PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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Yes and no. It depends on how close to the surface the air pockets are but for gameplay purposes all tunnels could be ignored until a large enough excavation close enough to the surface could cause a collapse.
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Hmm... I think you may have hit on something pretty profound here.

Conceptually, a big hole right under a base is going to cause problems, but the same sized hole a kilometer deeper isn't as big of a deal. So I'm wondering if, instead of a new type of block with different properties, SI could pay progressively less attention to blocks the farther below they are from the block in question. I'm still thinking about the math, but the first spitball would be, like, the SI calculation for block (x,y,z) terminates down at block (x,y,z-20) instead of down at block (x,y,[bedrock]). If you get down to (x,y,z-20) and SI still holds up, that's good enough. It's similar to your granite & foundation ideas, but applied as a relative offset each time SI is calculated instead of at absolute values where special blocks exist.

I'm not defining this very rigorously, and someone will probably point out it again allows floating castles, but I think there's something here...

 
Hm, well it might mostly be an issue when playing with friends sharing the same chunk.
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That's... actually a pretty valid point. Especially important for earlier game play when you can't make defenses that can blast away a wandering horde or screamer spawns before they completely wreck your base.
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You could have a talk with these so-called friends about why they're blithely letting the nearby zombies eat your base. :)

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Yeah, i'm not saying halt the discussion. Not at all. Just wondering if he's thought of some reasons to avoid the granite solution or variations using the granite solution.
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Reason to avoid the granite solution: any amount of granite allows for unreachable bases floating in air.

 
If the opening is outside of the loaded chunks, then there is no opening within the calculable volume. So the algorithm returns that there is no opening, considers the loaded subset of your whole assembly as a closed structure, and spawns the zombies just outside the walls of the tunnel or other connected part of your base, outside of the player's audible range.
As for how loud the zombie is while digging, all I'm saying is TFP could decide this hypothetical zombie digs in total silence, and we'd have no grounds on which to say they're wrong.
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They could spawn in any faraway branch tunnels. So they couldn't reach the player without digging through the whole map. There's no algorithm that can avoid this. Either the digging zombies are ineffective or they destroy the half map.

 
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They could spawn in any faraway branch tunnels. So they couldn't reach the player without digging through the whole map. There's no algorithm that can avoid this. Either the digging zombies are ineffective or they destroy the half map.
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I'm not sure I'm following you anymore. No matter what you build, it's surrounded by air and/or terrain. There is always a spot outside of your building for a zombie to spawn.

It's like your base is inside a giant pincushion representing the extent of the game world. Pins are pushed in from different arbitrary angles, starting from the surface of the pincushion and extending inwards until they hit some block you placed. At the tip of each pin is one of these hypothetical zombies that can dig and fill in after itself.

What we're talking about here is that the zombie doesn't have to exist as soon as they penetrate the pincushion. They only have to exist by the time A) You can sense them; or B) They'll begin to change the world. Since they dig and fill in after themselves, they don't change the world until they hit a player block. Therefore, the game can 'cut to the chase' and spawn them when they would theoretically reach a point where you can sense them (A), or right at the first player block they would theoretically encounter (B).

Sure, you can place player blocks at far flung locations, and some zombies would then theoretically have to spawn pretty far out. But you would only catch all of them by enclosing yourself on all sides, and the resource cost of doing that goes up with the square of distance, the same as with any base building. Whether it's a fully enclosed base or a base with long branching tunnels or an M.C. Escher drawing brought to life doesn't really matter: the digging zombies would be as effective as needed for balance, and they'd only destroy parts of the map the player had modified.

 
Reason to avoid the granite solution: any amount of granite allows for unreachable bases floating in air.
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I'll post the answer I gave you a few pages previously again as you seem to have missed it:

If this is the problem with granite, then it isn't a problem. If granite resets SI calculation for anything above it but not for itself then it still needs dirt or stone below it. In other words it will not float.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here.

 
I'm not sure I'm following you anymore. No matter what you build, it's surrounded by air and/or terrain. There is always a spot outside of your building for a zombie to spawn.
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Ok, I am going to start another attempt to explain my point of view (but later)... :) Btw. how do you define outside and inside (regarding the term 'base')?

 
I'll post the answer I gave you a few pages previously again as you seem to have missed it:
If this is the problem with granite, then it isn't a problem. If granite resets SI calculation for anything above it but not for itself then it still needs dirt or stone below it. In other words it will not float.

Please correct me if I'm wrong here.
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If it only checks SI one block below then it can float with one block of stone attached.

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I didnt follow FO4 development so I dunno how they handled the confusion issue.
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Not the code, the design of being able to mod each part of the weapon. It was a good idea, use that as a base perhaps.

 
Before we raise the complexity of the topic further i would like to reduce it to the core

We have here 2 different problems at the topic of Basebuilding

1: SI The Si need Stable underground or better said pillars able to hold the whole base

Easy solvable by Pillars from Bedrock to Surfacelevel

2: Spawn. The spawner need to be able to spawn Zombies outside of a secured area.

Means player compounds cant be larger than around 60x60 Meters (i Choose 53x53 for my Prefabs)

Or Zombies cant spawn on the other Side of the Base Area OUTSIDE of the area.

Because the Max Spawnrange would be inside of the "Wall".

Point one is easy to solve by a (Multiblock) Drill block that is fueled with Gas and Concrete and Build automatic such a Pillar

Example:

35BE59B6182F9EAFC6835787AD660F531891557C


This way even noobs can build a Foundation

Point Two need to be reflected ingame, as example by a Claimstone with that measures.

Btw 53x53 looks so

1CABE6FA0D0C362DC01FF680B96F02CC8C419050


The topic of Threads against underground should base on that both points

 
Yes. Agreed. In addition, "Let's make surface dwelling more enjoyable" and "let's make underground dwelling challenging" are not for the purpose of coaxing or driving people to the surface. That isn't the point at all.
We want the underground to be an interesting, fulfilling, engaging, and challenging place to play the game. I don't want to drive anyone out. I want to go in and still be able to enjoy the game.
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So, how to TFP's feel about all of this?

 
I thought that Madmole was going to put out a video this weekend about the new bike and other things. Is that still happening?

 
I thought that Madmole was going to put out a video this weekend about the new bike and other things. Is that still happening?
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The weekend is not over yet :) So my guess is yeah. When? Dunno.

Cheers

 
The assembly system isn't going away.Only the parts are supposed to become useful and interesting instead of every pistol receiver being the same as every other pistol receiver... with one number changed.
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Ah interesting... Very interesting...

I understand that this whole thing is in the development stage, so what is doable and feasible for release, is what we'll get.

But it sounds to me like, the assembly system is moving in the directing of different parts... So like different gun parts for the same type of gun and different receivers and so on...

It then also makes sense to call them "mods" instead of "parts" since the same gun can behave very differently.

I wonder how close this will be to the Fallout system... Of cause inspiration has been taken from there, but I bet TFP will do their own thing with it...

Maaaan... At the risk of being premature: Release the Kraken!!!!

 
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I like the idea of upgraded parts for the guns, rather than just generic parts with higher numbers. Like in Resident Evil 2 where you would find a briefcase with gun parts in and there would be a brief description for what the part did to the weapon. Probably one of the coolest moments when I found an extended barrel part for the dessert eagle and it exploded zombies heads in one shot with a ton of recoil.

 
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