PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17
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bob the big blob of goo
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Well, I have about 3,200 hours in the game and have played a few full make over mods. All I see is positive progress forward towards a solid game. Each version TFP try new things and rip out other experiments. It was a given that we signed on for the roller coaster ride of trying out lots of things before they figured out what they liked best.
The A17.1B9 build has me back to 30 FPS with a good amount of fun. I chose to play the game as it is for a while to get a feel for it and learn how to adapt to the changes. I see many nice changes to the game and overall forward progression. I am not having any issues progressing now that I have figured out the new flow. I build, loot, and kill zombies in about equal amounts and the new XP settings keep me leveling quickly.
I think releasing stable when they did was a smart move. It put the game in the hands of lots of players at a point where the game was definitely playable and ready for feedback. The 17.1 stable release was the correct call and 17.2 will only be better.
The two areas that I find new players on our servers really struggle with is stamina/health and temperature. The behavior doesn't click for them and doesn't appear to follow a logical pattern.
You must play test things to find a good balance. That takes time and takes people that like to not play the way the developers think. This is one of the best parts about where the game is right now because we get to have a respectful, kind, and compassionate conversation about each aspect.
My Grandpa used to say, "Anyone that slaps their doctor before surgery deserves what they get."
The A17.1B9 build has me back to 30 FPS with a good amount of fun. I chose to play the game as it is for a while to get a feel for it and learn how to adapt to the changes. I see many nice changes to the game and overall forward progression. I am not having any issues progressing now that I have figured out the new flow. I build, loot, and kill zombies in about equal amounts and the new XP settings keep me leveling quickly.
I think releasing stable when they did was a smart move. It put the game in the hands of lots of players at a point where the game was definitely playable and ready for feedback. The 17.1 stable release was the correct call and 17.2 will only be better.
The two areas that I find new players on our servers really struggle with is stamina/health and temperature. The behavior doesn't click for them and doesn't appear to follow a logical pattern.
You must play test things to find a good balance. That takes time and takes people that like to not play the way the developers think. This is one of the best parts about where the game is right now because we get to have a respectful, kind, and compassionate conversation about each aspect.
My Grandpa used to say, "Anyone that slaps their doctor before surgery deserves what they get."
OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
Regnyu,
One very important point to correct here, I definitely am not a employee of TFP, or affiliated with them in any meaningful sense. Like other moderators, I was just a forum member like anyone else, before being asking to help out moderating the forums.
When I speak, I speak only for myself (which, ironically, was the point I was trying to make in my reply to your post).
There's no denying that reviews have ticked downward somewhat on A17, but as Roland as also pointed out, there's also no unanimity in what people are complaining about, and even more importantly, some of the complaints are diametrically opposed to one another, fixing one would necessarily make those on the other side of that issue unhappy.
Pimps can't please 'em all I guess.
My attitude is this (and again, I stress this is my own personal opinion), there's aspects to A17 I don't like, either because they affect my own personal play style or because I consider them backwards steps.
So why aren't I jumping up and down?
Because TFP have delivered 16 prior great Alphas, have done so through a series of experiments (not all of which have worked out), that have ended up with a great game, so in Pimps we trust that they'll look at whats working well, enhancing that, look at what's not working well, modifying or eliminating that, and continue to refine the rest.
I trust 'em to get that right in the end, so I'm less concerned about any little detours along the way.
FileMachete
New member
Wondering if there's any news on Land Claim Blocks?
(Richard mentioned it as one of the things they would be looking at in his post 3 weeks ago)
Also, Ladder Climb speed. Any thoughts on whether 'sprint' will ever get hooked back up to climb speed? Could make it really high Stamina cost like jumping is atm?
--or possibly add it to the Parkour Agility Perk?
(Richard mentioned it as one of the things they would be looking at in his post 3 weeks ago)
Also, Ladder Climb speed. Any thoughts on whether 'sprint' will ever get hooked back up to climb speed? Could make it really high Stamina cost like jumping is atm?
--or possibly add it to the Parkour Agility Perk?
spacepiggio
New member
Do the Z's Still drop Loot? I have killed quite a few & haven't gotten diddley squat from them. Buzzards seem to stuck hovering again & not attacking sometimes, anyone else notice.
I have to disagree with a lot of this statement ( I will say this is just my opinion also.)
First let me address what Roland said about No Unanimity....
You can Never have Unanimity when you completely change every aspect of the game.
That being said lets get at what the real issues are.....IMO
When you completely Remove and change everything and they still do not work or they reiterate old bugs or do not address existing bugs (from previous versions) Or they just introduce an entire new set of problems....
Then there is something terribly wrong.
Lets make a list
Zombie AI was bad in previous versions. was changed and now is bad in entirely new ways but still in some of the old ways as well.( I know there are more changes coming but.... were they thought out all the way through... or is there going to be a whole new problem?)
Weather was bad in previous version and TFP couldn't get it to work: was changed and is still not working.
