PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[cowboyjones]

Man, I hate when ppl don't read the post properly.. I said clay patches :/

hey bud, just thought I would try to help out to clarify by my understanding. Patches of clay are removed, but clay can be found in all soil types except sand. so I am guessing its still going to be needed, but you will get it from any type of ground. How much; I have no clue.

 

[Roland]

hey bud, just thought I would try to help out to clarify by my understanding. Patches of clay are removed, but clay can be found in all soil types except sand. so I am guessing its still going to be needed, but you will get it from any type of ground. How much; I have no clue.

Lots and lots.

 

[Tin]

Man, I hate when haters hate. Say no to hate and lets celebrate that 7 days will finally get an update <3 Lets go on a date in a crate, its our fate!

pft, no hate. I gave it right back to the owner.. Now about that crate :scared:

hey bud, just thought I would try to help out to clarify by my understanding. Patches of clay are removed, but clay can be found in all soil types except sand. so I am guessing its still going to be needed, but you will get it from any type of ground. How much; I have no clue.

Lots and lots.

Cool. ty for the answers that could be given.

 

[Tin]

First of all this is not a new change....just newly revealed. The change has been in place for months so it really has nothing to do with getting rights back for console.
Secondly, it is not that you dig dirt and get some clay from it. It is that all dirt you dig other than sand is called “clay soil” and is what you use. So if anything the abundance of clay has increased by quite a magnitude.

In other words, the only change is that you don’t have to find patches now. What you dig is essentially clay that can be used for all clay needs.

It isn’t like the boulders where you get some soil and some clay and some ore and some etc...with every shovel strike.

I think what was removed (but I haven’t checked the creative menu) was “forest soil” and “plains soil” and “burnt soil” and “grassy soil”. Now all soil is useable as clay for all clay dependent recipes. (Other than the desert biome)

The only difference in gameplay is the need to open your map, find the closest reddish brown splotch, and go there. If you are in the desert you will have to exit the biome to get clay. I’m not sure how easy it will be to mod that back in for those who want that.

Not looking for the patches to return, I didn't like them either as they were an eyesore (imo) in fact in my mod I got asked to make them more noticeable when I tried to hide them

I was asking mostly, so I could make them blocks (if they got removed) to make small prefab nodes out of them or hide the patches under a layer of terrain that had high vegetation as an indicator.

 

[Gazz]

"Finding clay" has not been a cerebral challenge for anyone for umm... years?

It had turned into yet another appendix that probably sounded like a good idea at one time.

I see people loudly thinking about "bringing clay back" but I don't see anything about what gameplay loop that would be, what challenge that would pose and how it would be communicated to the player to make it a solve-able puzzle.

"Bring clay back" is not a design.

The A16 way is also not much of a design. That's why it got scrapped in the first place. We have interesting game features to tend to...

 

[Roland]

No one is on the ledge. In my opinion removing clay patches is stupid and unnecessary and no amount of trying to say how awesome it feels can change that.
...snip edge of the ledge talk...

Doesn't mean some of us cant look at a game development choice and disagree with it.

Jax, how about if we both agree that the other isn’t saying “you just shut up!” Okay?

That way you can keep posting your fears and worst case scenarios and I can keep posting my impressions and the people can read both perspectives.

When I say that the game is the best it’s ever been in my playing of it, that is in no way meant to stop you from expressing your dismay over what you think it’s going to be like. Feel free to continue to post your concerns. None of your posts expressing criticism have been deleted.

I’ll continue to give my honest impressions and in this case getting my clay needs in every shovelful of non-sand non-snow non-wasteland terrain hasn’t detracted at all from my game. But, I can see your point of view about the whole picture when you look at wood, and meat, and soils and I encourage you to continue to push against simplification and streamlining and the “dumbing down” of the game.

But you don’t need to couch your remarks with things like “what you say can’t stop me from disagreeing”. No duh. That’s a given. Keep on keeping on, man.

 

[Louie04k]

they have been simplifying the game for ages now, surprised people still are surprised by this, thats why i wait till mods that make the game interesting again are released every alpha. Same with recent bethesda games, just need to wait for mods to actually make the game good.

 

[Roland]

they have been simplifying the game for ages now, surprised people still are surprised by this, thats why i wait till mods that make the game interesting again are released every alpha. Same with recent bethesda games, just need to wait for mods to actually make the game good.

And Jax’s own mod is one of those! I'm sure Ravenhearst will have awesome clay mechanics.

 

[DoctorGrey]

First of all: I love this game and I‘m glad that TFP created it and develop it further.

But I think it is important that many players give feedback to the alpha versions, so there will be an impression of what things are important for the community of players.

Sure there are some things I‘m really looking forward too, like better performance, better zombie movement, more drivable vehicles,… but my anticipation for the A17 is shrinking every time I hear that TFP threw something out of the game and replaced it with… well, something „simplified“.

