PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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The question is how to defend themWill we get a Laser Drill with Xray ability ?
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I think X-Rays and Lasers wouldn't work in meters thick rock.^^ Not sure if there's a way to fight the digging zombies.

 
The foundation idea is dependant on the understanding that it can only be a 1-block height slab and no other foundation block can be placed above or below another foundation block from bedrock to sky. It’s SI is calculated down to bedrock and if there are tunnels below that won’t matter because it is only 1 block high. Who has ever worried about SI when building a flat slab of cement on the ground? It’s usually once you get higher up in your construction that issues occur. Everything above the foundation would calculate down to the foundation. Anything that overhangs the foundation would calculate down to bedrock. If pieces of your foundation got destroyed then the blocks above those places would calculate back down to bedrock.

The foundation stones themselves wouldn’t be special or particularly extra durable or zombie proof. They would simply mask the regular SI calculation down to bedrock wherever they existed.

We could make it so they could only be placed within a friendly LCB zone to limit it for base building.

So someone could use foundation blocks as a ceiling (for a basement) but it wouldn’t grant any special protection as a ceiling. It would simply mean your basement wouldn’t affect the SI of your structure above it.

Someone could build three stories and then place a foundation to make it so their 4th and up stories get an SI reset but so what? Their first three stories are calculated to bedrock and could be subject to collapse and that would not make the top stories suddenly float (any more than they already do)because the foundation blocks themselves would also be subject to gravity and SI down to bedrock.

 
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So the foundation block needs to have a solid pillar to bedrock in order for it to be stable? Do adjacent foundation blocks just have super high stability glue so they stick horizontally to the other foundation blocks?

 
So the foundation block needs to have a solid pillar to bedrock in order for it to be stable? Do adjacent foundation blocks just have super high stability glue so they stick horizontally to the other foundation blocks?
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They could have the exact same SI stats as reinforced concrete. If you can only build one foundation in a vertical shaft from bedrock to sky and that foundation can only be one block high and only built within an LCB zone then it doesn’t have to have any other special property than to reset SI calculations above it.

If you are placing them flat on the ground as intended then pillars to bedrock are probably overkill but maybe a nice insurance policy. If you are placing them on stilts then those stilts better go down to bedrock or you may have foundation stone blocks not sticking to each other properly as you place them as per regular SI rules. But once placed they reset SI above themselves.

 
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The only exploit I can think of for this is someone placing their “foundation” higher up in their tower but that would also leave the lower levels vulnerable to any new excavations made below the base.

If someone is doing it in creative just to try and build something impossible under current SI rules...so what? Let them be creative and have their fun and post their screenshots.

If TFP replaces all the current foundations of prefabs with this then they could have all sorts of cave systems and it wouldn’t affect the buildings on the surface at all. They could even allow Navezgane to have caves for exploration.

Come rip it to shreds Gazz... :)

 
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Oh I also mean to thank all of the forum people here, your silliness completes my own!
And yes, I think many would look to function over form. But as I mentioned earlier. I find, even for my story and my own little way, its the little things that separate me from the dead. Apart from a pulse that is. Funny, though, having said that. It would be awesome to beat a herd to death with either a handbag ( not that you mention them) or a shoe to be riveting.
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i'm all for the brick in the handbag trick.

 
Regarding foundation slab

Still unsure of the scope of who is going to benefit.

Players who build over cave poi's.

Stop above ground structures collapsing when attacking players underground installations.

At the momment SI bedrock slab is static.

Dynamic slab that needs SI calculating for multiple player placements at any coordinates on the map.

Would the LCB limit size so there is a limit to base size.

I am thinking ultimately there will be restrictions on having multiple SI systems in place and this would be dependent on hardware peformance and amount of players and then maybe servers rules restrict amount of bases and size of them.

Sorry to be negative but i wanted to test your granite for any fractures before i build my base on it.

 
Forget granite. That was a first stab. There is no new SI system or even multiple SI systems. The nice thing about this is that no new SI system has to be made. The blocks simply mask bedrock below themselves and appear to be bedrock to all blocks above them for SI purposes. In the absence of a block there is no mask.

In other words when the game looks for an unbroken chain down to bedrock when you go to place a block it stops at a foundation stone if it is there or continues on down to actual bedrock if there is no foundation stone. But the SI system itself is always the same.

I personally don’t think an LCB is necessary but I’m a trusting non-exploiter. Plus you could always just build your base without a foundation just like now and the rules would operate just like now. There might be a limit on bases with foundations until you added more LCBs to be able to extend the foundation but no limit for those who didn’t care or want a foundation.

 
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Forget granite. That was a first stab. There is no new SI system or even multiple SI systems. The nice thing about this is that no new SI system has to be made. The blocks simply mask bedrock below themselves and appear to be bedrock to all blocks above them for SI purposes. In the absence of a block there is no mask.
In other words when the game looks for an unbroken chain down to bedrock when you go to place a block it stops at a foundation stone if it is there or continues on down to actual bedrock if there is no foundation stone. But the SI system itself is always the same.

I personally don’t think an LCB is necessary but I’m a trusting non-exploiter. Plus you could always just build your base without a foundation just like now and the rules would operate just like now. There might be a limit on bases with foundations until you added more LCBs to be able to extend the foundation but no limit for those who didn’t care or want a foundation.
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I dont know how it works but say 1 chunk is 256 m² and you calculate SI on that chunk from bedrock then you hit a foundation block and this also calculates SI from its origin.

1 or 2 systems ?

If it did work this way you could argue every m² is its own system but we know systems can join on multi faces and stack max load.

