PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Jackelmyer]

How about this idea for SI instead of the granite layer...
Players can construct a foundation out of new foundation block. The foundation can only be one block in thickness (foundation blocks cannot be placed upon other foundation blocks) and once done and activated all the blocks involved merge into a single multiblock slab. Anything built upon that foundation calculates its SI to that foundation and ignores anything below the foundation. But the foundation itself is subject to normal SI rules down to bedrock and is extremely heavy and so could not be supported by stilts or rooftops so it couldn't be used as a ceiling nor could someone suspend it and hang a base from it.

Why not just roughly apply the same rules to Granite. And don't allow players to place them. Player placeables tend to be the easiest to find ways to use them outside their intended design. Where the Granite idea, which I still think is a fantastic idea for Caves, Caverns, and Tunnels as part of World Gen, makes it so at best you can work within their constraints of initial placement.

And as far as the foundation idea, it's kinda no different then saying the top layer of dirt/terrain is where SI starts. Regardless of how easy it is to collapse.

I guess if I wanted to mess with that foundation concept, I'd just build a metal frame and then attach the foundation to the top of it. Or, a metal frame, dirt blocks, then the foundation.

Granite. No extra digging challenges. Simply Stone that acts like bedrock for SI purposes. And not a simple layer across the world. But dynamically built when underground air pockets are created in either World Gen or by Digging Zombies (or any AI that may ruin the structural integrity of the world around it.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

I think we could need a floating block that has 100% SI that can only be destroyed by a special admin tool

The block himself can only be found in the Creative menue.

So the Gamemaster/Admin are the responsible persons who can decide if such a block in the unique case would be a exploit.

Finally it is impossible to make a Block that "understand" sensefull/immersive/fair/allowed placement.

I think finally the Gamemaster/Admins are responsible anyway, so why not.

 

[Jackelmyer]

I think we could need a floating block that has 100% SI that can only be destroyed by a special admin toolThe block himself can only be found in the Creative menue.

So the Gamemaster/Admin are the responsible persons who can decide if such a block in the unique case would be a exploit.

Finally it is impossible to make a Block that "understand" sensefull/immersive/fair/allowed placement.

I think finally the Gamemaster/Admins are responsible anyway, so why not.

Admin managed blocks? As some one who's hosted in the past, hell no. Don't make me have to do more than setup the server and tweak the fun points. I wouldn't want to have to manage individual blocks and figure out all the ways to mess with it and try to counter them.

I'm willing to bet those would be yanked out of the blocks.xml in a heart beat.

 

[Henrique]

How about this idea for SI instead of the granite layer...
Players can construct a foundation out of new foundation block. The foundation can only be one block in thickness (foundation blocks cannot be placed upon other foundation blocks) and once done and activated all the blocks involved merge into a single multiblock slab. Anything built upon that foundation calculates its SI to that foundation and ignores anything below the foundation. But the foundation itself is subject to normal SI rules down to bedrock and is extremely heavy and so could not be supported by stilts or rooftops so it couldn't be used as a ceiling nor could someone suspend it and hang a base from it.

This is just like IRL!!!

I like this idea that way we can have tunnels and zeds underground!!!!!

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Finally it is a Block that exploits the system but is only used within the rules.

The point is that i cant imagine a programmable set of rules that would cover all cases.

The question is how responsible the players are.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Finally it is a Block that exploits the system but is only used within the rules.The point is that i cant imagine a programmable set of rules that would cover all cases.

The question is how responsible the players are.

They're not responsible at all. And everyone hates each other for it. At least that's how the forum reads.

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This is just like IRL!!!I like this idea that way we can have tunnels and zeds underground!!!!!

Not really. Every modern building that didn't have a great land survey done (or none at all), that ended up sinking, was because of an air pocket or soft materials pocket underground. Foundations, IRL, are only as good as the ground they sit on.

 

[Roland]

I like the idea of building a foundation first and then framing and upgrading from there. So, yes, you could still build on bare dirt but then your SI would be calculated from bedrock instead and subject to tunnels below.

Just taking a page from Ob’s book and spitballing...

 

[chaosterone]

Sounds like a revamped spider zombie. I think that instead of having them climb up walls they should just have 'em jump high. Plus, then they don't need to worry about fixing the bad looking anamation for when they climb walls. I mean, it looks like minecraft spiders climbing up walls.

This. And the possibility they use other zombies to jump higher.

 

[Jackelmyer]

I like the idea of building a foundation first and then framing and upgrading from there. So, yes, you could still build on bare dirt but then your SI would be calculated from bedrock instead and subject to tunnels below.
Just taking a page from Ob’s book and spitballing...

