PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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I am liking the granite level idea.

The next level down would certainly require steel or auger tools to go through it with and increase in block density. In this level create tubes of water/underground rivers. These rivers flow from an aquifur that was radiated from the Los Alomos nuclear testing site of the 1940's to 1960's. Government never told anyone. People drank the water and were now more subseptable to a new created virus.

These rivers poluted the surrounding rocks up to 12 away. At range 12, as an example you would have very weak radiation. As you get closer to the river it gets more potent. Radiation suits help. If you break the river into your tunnel it floods and causes radiation to spread from there. Would make digging much more dangerous as you try to guess which way the river is from your location as you get closer.

There could be a third level of rock below this middle level where oil sand/oil shale could be found in higher abundance, also things like gold/silver/diamonds. But will require forged steel pick or diamond tipped auger blades. These can only be made in a Steel factory. Guess who owns such a facility. The Duke as he was smart enough to capture it and hold it from the zombies and his men actually carry forged steel weapons giving them an edge over zombies.

Some quests I thought off. The Duke wants a road between his casino and steel mill. the proposed route goes through several bandit camps that would need to removed. They have land claim blocks that once destroyed encourage them to leave the proposed route. trees destroyed cars and other stuff need to be removed. Gavel underbase and aspalt road need to be laid, hence needing to get to the oil sand/shale to make in higher quanity.

part of the road could go through a friendly white clan town. either through their town center or through some pois, where you have to build a new town center or some homes so they are willing to remove their land claim blocks to allow the player to demolition the buildings and build the dukes road.

Lastly, the duke would allow your hide in his steel mill or casino for a price based on your level and which bloodmoon it is. Say for 200 player, 7 day blood moon would cost 7k, level 10 player 700 dukes. the zombies that try to get to you the duke removes and they loot shows up in a trade room which you can buy at an inflated price. think 5x? things that would not show would be ammo or gold/silver/diamonds as his men took those as payment as well. 49 day blood moon for 200 player would be like 49k. if you had terrible reputation, he could double the price, but as your still human, the price of money/resources like nitrates, coal, ammo would sway him for the night. but loot is even more expensive and he throws you out much sooner after bloodmoon. if you have great rep, must lower cost, longer staying time.

And make the glowies actually have the good stuff. We spend resources to finish them, it would encourage people to fight rather then hide.

I agree with those who feel more carrot and less stick will encourage the lack of underground building. I also understand there are cases where people are just chilling and want to be left alone for a little while. No need to force them out of their happy place. Doing so just make them not want to play. I think the reputation quests, and having more to do then just tower defense would encourage some of that getting out and exploring. I am looking forward to what the future holds.

 
The bike looks too big, make it smaller and the frame thinner.
I’ve ridden the bike and it is exquisite. Once it is properly implemented into the game I will go every where on it. It feels good and it looks pretty good. Right now it still uses the minibike HUD but burns no gas and also no stamina so it is definitely too OP for proper play but it is going to be an awesome addition regardless of all the disappointed ones who wanted four wheelers and passenger vehicles rather than a pedal bike.

 
WOOHOO!!!!
*fingers crossed*
Does this mean we can have 100+ zombies on screen at one time? :)

Here is a throwback to 594 zombies at one time...

ZYXdVj7.jpg


 
I havent read more than 5 pages and unless I missed something whats all this hype about involving 100 zombies on screen?

Also the bath is very nice but yeah it needs a clean version and wtf is that bath of brains about. A corpse in the bath yeah sure maybe with no brain in but a bath of brains is a bit ridiculous.

Who would be storing them? O.o"

Also dont zombies eat your corpse (or look like they do) after youve been done in? Whats so special about the brains?

Loving the pallet blocks though, great stuff.

 
If zombie came "bursting through my walls" they are going through every chest, forge, mixer, my well, etc, and could potentially wipe me out before I can even see where they are.
Seems a bit more brutal than it should be....

...I wouldn't mind there being some sort of danger underground as long as it didn't result in near instant destruction of whats on the walls and was made easy enough to find in the large or small sprawl of an underground base.
That's what people living above ground have to deal with all the time. It's exactly the kind of challenge you miss out on when living underground. The way you talk about this like it's something new, I have to wonder if there are some dwarves out there that, because they stay underground, had never even considered the issue of stuff against walls being vulnerable. That would be a shame.

* No matter what digging mechanic, you'll now have to widely defend, at a bare minimum, 5 sides of a cube. With no real great pathing bait like doors. That seems REALLY excessive. Suddenly you now have the equivalent of flying zombies. ALL zombies as flying zombies.
Is that really excessive? With an above ground base, you have to defend a minimum of 4 sides of a cube. 5 sides if you're above ground and don't bother to break the ladders, wooden frames, etc. underneath you, and 6 if your roof isn't enclosed.