I agree with most of the things JaxTeller718 says.

… seems to be the Alpha where the game becomes an arcade game...

And the argument that „we have not played it yet“ is not very strong. If you know the mechanics of the skill system for example, you can deduce how this part of the game will be.

I understand that spam crafting is not the best way, but a perk system without any connections to the actions of the players is not better (even worse imo).

(The harvesting perk is the one I hate the most.)

Sure I will give the A17 a try, but my concern is, that the survival part of the game will be cut down very much.

 

[Roland]

(The harvesting perk is the one I hate the most.)

At the risk of possibly triggering some other segment of the player base I will say that the harvesting perk has changed since the video. There are now separate perks for harvesting materials from the land, harvesting crops from farms, and harvesting meat and gibs from animals. In this way you can certainly focus on hunting and do lots of hunting before purchasing ranks in the hunting perk and you can do lots of chopping and mining before purchasing a tier in that perk and you can do lots of farming before purchasing a perk tier in that. There absolutely doesn’t have to be any sort of feeling that you never farmed at all before spending a point there. Sure, you have the freedom to do that but since it’s not fun for you why would you? And now that the harvesting perk has been split into the three types of specific harvesting it makes it that much easier to play in a way that is true to what you want: Points spent to match those areas you are actually taking actions doing.

Sure I will give the A17 a try, but my concern is, that the survival part of the game will be cut down very much.

The survival aspect has never been so robust in my opinion. Hunger directly tied to stamina, hydration directly tied to wellness (recovery rate), huge slowdown in farming, huge reduction in easy zombie loot, more ways to get sick and suffer debilitating debuffs, much stiffer penalties for dying (if you don’t voluntarily play dead is dead that is) and by far the most thrilling survival risk of all—unbelievably improved zombies.

 

[Bubo]

Lots and lots.

Good, thanks.

:tickled_pink:

 

[Vedui]

What about vehicles being found only in loot boxes?

Must be very big loot boxes or very small vehicles

 

[SnowDog1942]

What about vehicles being found only in loot boxes?

As long as you can purchase loot boxes for 99 cents.. I'm all in.

 

[Vedui]

No major changes to mining that I can tell. Come down off your ledges.
This particular streamlining move is welcome having played with it. The map looks much better without all the clay splotches. Honestly, Clay has been ubiquitous but in patches since around A11 and has been pointed out perfectly by the map. It hasn't really been a “quest” or a challenge to “find” clay for quite awhile. I mean if you wanted to complain about easy clay, that should have been organized back in about A11 when it stopped being found only under sand near rivers and lakes and started appearing in deposits all over the map.

Now as a last straw for all you camels who detest streamlining in any form I can understand how the load has become unbearable for you but modding a clay recipe to complexify it and make obtaining clay a true process shouldn’t be too difficult to do.

We need a clay-making-crafting-bench ... where we turn the soil into clay! Removes the ugly soil patches, but still doesn't have us put soil == clay.

https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Clay-from-Indigenous-Soil

 

[Roland]

We need a clay-making-crafting-bench ... where we turn the soil into clay! Removes the ugly soil patches, but still doesn't have us put soil == clay.
https://www.wikihow.com/Make-Clay-from-Indigenous-Soil

Seems like that could be easily accomplished with a crafting recipe even without the need for a special workstation for those that want it more...."Smarting it Up"

We used to be able to craft clay using cornmeal and water. Someone ought be able to come up with something better than that and include it into their game if simply sticking your shovel into the ground mostly anywhere for the same thing is undesirable.

 

[Demonoid74]

You can get a mason jar , go in your back yard...dig a small hole down like 6 inches past the top soil...then take a few scoops out of the bottom of that hole , fill the mason jar half full . Then go fill it up with water...shake it VIGOROUSLY for a few minutes...then go set it somewhere to sit undisturbed for a day or so. Come back and look at the jar , you will see very clearly soil and clay layers formed in that jar...just about all soil contains some clay , with certain regions or areas being lower or higher clay content...As someone who has taken classes and built with Cob , you learn to do that test where ever you plan to build to see if you need to add clay to your mix , aside from sand and straw...

Makes complete and total sense to find clay while digging down into the earth...I wont miss coming across the super abundant clay patches in the game...was never a challenge to find it previously anyways...

 

[TylerDB]

@faatal im combing through so many tears just to see what you hinted on yesterday. Don’t make my reading all this crying over lost clay be in vain!

 

[JaxTeller718]

"Finding clay" has not been a cerebral challenge for anyone for umm... years?It had turned into yet another appendix that probably sounded like a good idea at one time.

