PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[graphite]

Its interesting the point Crater Creator has bought up with the zombie not being an actual visual collidable entity until you can sense them or they begin to change the world.

I didnt like this and i could not work out why i did not and my thinking seemed illogical because the zombie is digging you cannot see it and the terrain is being replaced.

Main problem i can see is is calculating when you have sensed a zombie i would think the first thing was you could hear them but that sound event would need to be added to the zombie before its entity can collide.

So this will come down to a block distance in reality that a zombie can spawn near you which defeats the object to some degree of a dynamic non colliding entity.

You might as well not do the calculations and have a set distance zombies can spawn from.

Would this give players an advantage once this distance was discovered i dont know but if it did you would have to extend the distance and randomise it and we are back to chunk 1.

 

[Jackelmyer]

The current SI has no concept of being too heavy to rest on something...

Yeah I does. It's why the fifth wood frame you attach to an unsupported block falls. How walking on a block at it's limit knows to collapse.

Maybe it's just the way your sentence is worded that throws me. But things being too heavy to sit on each other is basically the SI system.

Though I don't understand the function of a foundation at this point in the discussion as I think the design of it may have gotten a little out of hand...

 

[NoWaNing]

I hope the sleepers and zombies get some overhaul. Game has just gotten to easy even from the beginning.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Reason to avoid the granite solution: any amount of granite allows for unreachable bases floating in air.

The original pitch for granite, sure. But where I went to with a suggestion, not at all. Because where I went to, granite itself has the same SI behavior as stone. With the only difference, anything resting on top of it is considered supported as though supported by bedrock.

The sides of the granite block have to be supported by this definition. Or it collapses.

At that point, the only real issues is caverns and caves can't be huge. So if you want, you can increase the load bearing potential of the granite block, but that doesn't mean you get floating bases. As the granite block itself, first and foremost, must be connected to a supported block or a block with enough load bearing capacity to hold it.

 

[Jackelmyer]

They could spawn in any faraway branch tunnels. So they couldn't reach the player without digging through the whole map. There's no algorithm that can avoid this. Either the digging zombies are ineffective or they destroy the half map.

My problem with a zombie spawning outside my base underground is that if they're not coming through a tunnel, and they dig right up to my forge room wall, I've got no way to defend my base. I have to wait for a breach of my base to even fight the Zombies.

Counter? Dig a GIANT air pocket around the forge room and trap/turret all exposed sides (five sides if I'm on bedrock, 6 if not on bedrock).

Seems really annoying and prone to simply making a sink hole to the surface.

 

[Pille]

@Crater Creator

I came to the conclusion that this question is essential for further discussions...:

Btw. how do you define outside and inside (regarding the term 'base')?

Atm the discussion is a bit pointless since we don't have a common basis.

 

[TSBX]

Yeah I does. It's why the fifth wood frame you attach to an unsupported block falls. How walking on a block at it's limit knows to collapse.
Maybe it's just the way your sentence is worded that throws me. But things being too heavy to sit on each other is basically the SI system.

Though I don't understand the function of a foundation at this point in the discussion as I think the design of it may have gotten a little out of hand...

I could be wrong, but I think CC means that there is no SI for a steel block being too heavy for a wood frame underneath it, causing collapse.

 

[Jackelmyer]

If it only checks SI one block below then it can float with one block of stone attached.
- - - Updated - - -

Not the code, the design of being able to mod each part of the weapon. It was a good idea, use that as a base perhaps.

Who said Granite only checks one block below? Have it behave just like any other block. If not supported itself, calculate it's SI. But the block sitting on top of the granite block? That one is considered stable because it's sitting on the Granite.

So the granite block is just as prone to collapse as anything else. So no, you can't have a floating base.

- - - Updated - - -

Before we raise the complexity of the topic further i would like to reduce it to the coreWe have here 2 different problems at the topic of Basebuilding

1: SI The Si need Stable underground or better said pillars able to hold the whole base

Easy solvable by Pillars from Bedrock to Surfacelevel

2: Spawn. The spawner need to be able to spawn Zombies outside of a secured area.

Means player compounds cant be larger than around 60x60 Meters (i Choose 53x53 for my Prefabs)

Or Zombies cant spawn on the other Side of the Base Area OUTSIDE of the area.

Because the Max Spawnrange would be inside of the "Wall".

Point one is easy to solve by a (Multiblock) Drill block that is fueled with Gas and Concrete and Build automatic such a Pillar

Example:

This way even noobs can build a Foundation

Point Two need to be reflected ingame, as example by a Claimstone with that measures.

Btw 53x53 looks so

The topic of Threads against underground should base on that both points

I would say that drill is incredibly OP. And self repairing.... Uh.

