PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[khzmusik]

My only consern is that bicycles/minibikes will become obsolete, because everyone will rush to motorcycles. I definitely will. Same with iron tools/armor. Maybe leave intellect level gated as it is now?

On the subject of vehicles...

One thing I would prefer is if vehicles were available in early game but not late game. Basically the opposite of what it is now.

For example, you could find drivable cars in the wild, but their quality would deteriorate very quickly. You could need a high-level "workbench" (e.g. a hydraulic lift) to repair them. Gas would also need to be much harder to acquire.

This would encourage exploration in early game and base building in mid/late game. Basically moving from a nomadic to a "settler" play style.

I'm sure I'm in the minority with this opinion though. I've thought about trying to mod this but unless it's XML I won't do it. I already write C# all day so I have no interest in coding with SMOD or something.

 

[Devrix]

Any word of an update... tonight? :tickled_pink:

 

[Drithyl]

I just feel like we're going back to a16.4 with the forges up and running before the first 3 days, completely bypassing the first part of the game.

It's an easy tweak. The first level of that perk could be gated behind intellect 5 or 6, instead of 4 like it is now. Thus even without a level gate, getting that much intellect will at least take a few days, if you only put points in there.

I'm happy about dropping level gates because they force players to either spread their points a lot or just wait many levels without using their points, but I get the part about being able to have forges up and running too early. I personally don't mind not having them available until after the 7th day horde.

 

[Erik Louden]

Because there's a difference between being able to make a forge yourself in a base of your choosing very early on, and being dependent on a poi or a trader for their forge. The reason I stopped playing a16 very early on was that you were able to get everything rather quickly, completely bypassing the first stone age part of the game.

Isn't unlocking it optional?

You can just choose to unlock it when you feel it's time.

I don't disagree with you though.

 

[khzmusik]

Any word of an update... tonight? :tickled_pink:

I'm guessing not.

Even if TFP have one ready to go, a new build was just released. You have to restart the game on each build, so the community wouldn't have had enough time to find mid-to-late game bugs or balancing issues.

 

[Lonestarcanuck]

This is a great idea.
I would say it could be done using XML mods, but I don't know if that's possible now. I think it would require a new type of AI action (MoveToTargetFriendly or something along those lines).

On the other hand, if that is possible now, that's good news - because that same AI action could be used for other things too, including things I'm interested in doing.

DEVS: any input on whether that is possible or not? Through some combination of MoveToWaypoint and different consideration values maybe?

yeah I bet you could build in XML but getting the deer/boars to gravitate to it would be the key. or have it generate a spawner of sorts.

 

[saintones]

My biggest complaint is I can't level if I want to take time to work on a good base. If you get too far behind in the weeks, you get spanked by the Zeds. Hope there is going to be some kind of comprise.

 

[Boidster]

I just feel like we're going back to a16.4 with the forges up and running before the first 3 days, completely bypassing the first part of the game.

As we people tend to do, I figured I was "normal" in that Job 1 (or maybe 2, definitely no lower than 3) in 7D2D is to find a working forge. The forge-cabin isn't all that rare, and of course the traders might have a working one. I've only done 3 A17 worlds so far, but in each one I had access to a forge by day 2. I prioritize it over leveling or base-buliding.

With the proposed system, though, you could specialize towards forge-building and make your own by day 2 or 3 maybe, but at the cost of having basically no other attribute increases or perks. Seems to me that would increase play style choice without really affecting people who don't prioritize the forge like that.

I play almost exclusively 2-player co-op and we want to specialize. He's going to be the melee tank and I'm going to be the ranged expert, crafter, and chef. I'll take a little strength for backpack space and he'll take some perception because he needs to hit the broad side of a barn, but otherwise we try to mostly stay in our lanes to maximize our team capabilities.

Under current rules, we found ourselves stopped by the gates. I could have waited 6 or 7 levels until level 30 came along and then spent all those points in a bunch, but instead I dropped points into nice-to-haves or some extra strength or whatever. Proposed system would allow me to keep diving deeper into perception & intellect, but at a cost to my ability to generalize. Fits nicely with our play style.

But if I did want to generalize, in an SP game perhaps, I could still do that with the proposed system. Win-win?

 

[Roland]

Because there's a difference between being able to make a forge yourself in a base of your choosing very early on, and being dependent on a poi or a trader for their forge. The reason I stopped playing a16 very early on was that you were able to get everything rather quickly, completely bypassing the first stone age part of the game.

The testers talked at length about this issue so it is on their minds and it is something they will be working to balance. They very much want people to experience each progressive stage.