But my point is bedrock origin is fixed on a singular plane so i am guessing it would need more coordinate data to store in the chunk to have a foundation block.

I could be wrong because i am kinda bonkers but it seems like muliple systems and every foundation slab will be its own system.

Hopefully one of the Devs will smash your idea and my hypothesis to splinters or at least give us some insight in why it will or wont work. :smile-new:

 
It depends I guess in whether SI is calculated from the bottom up or the top down. If you are 50m above the ground and trying to place a block but it keeps sliding off is it because when you go to place it the game is calculating SI by going down until it hits bedrock looking for any gaps? If so then it is one system because the game just looks down until it stops.

But if the game calculates it from bedrock up to the place you are trying to attach your block then it would be multiple systems because of multiple planes of starting places among all the various buildings in the world.

My guess is that it looks top to botttom and so the foundation blocks won’t matter a bit. It’s just an endpoint for the calculation.

The nice thing is that as a builder you can look to see and understand exactly why that block isn’t sticking and devise a way to add needed support because you only have to assess as far as your foundation.

 
Ok. So here's a Madmole/Roland question.
What level of technology is 7 Days going to stay at? I mean, there's no real story outside of the Duke right? We could be sitting in a world with robotics but they've just not been implemented.

So... Yeah. Where we at? I'd love some steam punk robotics assembly line stuff to do what is being suggested here.

Conveyor belt connected to a dump box to just puke our loot into. Robotic arms to take generic bags of the stiff off to drop into a wall of crates designated as weapon boxes, food, liquid, etc.

But yeah. What tech level is 7D2D gonna get to?
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That sounds a bit more Factorio but it would also work for me. So long as the function is there. Or if they'd make it easier for modders to add such things. Either way.

 
Nah, but you have enough concern to make up for my complete lack of it ;) So it equals out nicely :)

Hopefully the Pimps give us the chance to test it.
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Unfortunately if they do I fear it won't last very long. Just reading all these comments proves one thing. If added I give it two days of a non stop avalanche of negative comments over it before it is changed back. I love the idea and have wanted it for so long but the resident cellar dwellers are already prepared to hate it so like some of the other tougher changes (initial wood and rock nerf, rare benches and traders, initial stamina change) I fear this change is already doomed before it is implemented.

 
It depends I guess in whether SI is calculated from the bottom up or the top down. If you are 50m above the ground and trying to place a block but it keeps sliding off is it because when you go to place it the game is calculating SI by going down until it hits bedrock looking for any gaps? If so then it is one system because the game just looks down until it stops.
But if the game calculates it from bedrock up to the place you are trying to attach your block then it would be multiple systems because of multiple planes of starting places among all the various buildings in the world.

My guess is that it looks top to botttom and so the foundation blocks won’t matter a bit. It’s just an endpoint for the calculation.

The nice thing is that as a builder you can look to see and understand exactly why that block isn’t sticking and devise a way to add needed support because you only have to assess as far as your foundation.
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Interesting to think about what you hit when you reach the sky is it a volume mesh that entities and blocks collide with or is it another block.

There are some clues but nothing to make a solid assumption.

I am guessing as usually when you build a map in an engine like unity you have some bottom slab which we know is made out of Mbedrock so for simplicity it would be a 1m cubed block out of Mbedrock.

Server config gives 1 chunk at 256m squared but not sure how many blocks you can build to sky from bedrock is it 255 ?

 
The foundation idea is dependant on the understanding that it can only be a 1-block height slab and no other foundation block can be placed above or below another foundation block from bedrock to sky. It’s SI is calculated down to bedrock and if there are tunnels below that won’t matter because it is only 1 block high. Who has ever worried about SI when building a flat slab of cement on the ground? It’s usually once you get higher up in your construction that issues occur. Everything above the foundation would calculate down to the foundation. Anything that overhangs the foundation would calculate down to bedrock. If pieces of your foundation got destroyed then the blocks above those places would calculate back down to bedrock.
The foundation stones themselves wouldn’t be special or particularly extra durable or zombie proof. They would simply mask the regular SI calculation down to bedrock wherever they existed.

We could make it so they could only be placed within a friendly LCB zone to limit it for base building.

So someone could use foundation blocks as a ceiling (for a basement) but it wouldn’t grant any special protection as a ceiling. It would simply mean your basement wouldn’t affect the SI of your structure above it.

Someone could build three stories and then place a foundation to make it so their 4th and up stories get an SI reset but so what? Their first three stories are calculated to bedrock and could be subject to collapse and that would not make the top stories suddenly float (any more than they already do)because the foundation blocks themselves would also be subject to gravity and SI down to bedrock.
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You had mentioned at one point that the foundation block itself was incredibly heavy. Is that still a part of the design?

I can see how this can benefit caves and caverns. I'm always worried about blocks that can be placed by players doing "magic". That's usually breeding grounds for exploiting a system.

But this doesn't IMO fix a changing underground landscape if zombies are digging.

 
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That sounds a bit more Factorio but it would also work for me. So long as the function is there. Or if they'd make it easier for modders to add such things. Either way.
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Yeah factorio is WAY beyond what I was thinking lol. I was still thinking in line with Minecraft hopper/sorters. But a bit more realistic/steam punkish.

 
Roland i just reread what i wrote and i have described the most complex systems of systems when i have no idea what i am talking about

I dont see the difference between top down or bottom up though regards systems.

I edited this becuase i misunderstood and what i thought was you being funny and you where not.

I apoligise for my rudeness it was a total misunderstanding.

 
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