What's to stop me from building a tower then setting these at the top to make a border around my base?

 

[Jackelmyer]

I hope the sleepers and zombies get some overhaul. Game has just gotten to easy even from the beginning.

I kinda want to see home/house POI's have a chance to include a Zombie dog in their spawn. So sure, sleepers might be easy. But eeeevery now and then, the families guard dog stuck with them to the end... Plus!

 

[Royal Deluxe]

I would say that drill is incredibly OP. And self repairing.... Uh.

What's to stop me from building a tower then setting these at the top to make a border around my base?

Self repairing is nothing i said ^^

About the tower,

1: i wouldnt care

2: the drill can be slower than a player with tools. And the drill can be expensive enough so that no player can spam them

 

[Jackelmyer]

I could be wrong, but I think CC means that there is no SI for a steel block being too heavy for a wood frame underneath it, causing collapse.

But... There is.

SI is calculated from all sides of a block, including the top. That's why, for example, if you have a supported column to bedrock, stick one block to the side of that column, new block is now unsupported, then stack blocks on top of that one unsupported block, they'll eventually collapse.

 

[Pille]

My problem with a zombie spawning outside my base underground is that if they're not coming through a tunnel, and they dig right up to my forge room wall, I've got no way to defend my base. I have to wait for a breach of my base to even fight the Zombies.
Counter? Dig a GIANT air pocket around the forge room and trap/turret all exposed sides (five sides if I'm on bedrock, 6 if not on bedrock).

Seems really annoying and prone to simply making a sink hole to the surface.

I agree with you.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Self repairing is nothing i said ^^
About the tower,

1: i wouldnt care

2: the drill can be slower than a player with tools. And the drill can be expensive enough so that no player can spam them

Oops! Morning eyeballs. Haven't even finished my first cup of coffee.

I wouldn't bother with the slow bit or the large model. Just a single 1x1 block that's, yeah, really expensive. But only to make reinforced concrete. Otherwise it'll end up so expensive, people just won't bother with it for the most part.

 

[TSBX]

But... There is.
SI is calculated from all sides of a block, including the top. That's why, for example, if you have a supported column to bedrock, stick one block to the side of that column, new block is now unsupported, then stack blocks on top of that one unsupported block, they'll eventually collapse.

Yes, if you put a block to the side it will do that, but you can have a 1x1 tower from bedrock to 254 of steel blocks, and it would not collapse the 1 wood frame directly underneath.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

The big benefit of such a drill would be that you dont fall into death if you dig down into a cave.

A other alternative would be a Rope system that if you should fall would hold you (move you slow downwards)

 

[graphite]

I agree with you.

I will be honest my first thoughts that digging from the surface seems a better idea.

But if special zombies dug down then this would trigger underground spawning and the AI converged on the vertical digger zombies shaft then this would make less swiss cheese but have more player detection.

Problem is what happens if player leaves the underground once this has been triggered.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Yes, if you put a block to the side it will do that, but you can have a 1x1 tower from bedrock to 254 of steel blocks, and it would not collapse the 1 wood frame directly underneath.

So?

Thats not a floating base, nor an issue with any suggestions made thus far to support more underground game play options.

Sorry, and that is simply SI. That doesn't mean. That there's no mechanics for a block being too heavy for another block on top of it.

The block to the side and stacked on top is a mechanic for determining if a block is too heavy on top.

 

[Jackelmyer]

I will be honest my first thoughts that digging from the surface seems a better idea.
But if special zombies dug down then this would trigger underground spawning and the AI converged on the vertical digger zombies shaft then this would make less swiss cheese but have more player detection.

Problem is what happens if player leaves the underground once this has been triggered.

That has been my biggest problem. Half the time I don't even know a wandering horde is near by until it's darn near on top of me.

 

[Ouch Quit It]

Agreed...but also breachers and diggers...let them only dig down 10 blocks deep at a time...next time another 10 etc. Set a depth ...if persons finds them then it's up to them to fill the holes. Then SI can take over. Something to that effect.

OUCH

MTFGA...COUGHS* VIDEO *COUGHS

 

[Jackelmyer]

Agreed...but also breachers and diggers...let them only dig down 10 blocks deep at a time...next time another 10 etc.
OUCH

MTFGA...COUGHS* VIDEO *COUGHS

The vertical dig can go on however. It's the horizontal digging that causes issues. If you're underground, working in your forge room, zombies start digging down, you've got no idea. You head back up top side, now they're half way down to your underground base. You're still clueless. You're upgrading blocks on your base all carefree. Until it starts to collapse because those zombies, now start digging sideways and up to get to you make big holes under your base.