 

[Roland]

My biggest complaint is I can't level if I want to take time to work on a good base. If you get too far behind in the weeks, you get spanked by the Zeds. Hope there is going to be some kind of comprise.

Gazz hasn't beefed up the xp gains from doing non-killing stuff. Once that gets implemented it should be better for you.

 

[FileMachete]

Hey Roland, good to see you

Question; I'm hoping you all will be able to take a break and enjoy the holidays & family.

With that in mind will there maybe be a post along the lines of, "This is the last build until Jan x. Happy Holidays! See ya next year!" ?

 

[vitamin]

I like the idea of no level gates and more points for higher tier perks. This will allow early specializations. But as others pointed out, this will accelerate progress and bypass primitive tools. Also balancing will be more difficult as each specialization will have to be feasible for SP. Or you'll end up locking SP players into average Joe at everything type situation.

 

[wildaxeman1]

Me too... there were some things I didn't liked gated but one of the things I hated about A16 was being able to get everything very quickly. If gates are completely gone and everything is easily accessed, difficulty settings better have a "♥♥♥♥ your quickly gotten end game stuff" bloodmoon affect.

as higher attributes cost more than 1 point, you need to level up quite lot to get all your needs covered. if you wish iron tool by day 2, you need to sacrifise something else. so it will balance out some way.

 

[khzmusik]

Hey Roland, good to see you
Question; I'm hoping you all will be able to take a break and enjoy the holidays & family.

With that in mind will there maybe be a post along the lines of, "This is the last build until Jan x. Happy Holidays! See ya next year!" ?

I think this would be a good idea too. Not just for the sake of communicating that this is the last build of the year, but because TFP in general need time off.

 

[Lonestarcanuck]

GARDENs

in a16 a corn garden 40x40 would kill a server. has the code and the mechanism changed so this does not happen in A17?

 

[Roland]

Hey Roland, good to see you
Question; I'm hoping you all will be able to take a break and enjoy the holidays & family.

With that in mind will there maybe be a post along the lines of, "This is the last build until Jan x. Happy Holidays! See ya next year!" ?

Yes. They usually post something along those lines.

 

[Royal Deluxe]

The testers talked at length about this issue so it is on their minds and it is something they will be working to balance. They very much want people to experience each progressive stage.

Simple problem is that the early stages are so penalizing that you simply want to reach lvl 60 or so.

And i dont speak about guns or zombies

Stamina, Stamina, You are hot, you are cold, stamina. You are encumbered, Stamina, you are encumbered.

This is so annoying the first 14 Hours that there is not a single second you can enjoy the game.

Why should i spend many real hours in building a base that will be destroyed 10 Hours later if a Zombie only looks toward it.

Means so more TFP try to force me to stay in a gamestage that make no fun at all, so more i want to leave it.

Reinforced concrete and steelwalls should be endgamestuff. Not like now where it is the only material you can rely on.

There is simply no other material you can build a base with.

Ergo: Powerleveling

 

[Roland]

I like the idea of no level gates and more points for higher tier perks. This will allow early specializations. But as others pointed out, this will accelerate progress and bypass primitive tools. Also balancing will be more difficult as each specialization will have to be feasible for SP. Or you'll end up locking SP players into average Joe at everything type situation.

They can always gate things through other means. If they make the bellows recipe out of more advanced components for example that would delay being able to get your own forge. They could also make the bellows be a reward for a tier 2 quest and they could make it a very expensive item in the trader's secret stash. Multiple ways to get the bellows but all of them more difficult than now meaning that whether you purchase the perk or not you still have to track down the component to build it and it isn't going to happen during the first few days.

 

[FileMachete]

Yes. They usually post something along those lines.

Good to hear. Hope it's a good long break, you've earned it

 

[wildaxeman1]

Simple problem is that the early stages are so penalizing that you simply want to reach lvl 60 or so.And i dont speak about guns or zombies

Stamina, Stamina, You are hot, you are cold, stamina. You are encumbered, Stamina, you are encumbered.

This is so annoying the first 14 Hours that there is not a single second you can enjoy the game.

Why should i spend many real hours in building a base that will be destroyed 10 Hours later if a Zombie only looks toward it.

Means so more TFP try to force me to stay in a gamestage that make no fun at all, so more i want to leave it.

Reinforced concrete and steelwalls should be endgamestuff. Not like now where it is the only material you can rely on.

There is simply no other material you can build a base with.

Ergo: Powerleveling

i built my first horde base with flagstone upgraded to brick. no need any extra perk or anything. it easyly lasted through 7 and 14 day horde. no real damage dealt. so i guess, you need to change your building architecture and design. be creative.