As for pathing bait, that's where bread crumbs could help. You got in there somehow, and you walked through air to do it. So even if you seal off the entrance, there's likely a weak side that's mostly air, unless you go out of your way to make things symmetrical, and hopefully the zombies can use that in their path finding.

* You're also pitting a situation where you have 5 cop zombies land right up against your forge room wall or ceiling and no way to know they're coming really. And even if you knew they were coming, this becomes ridiculously complex to balance game play IMO.
You can hear zombies on the other side of terrain the same way you hear them on the other side of a wall, so you know they're coming. And as for not knowing exactly where they're going to break in, because you can't see through the terrain? That's called a fair trade off for making them chew through a hundred blocks of solid material before they can reach you.

* Horizontal/diagonal digging causes SI issues. Indirectly causes excessive player maintenance potentially. Busy work = bad.
Busy work? Really? Is it busy work when a zombie tears down an above ground wall to get in, and you have to repair that wall and things above it? If not, what's the difference?

* Immersion as to how and why zombies got underground.
It occurs to me, TFP could spawn the zombie underground next to your underground base wall and just SAY that it tunneled from the surface with the dirt filling in behind it, and we wouldn't know the difference. :p

* Stupid little pitfalls breaking legs and killing people. We're all tired enough of broken legs. Right?
Broken legs are annoying, but then I break my leg plenty in PoIs, my own mines, or just on steep outdoor terrain. Better to address what makes it annoying in the first place, which IMO is the excessive length of time it takes to heal, even when using the best end-game option in the game to heal it.

Uh... What about... A Horde Vertical Digging mechanic?
With all that said, digging straight down seems fine. In fact it's how I've always been picturing digging would work - the zombie's go-to approach when it can't find a path and it's higher than the player. I still picture it as a specialist digger zombie instead of a horde trying to coordinate their animations, but the functionality is the same.

 
I don't see how hard it could be to create a grid with virtual zombies and have them wandering around virtually, and then when a player gets close to a virtual zombie a real zombie spawns into game, then when the player gets further the zombie unloads and becomes a virtual zombie again.

Remember this moment so you can refer back to it later.... 😉
Well, there you have it. Distant zombies confirmed in Alpha 17. All this talk on zombies getting into bases, when the real story is about cats getting out of bags.

 
Not if you equipped your vault with an underground garden and limitless water source first ;) Now if we had persistent zombies (no built in death timers etc.) and the Pimp's could come up with a low cost way to allow them to be there when you do come up then this could be a thing.

Add in more requirements to maintain an underground garden (grow lights, electricity for said lights etc.) and fix the unlimited water bug and we are almost there ;)
Lol then it really would be the boring game Roland is talking about.

The garden thing will work because you could have a shaft for light, but the infinite water will be fixed eventually I expect.

Also that didn't address the looting part. Without the looting you would just be in there eating and drinking. Maybe some mining.

 
In my assessment granite, as it's been described, comes up short. No matter what shape it takes - a layer between dirt and stone, a liner around tunnels and caverns, single blocks spaced periodically - it can be exploited. You can dig out everything on all sides from the granite, and since it has bedrock-level structural integrity, it will float in air. You can then stand on it and be unreachable to all but a couple zombie types.

As I try to think of what property granite is missing to make it work, I keep coming back to the conclusion that one of the most useful things that can be leveraged is a block that is not player craftable. That eliminates any notion of "well I'll just use that magic block to build xyz." Unfortunately it doesn't prevent subtractive building: that is, removing everything that isn't magic blocks to leave a remainder with exploitable magic properties.

I'm left reconsidering if "Swiss cheese" is really so bad. As I've said before, even one zombie digging out one vertical shaft would be enough to cause a fundamental change in the horde's ability to reach the player.

 
I did catch this while chugging my catchup, and I'm really happy to see both of these. Both bathtubs and 50 pound sacks were on my personal list of world art I'd like to see to fill in what's otherwise conspicuously absent from points of interest. I really hope the sacks are loot containers, because I've already been thinking about all the things you could find in them: bulk quantities of dirt, fertilizer, cement, clay, sand, corn meal, potatoes, pet food...

Next suggestion for new world art: a sliding glass door, preferably one that works for both porches and shops.

 
Lol then it really would be the boring game Roland is talking about.The garden thing will work because you could have a shaft for light, but the infinite water will be fixed eventually I expect.

Also that didn't address the looting part. Without the looting you would just be in there eating and drinking. Maybe some mining.
To be honest I think people DO actually do this lol

 
Well, there you have it. Distant zombies confirmed in Alpha 17. All this talk on zombies getting into bases, when the real story is about cats getting out of bags.
Not so...this is hopes and dreams stuff that may or may not come to fruition and maybe not until later. I’m hopeful though.

 
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