PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Aerial]

I guess this needs to replace the forum permissions message at the top because I keep posting about it and people keep being ignorant of it. Here goes another try:
The game stores the extra amount of food you eat over 100%. You do NOT have to wait to lose 30% of your max stamina to make eating a meat stew worthwhile. You can eat a meat stew when you are at 100% max stamina and still get the benefit of it. If you have a stack of 3-4 grilled meat left after reaching 100% go ahead and eat the rest to clear an inventory slot. You'll get credit for it and your bar will stay at 100% until the extra food points have been used up by max stamina damage.

Overeating might not be ideal but it is a real mechanic in the game since A17 first released to experimental.

The only issue with this is that the UI doesn't tell us this mechanic exists. People (appropriately) believe that once you've maxed out the staminal bar at 100% it's capped. There's no indication that staminal is really at 112% so we have no way to know that there's stamina to burn before needing to eat, and no way to know how much.

It seems kind of silly to have something like 112% stamina, of course, so it would make a lot more sense to keep the existing mechanic in place but change all the number so the max amount you can "overeat" to is 100% stamina and you don't start seeing performance impact from loss of stamina/hunger effect until 70% stamina (or whatever the equivalent number is). Then a simple color change or other UI element (glow? flashing?) could let the player know they're now in the danger zone where losing more stamina impacts their character's abilities.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

The only issue with this is that the UI doesn't tell us this mechanic exists. People (appropriately) believe that once you've maxed out the staminal bar at 100% it's capped. There's no indication that staminal is really at 112% so we have no way to know that there's stamina to burn before needing to eat, and no way to know how much.
It seems kind of silly to have something like 112% stamina, of course, so it would make a lot more sense to keep the existing mechanic in place but change all the number so the max amount you can "overeat" to is 100% stamina and you don't start seeing performance impact from loss of stamina/hunger effect until 70% stamina (or whatever the equivalent number is). Then a simple color change or other UI element (glow? flashing?) could let the player know they're now in the danger zone where losing more stamina impacts their character's abilities.

There are some people who won’t notice no matter what you do. There are plenty of people who still haven’t realized that the stamina bar shows your hunger even though the percentages for hunger and stamina are almost exactly the same. Besides, the system is working similar to A16. It shouldn’t come as much of a surprise. Also if you overeat you’ll notice it takes a long time for your stamina to decrease below 99% and the 99% indicator displays multiple times while you are overfed.

 

[Aerial]

There are some people who won’t notice no matter what you do. There are plenty of people who still haven’t realized that the stamina bar shows your hunger even though the percentages for hunger and stamina are almost exactly the same.

All that really does is support the idea that the system is poorly designed or the UI is poorly designed or both. It should be obvious how hunger and stamina interact, and it isn't. Nor is it particularly intuitive.

Besides, the system is working similar to A16. It shouldn’t come as much of a surprise. Also if you overeat you’ll notice it takes a long time for your stamina to decrease below 99% and the 99% indicator displays multiple times while you are overfed.

In A16 we had a hunger bar that could be monitored separate from stamina. It was easy to learn the relationship because you could watch both change in real time. That's not the case in A17.

 

[Adilaris]

The only issue with this is that the UI doesn't tell us this mechanic exists. People (appropriately) believe that once you've maxed out the staminal bar at 100% it's capped. There's no indication that staminal is really at 112% so we have no way to know that there's stamina to burn before needing to eat, and no way to know how much.
It seems kind of silly to have something like 112% stamina, of course, so it would make a lot more sense to keep the existing mechanic in place but change all the number so the max amount you can "overeat" to is 100% stamina and you don't start seeing performance impact from loss of stamina/hunger effect until 70% stamina (or whatever the equivalent number is). Then a simple color change or other UI element (glow? flashing?) could let the player know they're now in the danger zone where losing more stamina impacts their character's abilities.

I have to agree with this, it wasn't apparent to me until I read about it here. It would make more sense for stamina to start draining a little later on as mentioned, otherwise it does appear to just drain immediately if you aren't aware of overeating.

 

[Jamie87]

With reflection quality off and shadows off and everything thing else maxed I get solid 50 to 60 fps way better that other builds hopefully they can optimize the reflection quality n shadows overall brilliant build

 

[Gareee]

All that really does is support the idea that the system is poorly designed or the UI is poorly designed or both. It should be obvious how hunger and stamina interact, and it isn't. Nor is it particularly intuitive.


