PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Guppycur]

That would limit travel somewhat, we 3 did a 8k on 120 minutes per day and saw most of the map in about 24 hours of play time. This was a 17 stable build.
On a side note, I like the messed up roadside RWG is putting out. If the POI would just not have so many of the same ones next to each other.

If you're in a tight knit group, sure, you really don't *need* to travel far... we were doing a Nav map just north of Diersville and had not gone very far at all, but the key there is we were a group.

In a real life situation on an actual active server, there are more groups, plus individuals, and things get looted and horded so quickly that you NEED to travel and explore.

Now, the following is going to sound like a slam against TFP, and although it's not my intention, I don't see a nicer way of putting it...

TFP has proven time and time again that they do not understand how people play their game. They keep pushing the short-sighted agenda of "8 player co-op group" which is why they're okay with 1 lcb, small maps, the streamlined perk play system, leveled loot, etc... they simply don't understand that people play this game for much, much different reasons and in much much different ways than intended, and that it has large scale multiplayer potential...

...too much time in single player games like Skyrim and Fallout, I imagine.

But, it's their vision, they're going to do what they want, so we just need to continue finding ways around the limitations they set. And there's nothing wrong with that, every game developer does it. From a business standpoint, you HAVE to stick with a roadmap or you're going to end up with scope creep, which is what TFP was in danger of I'd hazard to say just prior to a16.

FORTUNATELY, a lot of the limitations that are perceived don't actually exist at the moment, most people just haven't found a way around them yet. =) (Looking at you, large map "issue" that doesn't actually exist.)

 

[OldManBrian]

How happy will be people be if I said "heres your infinite map with floating pois, moses parted seas, roads that run into cliffs", etc? We're fixing bugs, optimizing map gen time and making it pretty, THEN we can look into size. Priorities.

My group and I would be pretty happy.

Skyrim is an example of this sort of thing, you can overlook a ton of bugs if the gameplay is there to back it up. For us, infinite maps with everything else this game brings to the table is a wholly unique and awesome experience. Limited island based maps are done in many other games (and better since they're usually hand crafted) and reduces the appeal of RWG in general since there's such a limited space to explore in the first place.

a16.4 emphasized building, exploring vast worlds, tower defense, and looting. Basically our dream game lol.

a17 is much more like ark, rust, conan exiles, etc as a foundation. Emphasis on grinding and action. Basically something for us that is fun in short bursts but lacks staying power. These types of games are kind of interchangeable and easy to burn out on. RWG adds a cool element that other games of these types don't have, but ultimately these games are more about the action than the exploration, so RWG is a limited novelty because of their action focus and small size. You really don't need RWG in these types of games, just a few different well-crafted maps and\or workshop support for custom maps.

But I'm a developer \ programmer and I get it. I have to agree with your priorities even though I don't agree with the overall direction of the game in a17.

I'm positive graphics have lost you guys sales. It took a while to talk a few of my friends into buying the game because they either went to your website or looked up old articles and saw alpha 14 or below style graphics and immediately became disinterested in the game. Once I got them playing in a16 though they totally looked past any shortcomings because the experience was so unique, but it's definitely a barrier.

So keep on keeping on. We'll be eagerly waiting for those maps to get giant again, and for the direction to swing back to a16 style of gameplay.

 

[Guppycur]

How is that done ? I see the mentioned buff "3" in the buffs.xml, so i guess its not really in there (yet) ?

Thanks to Alloc and KhaineGB, got the answer (okay mostly alloc but Khaine gave me the buff to test)...

Green is Rad1

Blue is Rad2

Red is Rad3

...it's a bit more interesting than that, like you could potentially combine rad effects, which opens up LOTS of possibilities, but meh. This is the simplified version.

 

[Louie04k]

What are you guys even talking about? An 8k map is 261 mb, and 131mb of that is a duplicate file that gets generated the second you load the map. Remove it and you're looking at 130mb for an 8k map. Big whoop. That's the same size as the ICON atlas. The smallest of all atlases! Wanna know why? Because it too, is 8k.
I don't know what you guys are looking at to determine how much space a map takes, but I'm assuming you're looking at the save game .rg files? That's not what gets shipped. Ship just the Worlds folder; the game will make the .rg files.

So yes, TFP can absolutely ship a few large maps and no one would even notice.

