PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17
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OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
It is being worked on and more improvements are coming in 17.2, but likely even more improvements in .3 etc, so you can play RWG now, but reset if you want the extra improvements included in your game, or play Nav until it's improved to a level of your satisfaction.Any update on the RWG being fixed?
weather right not top priority but an annoyance non the less.Well, weather is clearly "when we get around to it" because it's not a #1 core feature.
AI is constantly being worked on but zombies are clearly better than ever at the "getting to you" thing, which is what they absolutely must be able to - or no game.
Melee weapons... what? They have always worked the way they do now. One raycast exactly when the animation is at that point in time. It only got more accurate because it's driven by the animation, not a completely separate timer. That's why there can now be effects on melee attack speed.
How it works for zombies? I can't even comment on network shenanigans.
Performance is being worked on but this is alpha so it can never be top priority.
Movement was not "just decreased". One cheesy exploit (sprinting backwards. LUL?) was fixed and with the right perk you can jump 3m high and never break your leg when falling. If anything mobility got a massive increase overall.
There really are a lot of players who like this game, not an idolised version of A16.
It's true that A16 was simpler/easier because you could literally ignore food and water for about 3 game days... and by then you had so much of it that you could ignore it for the rest of the game. What we have now is a massive improvement because you notice the lack of either.
>snip not s reply to me<
A matter of polishing.
I did about 3 -4 posts back on page 3199 on how I changed AI in my modded game.
If everyone is complaining about how hard the game is now...
I have to laugh...
Because with the changes I made... I can not keep zombies out no matter what I do they find a way inside every time.
It makes the Bloodmoon very exciting.
Melee has not always worked this way sometimes you would hit the wall instead and it made it kinda realistic when in tight corridors.
(think kill bill 2 when Uma Thurman and Daryl Hannah had the fight in the trailer.)
But still Priority would allow the exact same thing as far as effects ans speed are concerned.
The only difference is you wouldn't miss as much.
Thank you for looking at performance
I do not have much to say except that it has been worse this alpha then the rest.... at least for me.
Okay I have disagree on movement...
It only got one single bump and that is jumping ( and that is only if you have the stamina to do so what is the jump cost 40?)
backwards movement changed...right... not a big deal but is a change
moving in water seems slower than before...
and also going up hill is definitely slower
The stamina changes also effect all movement. you used to make coffee/beer and be able to run all night...
I am not saying that was a good thing...
but you do run out of stamina and can not run as far now then previous builds as you lose too much too fast especially when fighting.
Sure there are perks that increase all of these things but by the time you get to that point in the game you are a 1 hit zombie killing god anyways... so why run?
I am not asking for an idolized version of 16 nor was I asking for an idolized version of 15 last year.
What I am asking for is to explore the extent of each versions ideas before dismissing them and adding in a whole new set.
As far as I can see we are still having problems with each integrated change and it does not seem to be ending any time soon.
Hey it is your game...so in the end the choice is yours...
I am just saying that maybe leave somethings in ...and instead of starting fresh on a new ideas...
you could maybe flesh out and add to what was already there.
I agree food and water were easier to obtain in 16...
but I think you may have gone a bit too far in the opposite direction as far as animals and meat and water consumption go.
I have to eat between 5 and 10 times a day with meat as my food ...(that's 25-50 meat a day maybe give a bit more or cost a bit less to make/cook) this is not offset by that much if I take all points in hunger and hydration perks.(can't remember the names.)
Sure there are better meals to make etc. but I am talking just meat(charred grilled boiled.)
and I have to drink 8 -12 waters a day sometimes more depending on weather effects.(so maybe weather is a bit more of a priority then we first assumed)
I do not know Gazz. I give ideas and I take ideas and I change ideas, I twist them, integrate them into one another, and I compromise them.
Whenever you all change things I do this every alpha...
I personally take them flesh them out take them to their fullest potential or as far as think I can take them then after that is done I sit and think.
Then I go back to things I liked in previous builds ...sometimes I have to go back and play them as my mind is not as sharp as it once was.
anyway I take those older ideas and integrate them back in some I twist and combine with existing others I toss aside.
and when I finally finish everything to my liking. what happens is the next alpha changes it all again.