Oh I absolutely like the building strategy of putting a foundation down first. All my buildings have foundations. I hate living on dirt.

 

[Tin]

I like the idea of building a foundation first and then framing and upgrading from there. So, yes, you could still build on bare dirt but then your SI would be calculated from bedrock instead and subject to tunnels below.
Just taking a page from Ob’s book and spitballing... ��

I think that idea of players needing to build a foundation (to build a solid fort) and having the SI calculate from it is a great Idea! and everything else that doesn't use a foundation is calculated from bedrock. How hard would it be to add a some blocks with a <property name="foundation"/> or something and anything above that block gets its SI calculated from it? Could even put them in a foundation category in the crafting menu. Along with a tutorial beginners quest on how and why to use it.

+1

 

[Roland]

They're not responsible at all. And everyone hates each other for it. At least that's how the forum reads.
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Not really. Every modern building that didn't have a great land survey done (or none at all), that ended up sinking, was because of an air pocket or soft materials pocket underground. Foundations, IRL, are only as good as the ground they sit on.

Yes and no. It depends on how close to the surface the air pockets are but for gameplay purposes all tunnels could be ignored until a large enough excavation close enough to the surface could cause a collapse.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Of we're talking about making structures cooler, can we lose the grid snapping requirements for at least deco and crafted blocks, excluding terrain and core building crafted blocks?

Having all our couches, sinks, lights, end tables, beds, chairs, etc placeable as a snap to grid placement rule is annoying and really doesn't help the immersion factor.

That and overlapping into the air portion of another block would be cool. Meaning, if I want to put a wall lamp snuggled up next to an empty area of my work bench, sometimes how I build a structure would make that look way better.

So like some placement padding for all blocks with air in their model and a final placement offset stored with the block I placed. And then rotation offsets too so I dont have to only place a light or table at exactly one of these 32 angels.

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Yes and no. It depends on how close to the surface the air pockets are but for gameplay purposes all tunnels could be ignored until a large enough excavation close enough to the surface could cause a collapse.

Why do you abandon your own granite idea! lol

 

[KanedaSyndrome]

Zombies won't even appear near your base if you are not in the chunk making it active.

Hm, well it might mostly be an issue when playing with friends sharing the same chunk.

 

[Jackelmyer]

Hm, well it might mostly be an issue when playing with friends sharing the same chunk.

That's... actually a pretty valid point. Especially important for earlier game play when you can't make defenses that can blast away a wandering horde or screamer spawns before they completely wreck your base.

 

[KanedaSyndrome]

Alternatively you could just have a forge room underground then you won't get screamers and still be able to build up top it's the best of both worlds.

Actually exactly what I do, I have an underground crafting room with bed and storage, then I have a killzone directly on top of it, entrance is a tunnel with a shaft displaced about 100 meters away.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Why do you abandon your own granite idea! �� lol

If a idea envolve to something different it would be wrong to do it not.

 

[Jackelmyer]

If a idea envolve to something different it would be wrong to do it not.

Yeah, i'm not saying halt the discussion. Not at all. Just wondering if he's thought of some reasons to avoid the granite solution or variations using the granite solution.

 

[Maharin]

How about this idea for SI instead of the granite layer...
Players can construct a foundation out of new foundation block. The foundation can only be one block in thickness (foundation blocks cannot be placed upon other foundation blocks) and once done and activated all the blocks involved merge into a single multiblock slab. Anything built upon that foundation calculates its SI to that foundation and ignores anything below the foundation. But the foundation itself is subject to normal SI rules down to bedrock and is extremely heavy and so could not be supported by stilts or rooftops so it couldn't be used as a ceiling nor could someone suspend it and hang a base from it.

Or maybe just fix the SI calculations to be a bit more realistic? A 3 block tunnel that is 20 blocks below your house should not cause it to collapse, especially when there is solid earth/stone between the tunnel and the house. Easier said than done, I'm well aware, but it seems like a much more productive use of resources than a specialized exception that would likely create a lot of bugs on its own.

 

[Aldranon]

These are humans. You are describing humans.
Mod in some ugly NPCs and you have what you are looking for, not zombies.

Maybe I'm describing some humans, the rest, meh.

 

[graphite]

Yes and no. It depends on how close to the surface the air pockets are but for gameplay purposes all tunnels could be ignored until a large enough excavation close enough to the surface could cause a collapse.

There is a good possibilty i misundestand how SI is calaculated but i thought that a terrain block above an air block is supported by surrounding blocks glued to the face so it will only have SI max load of 70.

20 for each face minus the mass of the block.

This will continue directly vertically of blocks placed on top.

So if a structual pillar is placed in this location it will only have 70 max load.

I obviously misunderstand somewhere i just wanted to know where and how.