Thank you. When i came up with shipping the game with pre installed “large” maps i had no clue how big of space it would actually take. But lets even say they shipped the game with 10 very large maps, at the most it would take up 2gb. 2tb hard drive nowadays is the norm so i doubt thats an issue especially when games are releasing taking up 50+ gigs and will probably start hitting 100+ in the near future.

- - - Updated - - -

I also think the 10% is too low and probably a measurement mistake. For example after a server restart because of a bug (I don't remember the exact circumstances) my map got covered by fog again. A similar thing could have happened on that server or simply the telemetry data was wrong.
BUT I hope the "us" in your post is just refering to your group of friends and not to players in general. EA is not for everyone. My group is playing A17 for months now and we have fun with it. It definitely was ready for us.

Oh yes. I still hope to make a burning buff eventually that is able to spread to and burn down wood blocks.

Hey man if your having a blast with A17 more power to you! I really wanted to love a17 trust me, and there was some awesome changes, but it felt like 2 steps forwared and 1.5 steps backwards for me.

 

[Sam_Neill]

Thanks to Alloc and KhaineGB, got the answer (okay mostly alloc but Khaine gave me the buff to test)...

Green is Rad1

Blue is Rad2

Red is Rad3

...it's a bit more interesting than that, like you could potentially combine rad effects, which opens up LOTS of possibilities, but meh. This is the simplified version.

Thank you Does this work out of the box painting the radiation.png or is some work needed ? I did also notice the radiation.png is always smaller in size as the other world files. My guess it gets stretched.

 

[Guppycur]

Thank you Does this work out of the box painting the radiation.png or is some work needed ? I did also notice the radiation.png is always smaller in size as the other world files. My guess it gets stretched.

You'd still need to write buffs for what rad1 and rad2 actualy do, but yeh otherwise it's out of the box. So my plan is to take radiation.png, resize it to my world size, paint my radiation zones, then resize it back. You /can/ leave it the same size, but as Alloc says, that takes up memory.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

You'd still need to write buffs for what rad1 and rad2 actualy do, but yeh otherwise it's out of the box. So my plan is to take radiation.png, resize it to my world size, paint my radiation zones, then resize it back. You /can/ leave it the same size, but as Alloc says, that takes up memory.

Nice, areas where the zombies get x10 speed and x20 Damage

HAR har

 

[Guppycur]

Nice, areas where the zombies get x10 speed and x20 Damage HAR har

Yes, someone who sees the possibilities! =)

 

[Laz Man]

Yes, someone who sees the possibilities! =)

Cool finds guys!

 

[sillls]

I've been trying out the new mods and they are a lot of fun doing upgrading tools, weapons and armor.

I am seeing two different types of mods in the game. The first is a pre-made mod that is ready to attach to your equipment right away.

The second one is a Blueprint that requires both materials and a certain skill level to use.

While I like these blueprints I am still not a fan of blueprints being consumed when used. I can understand the building materials being used but not the instructions (blueprint).

I think that it would be better if the blueprints not be consumed but still needed to be either on your person or stored in your work station in order to use them.

This would require the player to still go out and find them and keeping that want in the game.

What do you guys think?

 

[Donovan522]

I think that it would be better if the blueprints not be consumed but still needed to be either on your person or stored in your work station in order to use them.

Yup, my thoughts exactly. The schematics should not be consumed when crafting. Was thinking about making a modlet to do just that, if possible.

Donovan

 

[Drithyl]

I've been trying out the new mods and they are a lot of fun doing upgrading tools, weapons and armor.
I am seeing two different types of mods in the game. The first is a pre-made mod that is ready to attach to your equipment right away.

The second one is a Blueprint that requires both materials and a certain skill level to use.

While I like these blueprints I am still not a fan of blueprints being consumed when used. I can understand the building materials being used but not the instructions (blueprint).

I think that it would be better if the blueprints not be consumed but still needed to be either on your person or stored in your work station in order to use them.

This would require the player to still go out and find them and keeping that want in the game.

What do you guys think?

When playing coop, that would mean that if you find a single blueprint, all your team gets the mod, which is the main reason why it's consumed, I would think.

 

[PurgatoryWolf]

We watched a server that had a lot of players and it sent all their map data and combined it. After a month like 20% of the actual map was uncovered. I'm pretty sure we will support 16k maps again soon enough but my point is people think they need all this space, yet 50 players only uncovered 20% of the actual map after a month of play in a16.