( I would like to say I fixed this issue in last build and when I told them... I got an excuse of well its more then changing just some numbers in the XML...Or I got your just tooting your own horn...Not Once did anyone in forums or from TFP ask, "what did you do to make it work?")
skills and perks had their problems in previous: was changed completely somethings were added others removed...Still has problems and some do not work at all.
(Is it better then the old version imo..NO is it worse...YEs in a way that it is no better and still has many problems)
Animal spawns: seems a bit worse this version than the last.
(last version they added a invisible animal hack to accomplish what they wanted....When I asked why I got an excuse of it is only a temp. solution. they will be looking into the code later.....here we are at the next version and guess what? the invisible hack is still in the game.
I think they did change something but to do that and still leave in the hack fix says A LOT.)
Melee weapons: changed to only hit where the crosshair is: When asked why? well they said it was because they do not know what you are actually wanting to hit?( REALLY?? I mean REALLY???.... Programming in Priority did not even enter into this conversation?)
Lag spikes and Micro stutters: worse in this version then previous which was worse then the previous on and on.
( I disagree that they made 16 great alphas I would say they made 10 maybe 11 great alphas and the rest since then have been just different. Previously they were moving forward at a better and more foreseeable rate. since 12 they have removed more and more things to change or add other things essentially it just seems they have lost there way.)
I can go on and on but no one would read it all.
I will sum up what I like and what a major problem of the game is right here.
LIkes:
I like some of the new blocks added.I Rather enjoy some of the new POI'S also. ( I did not think I would but I do) I like the bow and arrow and the retrieval of unbroken arrows. (Although the fact that missed arrows that do not break will remain in the game forever is a problem and there needs to be a time limit set...Again no thought or follow through.)
Major problem:
The game has been artificially made harder this version more than any previous.
How you may ask?
They made it slower and harder to get materials then before.
You need more materials to create somethings then before and locked things behind more gates then previously.
They jacked up experience given for things to make you level faster so that the zombies Gamestage is raised faster.
They slowed down character movement in many different ways.
They changed how melee works.
They changed how ranged weapons work.
I would rather they take any past version and improve upon and expand upon it...also to fix what is broken at the core and optimize it to function in a smooth and reliable way...
Then change almost everything to be more broken then before.
Then try to cover it all behind artificial means and claiming it is harder or more challenging.
wildaxeman1
New member
zombies still drop lootbag sometimes (2%) but loot is rather poor. last time i got 1 canned food. dead birds attack you , if you ride any vehicle or if your health drops below 90% also, when you enter in sleeper bird area.
OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
In a way though, you're kind of proving my point. You've listed a number of things you don't like about A17, a couple of which I agree with, most of which I don't and some of which I'm glad they implemented.
As with the rest of the player base, there is no way for the Pimps to make you and I both perfectly, entirely, happy. If everything you mentioned were fixed in exactly the way you wanted it, some things which I currently like about A17 would be broken.
So, I believe my point stands, there is no unanimity amongst the player base about what changes should or should not be made to A17, and while I acknowledge the launch of A17 has been...a topic of vigorous discussion shall we say, I think it's absolutely wrong for anyone to claim "just fix [x], [y] and [z] and everything will be all ok".
DrStrangechicken
New member
I'd like to see an "Oh crap" button to drop your backpack if you are badly encumbered and have to make a break for it.
spacepiggio
New member
That actually makes a lot of sense, I mean they are Buzzards & Z Buzzards none the less. I remember hitting that small Cacti now & it coming out of hover finally.
Sure but like I said Unanimity Can not be reached or achieved in any fashion If you completely change the game every time.
Saying there is no unanimity when you change everything is not a valid argument.
What you can say is because we changed everything the unanimity is further and further spread is a valid argument.
TFP did this to themselves and their player-base all on their own. No one asked them to change every feature in the game every year.
Also If you change something and it is still just as broken or more so .....You have to ask WHY?
Lets say instead of working on all these changes for the past 1 year plus...
They instead fleshed out and improved what was already in the game.
A. Unanimity would definitely be more reasonable.
B. You could provably point out a lot less that is broken and although it wouldn't be just (XYZ) to fix...
the number would be a lot less then last Alpha instead of a lot more... which is what we have now.
C. Continuing in this manner and this manner only would eventually lead to it only being (XYZ)
I am not talking just game preferences to each individuals taste I am talking out and out broken things.
I will give you a X Y Z that I think we can all agree on.
X Balance
Y Bugs
Z Lag spikes and micro stutters
I just wanted to add I do not need them to fix it to my liking I can do that all on my own....
I have in the past... present.... and am sure in the future.
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true very low % of lootbags.... you may never see 1 then again you may see many it is all RNG.
I believe he is talking about them not moving at all in the air meaning not just going side to side flying but also not going up or down they just seem to freeze in place.
I have seen the vultures do this.......also I see them flying backwards sometimes.