In A16 we had a hunger bar that could be monitored separate from stamina. It was easy to learn the relationship because you could watch both change in real time. That's not the case in A17.

Just use red eagle's modlets to restore the food and water bars... thats what I've done, and I like the current system a LOT better.

I've got several hours into the latest build and I'm not deliberately trying to game the new system at all, just playing like normal.

Food and water have been tight, but not unmanageable. I haven't worried about unlocking the forge early or iron tools, because I always spend my early points in survival and defense.. stamina, archery, melee, chef, health restoration... that sort of thing. Once I know I can fight decently and get my basics of food and water, then I start looking to progress.

I got to my trader day 3, and lucked out with a working forge, workbench AND cement mixer, so my plan went well. I just found a (new?) mine PPI, and Royal Deluxe will probably love it!

This is the kind of poi alternatives I was hoping to either build or discover! Performance has improved, but until I see how bad horde nights are I'll reserve judgement.

I haven't seen any of the whacked out rgw issues we were seeing before (floating buildings and the like) so thats good.

I'm seeing a good mix of woodland and buildings now, so thats also a good thing. I haven't stumbled on a real town or city yet, but thats fine early game, and what we liked about a16.. exploring was a lot what we enjoyed.

I'm reading a lot of armchair quarterbacking without people even playing yet, which is disappointing. How can they respect and consider feedback without even giving the new adjustments a chance?

We'll start our personal mp game this evening, and we'll see how that unfolds... my wife usual puts points in farming and chef, and I usually tackle building and workstations.

I'm using to trader Jenner now, and don't want her voice changed.

the only issue I've seen at all so far if when you select the menu to exit game with the controller sometimes it doesn't focus properly to the menu options, but closing it and reopening it seems to cure it.

Still haven't found a santa hat, but the candy cane was a nice addition, and a good early discovery since its much better than the wood club.

I was having concerns about performance, but this build feels a lot better, and I LOVE the new ground texture! It looks like there is a bit too much orange edge around the cotton though.

The saturation makes the game feel a lot more vibrant now an alive. I think the water surface needs to be a little more transparent to tone the blue down a little, but like how its looking more than before.

Nice job FunPimps, and thanks for this nice holiday treat!

 

[Lonestarcanuck]

I guess this needs to replace the forum permissions message at the top because I keep posting about it and people keep being ignorant of it. Here goes another try:
The game stores the extra amount of food you eat over 100%. You do NOT have to wait to lose 30% of your max stamina to make eating a meat stew worthwhile. You can eat a meat stew when you are at 100% max stamina and still get the benefit of it. If you have a stack of 3-4 grilled meat left after reaching 100% go ahead and eat the rest to clear an inventory slot. You'll get credit for it and your bar will stay at 100% until the extra food points have been used up by max stamina damage.

Overeating might not be ideal but it is a real mechanic in the game since A17 first released to experimental.

so this is good to know, I missed this mechanic of eating and wondered why when I pigged out I was full for a long time.

Question - is there a MAX? so I am at 100% and I need 20 Meat Stew, will that keep me full for an additional 800+ HP?

 

[FileMachete]

Hunger tied directly to Stamina in a 1-for-1 is simply counterintuitive and unnessesary.

The one 'gain' it provides is allowing the Stamina bar in hud to also represent the Hunger bar.

-- yet that gain isn't required. The 'double-bar' of the new grey-scale can be used to show Hunger.

--- Have the grey-scale or Hunger portion, darken the blue of Stamina where they overlap. So if Hunger is at 75% & Stamina is at 100% then the first 75% of the bar shows the darker blue while the portion from 75% to 100% shows the lighter blue.

Allow Stamina to fill to 100% until Hunger falls to say 25%, that's more in line with how we all go about our day.

Water as it relates to Staminas refill rate seems fine in current system.

Benefits of above: much more 'natural', less micro-mangement of hunger, -encourages- buying perks to make higher qual food, allows removal of overstuffing, and doesn't (have to) change amount of food used up doing x. It's just a sanity/QoL tweak.

 

[Lonestarcanuck]

Food won't ever be balanced until spoilage is in.

I played games with food spoilage and I am good with it as long as we have freezers, fridges, coolers, and ice packs that work.

Adding an ice pack to a slot in a back pack would provide you with extra days of food protection.