I help admin on 3 servers, by 2 weeks in, 75% of our maps are explored, and we typically have 10 to 15 people on most days. (all 3 servers were near capacity of 30 players the first month after 17 release).

 

[Guppycur]

Yup, my thoughts exactly. The schematics should not be consumed when crafting. Was thinking about making a modlet to do just that, if possible.
Donovan

Think of it as "key components", instead of schematics.

 

[DUST2DEATH]

Still need to load a massive height map into the game then to get the geography, roads, biomes... so you mean exclude potato pc owners from being able to join your server? Its not that simple, people EXPECT it to work if you make that option and the ram needed to generate a map like that is more than most people have (at least currently). Anyhow this stuff is above my pay grade. I'm not saying no, but we're not focused on size right now, but bugs and performance. Without the latter the prior is useless. How happy will be people be if I said "heres your infinite map with floating pois, moses parted seas, roads that run into cliffs", etc? We're fixing bugs, optimizing map gen time and making it pretty, THEN we can look into size. Priorities.

Respectfully disagree.

Options are options. What a user expects to be able to run/do, is generally not the reality.

How many times do midrange machines try to up settings above what their machine is capable of rendering?

Settings & the ability to scale, all exist for reasons.

Go big and scale down.

If Im running a server, Im running it at *my* preferences. Whether you can play or not, I dont care. Upgrade your machine if you want join such a configuration.

As for floating POI's etc, how is that any different from now?

Metro Exodus is about to drop. Metro has always been a machine killer. How many people are going to push their machines above their punching weight, all of them. How many are going to have to turn settings down, 99%.

How many people will be able to use Ray tracing? According to steam 0.15%. Didnt stop them implementing it though.

 

[khzmusik]

What are you guys even talking about? An 8k map is 261 mb, and 131mb of that is a duplicate file that gets generated the second you load the map. Remove it and you're looking at 130mb for an 8k map. Big whoop. That's the same size as the ICON atlas. The smallest of all atlases! Wanna know why? Because it too, is 8k.
I don't know what you guys are looking at to determine how much space a map takes, but I'm assuming you're looking at the save game .rg files? That's not what gets shipped. Ship just the Worlds folder; the game will make the .rg files.

So yes, TFP can absolutely ship a few large maps and no one would even notice.

The OP didn't consider 8K to be a large map. He was talking about 16K maps (or larger). Ship five maps like that and you've just added an extra 2Gb to the game - which half the players would probably never use.

(Edit: I guess technically five maps is about 2.5Gb since each 16K map is roughly half a gig. Also, just for reference, the entire 7D2D game is under 8 gigs now.)

 

[HungryZombie]

I've been trying out the new mods and they are a lot of fun doing upgrading tools, weapons and armor.
I am seeing two different types of mods in the game. The first is a pre-made mod that is ready to attach to your equipment right away.

The second one is a Blueprint that requires both materials and a certain skill level to use.

While I like these blueprints I am still not a fan of blueprints being consumed when used. I can understand the building materials being used but not the instructions (blueprint).

I think that it would be better if the blueprints not be consumed but still needed to be either on your person or stored in your work station in order to use them.

This would require the player to still go out and find them and keeping that want in the game.

What do you guys think?

What if they got rid of the blueprint entirely and instead gave each mod a unique material you need to find in order to craft it? Like for example the helmet light mod needs a mini LCD lightbulb or something. Then it's consumed when you make the mod.

 

[NukemDed]

then whats the difference? its still a one off 'thing' required to make. what people are after is the ability to make lots and lots

 

[Jackelmyer]

The OP didn't consider 8K to be a large map. He was talking about 16K maps (or larger). Ship five maps like that and you've just added an extra 2Gb to the game - which half the players would probably never use.
(Edit: I guess technically five maps is about 2.5Gb since each 16K map is roughly half a gig. Also, just for reference, the entire 7D2D game is under 8 gigs now.)

I don't see the problem adding 2.5gb to the game. Lots of games have multiple map types. And 8gb or 10.5 GB is still a rather small game. Give Fallout 76 a download. Or Red Dead Redemption 2. 10.5gb is nuthin.

 

[NukemDed]

how about a new workstation - photocopier

use it to copy schematics

but wait theres more

the copier uses toner cartridges that are also rare. that way you get to choose a rare item and convert it to a choice of a different rare item.

keep the schematic to copy and use the copy if you want more, or if you don't care or want more use the original...