It takes me anywhere from a few weeks to months just to fix things sometimes our fixes match sometimes they do not.
Most of the time I spend more time on things you all implemented then you do.
Sometimes I feel this gives me a better understanding of what is happening then you do.
So I Boast these things to you..
I try to make you aware of what I found from what I do and what I see.
Sometimes you seem to listen..other times you do not.
It does not matter as long as it gives you pause to think about what I am saying and you can see from a different perspective.
The Gronk
Colon Pounder
I would have thought an experimental build was the place to experiment with new fixes until they get stable enough to be pushed to a stable build. I dunno, it does seem like some sort of twisted logic.
Declaring the next build as stable just after the experimental build is released seems good on paper but it does obligate you to release a stable build which may not be quite as stable as you had hoped.
I may have the wrong definitions of experimental and stable though.
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Prisma501
New member
Its not about the definions of stable and experimental. Its about using a map from an experimental 11 versions back (b199) and being 2 stable version further and saying its bugged so cant play anymore. Waiting for a RWG update and not playing because of a bugged map can be solved by a simple wipe. No need to wait is my message.
Cheers
The Gronk
Colon Pounder
Kind of my point, in a roundabout way.
The last decent RWG build was an experimental build, this was suddenly swapped out at the last minute with very little testing or fixing (as evidenced by the HAARP arrays) with a completely different system. It was a regression but, even so, it should have been tested before release.
You now have a situation where people don't want to play the latest stable RWG because it's so broken. An experimental is considered a better experience than a stable. This is not good.
The Gronk
Colon Pounder
I know how he feels, I'm reluctant to start a new game until RWG is fixed myself. I'd play Nave (although time is limited) but random world generation is a passion of mine and the current system makes me haz a sad.
I'd be looking for ways to regress, or kludge, to the experimental version of RWG if I was bored but that's not a good situation for anyone.
Prisma501
New member
Yeh...so..sowy mate, im not the one giving you the stage to critque the way the pimps work (again) or how you think it all could be better if they just listened to you (really i read enough (too much) of that).
Please let my post be what it is. A directly targeted 2 cents to a user.
Feel free to continue ventilating your opinion on whatever. I just dont wanna be part of it.
Thanks!
Cheers
IMO A1 to A15 where the pre Alpha alphas trying out stuff A16 was more an Alpha about play ability.
A17 is the foundation Alpha, the frame work TFP will now build on to get the Beta out, I think we will see more options at start menu so players can gear towards what they want from the game, more content of various items, recipes and further flushing out of the various perks, some more optimization of AI etc.
Once the game goes Beta then we should see many final bug solutions ( for the majority)and Software optimization to make everything run smoother (for the Majority) PC games always have bugs even Gold releases get patches or don't down the line.
I think as the game is open sandbox you will never get everyone agreeing about the game as there are so many varied play styles but personally I think people should and can play the way they want, as TFP have made it easy for player to start a game with settings they want and also made the game easy to mod.
Keep up the good work i say, I have more hours playing the various Alphas of this game, than I have playing any other Gold version games or even series.
I find some of the comments and reviews of the game hilarious, especially when preface with I have more than 1000+ number of hours in the game and then rubbishing it.
A17 is the foundation Alpha, the frame work TFP will now build on to get the Beta out, I think we will see more options at start menu so players can gear towards what they want from the game, more content of various items, recipes and further flushing out of the various perks, some more optimization of AI etc.
Once the game goes Beta then we should see many final bug solutions ( for the majority)and Software optimization to make everything run smoother (for the Majority) PC games always have bugs even Gold releases get patches or don't down the line.
I think as the game is open sandbox you will never get everyone agreeing about the game as there are so many varied play styles but personally I think people should and can play the way they want, as TFP have made it easy for player to start a game with settings they want and also made the game easy to mod.
Keep up the good work i say, I have more hours playing the various Alphas of this game, than I have playing any other Gold version games or even series.
I find some of the comments and reviews of the game hilarious, especially when preface with I have more than 1000+ number of hours in the game and then rubbishing it.
The Gronk
Colon Pounder
Nobody is perfect. I've just spent the last four days compiling and recompiling projects to see if it was worth using addressable assets for a modding system, something I suggested TFP might want to look into... it wasn't. Four days on nothing but a learning experience.