I see people loudly thinking about "bringing clay back" but I don't see anything about what gameplay loop that would be, what challenge that would pose and how it would be communicated to the player to make it a solve-able puzzle.

"Bring clay back" is not a design.

The A16 way is also not much of a design. That's why it got scrapped in the first place. We have interesting game features to tend to...

It isnt the singular issue of clay patches being removed. Of course on its own its a non issue of sorts, but my chief concern is when you look at the big picture in conjunction with ALL the removals and changes.

Now youre looking at a stripped down system. A less complicated system and a system that promotes LESS activity, even if it is opening a map and moving 30 feet.

Most mods, heck ALL mods are adding complicated systems and gameplay mechanics. Starvation, Walkers, Valmod, Darkness Falls, UL, name it and it adds so much. Yeah Im going to work my magic as will all of these others. That does not change the fact I love this game for the game itself. I can sit back and have the attitude of "haha its ok ill just make it better". I want to love vanilla first and foremost. It is what I fell in love with first. NOT a mod.

Every time more news comes out about some changes or some tweaks it just feels like another door being shut on a mechanic or a feature that didnt really need to be removed. I mean, did someone at a meeting actually sit there and say "You know what, those clay patches they really need to go to take us to the next level". Its change for the sake of simplicity. Gore Blocks gone, zombie loot all but gone, plants no longer need replanted, plains gone, gun parts and statistics on them gone, vehicle parts gone, lockpicking dropped . I mean the list of what is still in the game is getting smaller and smaller.

Now Roland, you say all soil is just soil. No more burnt forest ground, plains ground etc. Does this mean ALL ground looks like the foresty one now except desert and snow?

Why are you guys so intent on taking away the uniqueness of what you took YEARS to build. Out of spite? WHY remove plains at all? So now most ground will also have simple looks to them? Where is the variety? Why strip away the games identity to become a plain jane survival clone?

You guys had this on lockdown. Sky was the limit. A13 seemed like the moment someone decided it was not a survival type game anymore. Its a sandbox game. Yet someone is removing a lot of the sandbox. Sure we will have the tools to make our OWN sand, but that sandbox is only so fun to play in if the box gets smaller and the park next door is building one twice the size.

 

[JaxTeller718]

And Jax’s own mod is one of those! I'm sure Ravenhearst will have awesome clay mechanics.

I love you big man, I really do. But Clay broke me. Im dying on this hill. RH 5 will have an entire MAP of nothing but Clay. Hope you are happy.

Im passionate. You Are passionate. We should grab dinner

lane: :fencing: :hug: :tea: reggers:

 

[69WithAzombie]

It isnt the singular issue of clay patches being removed. Of course on its own its a non issue of sorts, but my chief concern is when you look at the big picture in conjunction with ALL the removals and changes.
Now youre looking at a stripped down system. A less complicated system and a system that promotes LESS activity, even if it is opening a map and moving 30 feet.

Most mods, heck ALL mods are adding complicated systems and gameplay mechanics. Starvation, Walkers, Valmod, Darkness Falls, UL, name it and it adds so much. Yeah Im going to work my magic as will all of these others. That does not change the fact I love this game for the game itself. I can sit back and have the attitude of "haha its ok ill just make it better". I want to love vanilla first and foremost. It is what I fell in love with first. NOT a mod.

Every time more news comes out about some changes or some tweaks it just feels like another door being shut on a mechanic or a feature that didnt really need to be removed. I mean, did someone at a meeting actually sit there and say "You know what, those clay patches they really need to go to take us to the next level". Its change for the sake of simplicity. Gore Blocks gone, zombie loot all but gone, plants no longer need replanted, plains gone, gun parts and statistics on them gone, vehicle parts gone, lockpicking dropped . I mean the list of what is still in the game is getting smaller and smaller.

Now Roland, you say all soil is just soil. No more burnt forest ground, plains ground etc. Does this mean ALL ground looks like the foresty one now except desert and snow?

Why are you guys so intent on taking away the uniqueness of what you took YEARS to build. Out of spite? WHY remove plains at all? So now most ground will also have simple looks to them? Where is the variety? Why strip away the games identity to become a plain jane survival clone?

You guys had this on lockdown. Sky was the limit. A13 seemed like the moment someone decided it was not a survival type game anymore. Its a sandbox game. Yet someone is removing a lot of the sandbox. Sure we will have the tools to make our OWN sand, but that sandbox is only so fun to play in if the box gets smaller and the park next door is building one twice the size.

This post hit the nail right on the head for me.. I could not say it better myself..

"Gore Blocks gone, zombie loot all but gone, plants no longer need replanted, plains gone, gun parts and statistics on them gone, vehicle parts gone, lockpicking dropped . I mean the list of what is still in the game is getting smaller and smaller."

The game does feel like its losing its complexity and becoming very streamlined.