bars and if you do, that is your choice and more power to you, I'm not putting you down, stating shame on you, you should be made to stay inside a base that is five block thick, with a moat and a multitude of traps and weapons to be safe. I go if that is how you want to play, have fun and good luck.

If I want a underground base where I can do my busy work, making steel, forged iron, tools and weapons in the safety of a underground base that should not be a problem. If I chose to make a home there, bedroom, bathroom, nice rec room with even a small pool in it and stay there on horde night it isn't hurting you any. If I chose to have that and create a kill zone and decide if I want to fight zombies or not on any night, horde night or regular night, that should be my choice.

I think that if a lot of players want diggers that can destroy a underground base, then mod it in for yourself or see if it can be made as a option, it can be toggled on or off depending on how a player wants to play.

@unholyjoe and others on feedback on what it means for code graveyard, thanks bunches, learned something else in computer programing, lingo

 

[Doombringer101]

I think he's referring to something MM demoed while A16 was in core development. Where you hold down E while over a Wooden Frame for example and it gives you a screen to choose what kind of wooden frame. So you didn't have to build anything other than wood frames any more for wood frame based building. i.e. you don't have to build wooden frames and build wooden ramps. Just wooden frames and the block selector let you choose a block wooden frame or a ramp wooden frame when you held down E.

Yep this, mentioned in a video or in a forum post, I want to say video but am unsure.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Yep this, mentioned in a video or in a forum post, I want to say video but am unsure.

Yeah it was in a few of his YouTube videos.

And I should clarify...

Hold down E while a wood frame was selected on your tool belt and you were holding it to be placed. That brought up an extra window to choose what kind of wood frame block to place.

 

[stallionsden]

I'm with you on this. I want undergound threats and not JUST in reference to diggers. I want what Roland wants. To be able to game underground and be presented with an entirely new and unique set of challenges. Imagine if the devs incorporated ideas from Subnautica or Stranded Deep and made a water game as well. Can you imagine the hours of replayability to have THREE fully functioning living breathing games with their own threats? Above Ground, Below Ground, Water. Would anyone immediately say they don't want to see any water threats? And if so why would you want to stifle game content in such a way.
WHY anyone would immediately want to limit that type of extension of gameplay is beyond me. Everyone always demands end game content. Perhaps underground living CAN BE end game content as it opens up a new world of horror and threats and survival and tactics.

In the end it is a very substantial and viable idea. When faced with "completely safe way to overcome game challenges" or "present challenging new ideas to push the layer to become even better and introduce new threats" the idea with MORE content will ALWAYS win much to the chagrin of those who wish to play a safe mans game.

Sharknado.. Crocnado lol. They def need to add either both or either to the water areas. Like starvation had. Crocs they were vicious.

Heck add starvation spiders to the underground. Those things were deadly. Tho allow them to make burrow and make tunnels that don't collapse. You build a base underground and you have a chance of disturbing these radiated beasts and they attack your base and you.

I much rather the spiders then diggers least there be a reasonable reason they are underground and the tunnels that don't collapse (ignore si if you will so as to not cause holes and mayhem above).

PS: you forgot air threats lol... And now according to Gazz space threats Aliens are coming Aliens are coming :-D

 

[graphite]

It was hinted that this could free up some block id's when it was first mentioned.Essentially it was craft generic block then select the desired shape upon placement, similar to other games eg. Empyrion.

Texture savings were being addressed via altering/moving away from the atlas system by memory (was a while ago so I could be totally wrong here but I think that was the general gist of it).

I am just rambling again

Suppose the limit is is also down to how everything (blocks & entities) in a chunk is identfied and making that value as small and efficient to parse as possible.

 

[graphite]

@Stallionsden Space threats no i think you misunderstand ,some of the humans escaped onto a space station safehaven and the endgame is for the suvivor to build a space rocket to be able to join them that is why we need to know SI of a spaceship because we are going to build one.

SI for independent objects must be on the cards ie planes, ships, spaceships, and submarines.

 

[Jackelmyer]

I much rather the spiders then diggers least there be a reasonable reason they are underground and the tunnels that don't collapse (ignore si if you will so as to not cause holes and mayhem above).

Spiders, giant centipedes, giant roaches, big ol rats, scorpions, bats, baby seals...

There's loads of traditional "i'm gonna get you sucka!" mobs to put in a subterranean world. With the occasional cave that leads to the surface where there's an abandoned cave settlement (or overrun settlement).

Don't think we need the digging. Just more stuff underground to run into and go "HOLY CRAP!".

Which then gives you more ugly stuff to pull items from for more recipes. win win!

- - - Updated - - -

@Stallionsden Space threats no i think you misunderstand ,some of the humans escaped onto a space station safehaven and the endgame is for the suvivor to build a space rocket to be able to join them that is why we need to know SI of a spaceship because we are going to build one.
SI for independent objects must be on the cards ie planes, ships, spaceships, and submarines.

Man I hope 7D2D ends up in a semi sci-fi tech era for something like this. Not that this specifically would happen, but it opens up a ton of reality bending options.

 

[graphite]

@Janna3921

I understand what you have written and the counter i would have for underground dwelling is until zombies actually follow a ramp down to a base to bedrock that:

A: You can get your vehicle up and down to

B: Funnel zombies at night or whenever thay attack

That digger zombies are not implemented and if they are there spawn is limited and above ground spawners are bias to that.