I can be critical of TFP for systems that I'm passionate about, that's kind of why there a is "developer discussion", it's kind of why we're here. A discussion without criticism is a circle-jerk.
Apologies if you find me distasteful.
SnowDog1942
Navezgane's Perv
I enjoy circle-jerks tho....
You misunderstand me. We started our first world on b199 and kept updating till b240.
But right now, we are standing on a point that things get very complicated so we decided to wait for the new RWG and experience the new playstyle from previous updates.
New RWG, fresh start, different gameplay.
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OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
Well, I'm in much the same boat. I haven't been able to generate a compelling RWG yet, so I'm playing Nav. When 17.2 drops I'll check the patch notes out, and generate some new RWG maps and see if I like 'em, if I do, I'll switch, if not, I'll stick with Nav while waiting for 17.3.
Threnix
New member
Hey there. I came back to the game recently after a long hiatus and I've really been trying to understand the perspective behind taking action skills and looted recipes out of the game. I appreciate that you've posted this and I'd like to discuss it.
Essentially, the issue that you had with action skills in A16 is that you did not like the pace at which you were progressing in certain skills, relative to the pace at which you were naturally performing the skills' related activities, correct? In other words, you wanted to progress faster than the game was rewarding you for playing at your natural pace. In response, you put your immersion on hold temporarily while you repeated an activity for the sole purpose of progressing it faster.
I don't understand how A17 has benefitted you at all in this regard. The actions you end up repeating for the sake of progressing faster than your natural pace has now decreased from a few varied activities, to whichever single activity has been arbitrarily balanced in the current version of the game to be the most efficient use of your time regarding XP. In other words, in A17 you need to repeat this one arbitrarily selected activity above your natural pace as much as you needed to repeat all other activities combined in A16, to achieve the same outcome of progressing your skills faster than your natural pace.
Worse than that, the removal of the ability to find and learn recipes from loot has put even more pressure on the perk system and therefore even more pressure to repeat the single most efficient xp harvesting activity.
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For me, the action skills were basically the game recognizing the things which I actually did in the game and giving me bonuses for having done them. These bonuses made each activity a little more real and a little more important. A16 respected the time you put into each activity by rewarding you with organic growth, and with the most efficient path towards maximizing your power in those skills. Concurrently the free XP earned in tandem with the skill xp provided folks who didn't want to repeat actions for the sake of getting better, to become reasonably proficient without spending much time in a specific skill. This last aspect mitigated your issue, did it not?
Regardless, I think the real problem with the change comes down to simple comparisons, such as
Is it more fun to make your character shoot better, by
1. Using a pistol in the game to defend yourself and your base
or
2. Clicking on "SHOOT BETTER" in a menu after doing whatever?
Is it more fun to make your character learn how to craft an iron chestpiece, by
1. Going out into the world amongst the dangers and obtaining the schematic in a lucky find
or
2. Clicking on "LEARN HOW TO CRAFT IRON CHESTPIECE" in a menu after doing whatever?
The point being, 7 Days does not have a story like Fallout New Vegas. In 7 Days the character IS the story...and the action skills and looted recipes were the dynamic evidence of that story. The stuff you found, the stuff you crafted, the stuff you planted, the stuff you built, and all the things you had to shoot along the way in order to clear a path to all that stuff and to keep your base standing...the rewards came directly from and according to the things you DID...not indirectly, and entirely disconnected from your specific actions, through a menu.
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So my question to you: do you honestly spend less time repeating an action for the sake of improving faster, now that action skills and looted recipes have been removed? I ask, because I've been playing since A5, and I have never had to repeat an action for the sake of improving faster like I had to in A17. Thanks
wildaxeman1
New member
in my opinion, exp gain is now (a17.1) quite well balanced, killing gives slightly faster xp, but not much. mining and building/upgrading gives pretty good xp too.
skillwise, i would lower some level gates, but i can live with those right now, not gamebreaking. i would leave lvl 9and 10 attribute cost on 3 points, that is expencive enough.
stamina gets pretty good, after lvl 30 or so with right points in right perks. water may be hard to get only in first day or 2, so i do not see any problem with hydration.
that sayed, nobody expects solidarity. completly agree with that
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