 

[Maynard69]

Something cool I just saw with the AI.. A zombie was stuck behind a slower walking type, It attacked and knocked down the other zombie so it could get in front of him. sic, hope thats intended. Looked cool.

 

[Gnomaana]

All that really does is support the idea that the system is poorly designed or the UI is poorly designed or both. It should be obvious how hunger and stamina interact, and it isn't. Nor is it particularly intuitive.


In A16 we had a hunger bar that could be monitored separate from stamina. It was easy to learn the relationship because you could watch both change in real time. That's not the case in A17.

It took me less than one in game day on b199 to understand how Water, Food, and Stamina are all related. It's not complicated. If they made the bar show the new max and start going down then you would have people still complaining about not being able to keep it at max. They don't need to change anything about how it is displayed at this point.

 

[DaVegaNL]

So the game is running much smoother, thankfully.

.. If you manage to get it to run. I think I've had more crashes, game-not-responding, and the like in this build as with all other builds combined.

 

[beerfly]

So the game is running much smoother, thankfully.
.. If you manage to get it to run. I think I've had more crashes, game-not-responding, and the like in this build as with all other builds combined.

Is it crashing just before spawn. If yes try start by selecting the save you started, it shows in the list after crash and you can continue.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

Playing Computer games since 1984

Really you did it, worst startgame i ever played in all that time.

If you look in wikipedia under "opposite of fluid gameplay" you find a screenshot of level 1-1X of A17

I would explain it, but i am cold, i am hot and i am out of stamina

 

[Roland]

Playing Computer games since 1984
Really you did it, worst startgame i ever played in all that time.

If you look in wikipedia under "opposite of fluid gameplay" you find a screenshot of level 1-1X of A17

I would explain it, but i am cold, i am hot and i am out of stamina

I told you to get out of the biome. You had a whole day.

 

[Reckis]

I typically don't post in this forum or any other and this may well be my very first post after playing 7DTD for years, but I felt the need to post, so here i am.

First off i just want to thank The Fun Pimps for the tremendously entertaining game that they have given us and the incredible improvements made to said game, A17e is by far the best iteration of the game i have played despite its need for a little fine tuning. Please keep the faith and stick to your vision for what this game should be.

Secondly I just want to say to all of the players out there that seem to forget that this is a experimental and TFP WILL make improvements and tune things before they commit to a stable release, they always do. For those of you who will want to argue that point, just because they don't make the changes that you want them to doesn't invalidate the changes they do make.

So far they have done an excellent job of finding a balance for a horror survival game set in the modern world with default settings that are challenging for a new player.

Thank you again, TFP, for an excellent game that is a cut above anything else.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

I told you to get out of the biome. You had a whole day.

Deleted that game allready, and the next and next and next and now i am in Desert moving with 1 Km/h to the trader 500m away

 

[madmole]

The point is, hunger is a early game thing. When you got a farm you are fine. ( If not get a bigger farm) but the early game gets a big fun hit, if you have to realy seriously avoid any stamina use at all... better shoot the zombie, less stamina, better don´t run, better dont mine.

We're setting hunger in the middle of where it was and where it is, so it should be a little more forgiving, but not a permanent non issue. Before you could run non stop 2 in game hours at level 1 for only 7% food use.

 

[madmole]

Not sure how you define non-issue, but requiring 55+ raw meat (11+ charred)(the 5+ bottled water seemed about right) for a single active day {60min} of digging (with 1 rank in Slow Metabolism on b221) seems excessive. That is multiple deer/boars/wolves. Of course with the changes to slow metabolism for b231 I expect that will require even more.Only a non-issue when focusing mostly/solely on killing (which seems to be the way we're heading).

I ate at 11 pm, mined all night long, rode bike a few km, meleed zombies and by 11 am I was still at 75% with no perks. That is a non issue to me so we increased it. We overshot it too much and are dialing it back.

 

[Roland]

It took me less than one in game day on b199 to understand how Water, Food, and Stamina are all related. It's not complicated. If they made the bar show the new max and start going down then you would have people still complaining about not being able to keep it at max. They don't need to change anything about how it is displayed at this point.

This. The system is great and provides all the information you need. If I were to suggest improvements I would say to allow the % to show above 100 so people could easily see how far above the maximum bar their overeating was taking them.

Oh...and a way to just remove all the hud elements from the screen for a more cinematic playstyle relying only upon sound cues and the "feel" of too low stamina to know when to eat.