Retsof123
New member
App ID 251570
App Type Game
Name 7 Days to Die
Developer The Fun Pimps
Publisher The Fun Pimps Entertainment LLC
Supported Systems STEAMPLAY
Last Record Update about 6 hours ago (January 21, 2019 – 22:30:20 UTC)
Last Change Number 5702355
Release Date December 13, 2013 (5 years ago)
Steam Store Hub Stats Workshop PCGamingWiki PCGW
78.21%
↑59,576 ↓15,643
11,594
In-Game
SteamDB gives a positive 78.21% rating as of today. I don't know where they got the 48% from, out of a lolly wrapper maybe?
App Type Game
Name 7 Days to Die
Developer The Fun Pimps
Publisher The Fun Pimps Entertainment LLC
Supported Systems STEAMPLAY
Last Record Update about 6 hours ago (January 21, 2019 – 22:30:20 UTC)
Last Change Number 5702355
Release Date December 13, 2013 (5 years ago)
Steam Store Hub Stats Workshop PCGamingWiki PCGW
78.21%
↑59,576 ↓15,643
11,594
In-Game
SteamDB gives a positive 78.21% rating as of today. I don't know where they got the 48% from, out of a lolly wrapper maybe?
JaxTeller718
New member
I think they are filtering all the reviews since 17 came out, not all time reviews.
OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
Two points:
1. I'm not arguing that there's a lack of unanimity due to the major overhaul between A16 and A17, I'm saying there's always been a lack of unanimity, and there always will be - there's people who thought A16 was awful. You're not ever going to get unanimity, case in point, is my very next point:
2. (i) I think the game is pretty well balanced now as of A17.1. My issues with it aren't balance.
2. (ii) I've encountered very few bugs (which isn't to say they don't exist to be sure).
2. (iii) I don't get lag spikes or micro stutters (but I do have a beast of a machine). While I accept the need for some optimisation, even in Alpha, I also think it shouldn't be a major focus until Beta.
So, it turns out, we can't even agree on the x, y and z that you thought we could all agree on!
I'm not saying this to be contrarian, just pointing out that the complaints about A17 are many, varied, and often directly at odds with each other, and likely would have been, to a more or less degree, no matter how much, or how little, TFP changed from A16.
There is no single voice by which the player base speaks, nor any single set of changes TFP could make that would please everyone. It just doesn't exist.
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There has been a lack since alpha 12 when they started removing and changing many aspects of the game.
Like I said they did it to themselves If they stayed the course then or even maybe 13 they would not be where they are now.
Well I will point out that balance is a major problem in this game.Many people do not know or aren't aware of this fact.
If they can not agree on simple balances such as harvest cost vs crafting cost vs repair cost for blocks which the entire game is made of.
How can they begin to balance any other aspect.
Example I will pick trees although I do not know the exact number off the top of my head I do know for sure there is an imbalance.
There is a 21 meter and a 24 meter tree (<like i said not sure the exact numbers) well anyway they both have the same hit points but they each give different harvest amounts. they both take the same amount of time to take down but give something like 50 different amounts of wood return.(again not sure of the exact amount but this is just 1 example)
OR another you can get 5-6 stone from 1 stone and 1 clay. depending on the amount of clay you have handy you can get endless stone from hitting 1 block.
I am sure that if you looked into the game as deep as I have you could find endless examples like I have.
But most people are oblivious to this fact.
Bugs:
Okay just head over to the known bug list and that is not even a complete list.
If you read all the bug reports from b189 to now you will see that some were left out.
Saying you have not encountered many and then stating that they do exist is a understatement.
The list is longer than any previous version.< Fact >
Also Fact is that many of the reported bugs have been in the previous and many prior versions also.
as for lag and stutters. Well, I am going to call you on this one... and say BS.
This is not a hardware problem it is a software problem.
I have a friend who works and tests the next version hardware before released to the public I am talking GPU's in prototype phase that have projected costs of $4,000 each.
He has stutter and lag spikes in this game.
There are plenty of youtubers and streamers with beasts of machines and I see they have lag and stutters also.
Like I said and I will repeat it again..
They changed the game completely so many times now.
They strayed and did not stick to their own roadmap.
It is their Own fault. It is not the player-bases fault. they did this and now they made the player-base just as lost as they are......
on where the game is going.
This is essentially what they did
saying red is blue and blue is red then switching the colors every year saying red is now green and blue is now brown but call green yellow and brown purple okay next year red is back to blue but blue is not brown it is now green and green will now be pink and yellow is orange.
and the next year well you get the picture....
Now someone tell me of all the people I taught this too....
What colors do you think should be named what?
Meanwhile some people are colorblind ....and others liked it the way it was as we all know it to actually be.... and other will like the changes but not all etc.etc.etc.
Like I said they did this.... Well now they are in the Thunder-Dome.... and they need to decide either to.... continue from this point.... or change everything again and make an even bigger mess. (2 men enter 1 man leaves type of scenerio)
Meanwhile back on the ranch John-boy is saying goodnight to everyone. (some of their player-base fed up with it all)
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