PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[gav_328t]

Personally, I don't like the idea that the traders exist and I never use them; and I really dislike the idea of going and doing quests for factions - to me, that goes completely against the grain of it being a survival game. It's bad enough in A16 in that there are some items that can never be found, only bought. I'd hate to think that in A17 even more stuff will be gated behind the quest system so that I'll be forced to be running around doing errands for people if I want to progress in the game. It completely destroys the idea that I'm out there on my own trying to survive against the odds.

I’d look at it from a slightly different angle. I’ve never seen it said anywhere that you would be completely alone (that doesn’t mean it hasn’t been), and it would stand to reason that if one person could still be alive, so could others. The world is a wasteland now, and with other survivors being around, then someone with some savvy would set up an outpost for trading. That to me is just common sense. Doing quests for those traders and/or factions also makes sense because then you are getting on the good side of the factions, and are under their ‘protection’ (i.e, not being shot on sight), or improving your standing with the trader, so he/she’ll be more inclined to give you a good deal and not rip you off (as much), or even so that they’d even want to trade with you at all.

In a survival situation, there will always be things you’ll want/need, that you can’t get yourself for instance. Being able to trade for that item might just be the difference in just surviving or thriving.

 

[danielspoa]

Dear devs, I'm been thinking about the modders wish of getting XML files before the release. I'm aware we can't have that but I started thinking about.. what if we got the XML's the day streamers got the experimental release? like saturday early you make a .rar available for all modders containing those xml?

Is this viable?

 

[trielkee]

Dear devs, I'm been thinking about the modders wish of getting XML files before the release. I'm aware we can't have that but I started thinking about.. what if we got the XML's the day streamers got the experimental release? like saturday early you make a .rar available for all modders containing those xml?
Is this viable?

What difference does it make if you get it two days later?

 

[beerfly]

What difference does it make if you get it two days later?

He might get severe brain damage caused by hype.

 

[danielspoa]

What difference does it make if you get it two days later?

A run a server and you know, as soon as experimental gets available servers with rush to open and people will rush to play. Normal. Thing is, people will choose the servers that are available as soon as they are able to open the game

 

[The Batman]

I've been out for like the last 6 weeks. What's the current boogalago on development? I'm seeing attribute vids from Joel. Are we still in the creation proces ?

 

[Tin]

I wouldn't get your hopes up. It's been clear for a while now that this is the direction that the devs want to push the game - from "survival horror" to "action rpg".
Personally, I don't like the idea that the traders exist and I never use them; and I really dislike the idea of going and doing quests for factions - to me, that goes completely against the grain of it being a survival game. It's bad enough in A16 in that there are some items that can never be found, only bought. I'd hate to think that in A17 even more stuff will be gated behind the quest system so that I'll be forced to be running around doing errands for people if I want to progress in the game. It completely destroys the idea that I'm out there on my own trying to survive against the odds.

I think it all comes down to what TFP have in mind with the lore of the game ultimately.

Did humanity adapt enough over the years to establish enclaves to justify traders?

Are the Traders we see, just in the infancy of this enclave trying to do just that?

Are they part of an attempt that is currently failing?

Where are these enclaves at that can do this?

Will we be able to find them some day?

Since TFP have been pretty tight lipped on the lore, minus the basic premise, numerous scenarios come to mind, on the need for traders existing.

It'll be interesting, finding out where they go with it either way (imo).

 

[beerfly]

I've been out for like the last 6 weeks. What's the current boogalago on development? I'm seeing attribute vids from Joel. Are we still in the creation proces ?

These videos are the closest we got from developement. Balancing, final touches, detailed work you know. Ah, gyro is confirmed to be in A17.

In steam Roland opened Q&A, it is pinned , so you can read bit there, too.

 

[astainless]

I wouldn't get your hopes up. It's been clear for a while now that this is the direction that the devs want to push the game - from "survival horror" to "action rpg".
Personally, I don't like the idea that the traders exist and I never use them; and I really dislike the idea of going and doing quests for factions - to me, that goes completely against the grain of it being a survival game. It's bad enough in A16 in that there are some items that can never be found, only bought. I'd hate to think that in A17 even more stuff will be gated behind the quest system so that I'll be forced to be running around doing errands for people if I want to progress in the game. It completely destroys the idea that I'm out there on my own trying to survive against the odds.

Nobody said you have to use the traders. 1st off their are air drops. That means there is some group advanced enough for aircraft and supply drops outside the radiation zone so there are survivors. 2nd if you look through history at any major collapse throughout all of recorded history people go back to barter and trading as a means to get what they need. If a zombie apocalypse actually happened once it settled down a bit you would see outposts and traders (and possibly wandering traders) as well as bandits and other survivors. Commerce in some form would continue. Nobody said you have to use them and there really isn't anything that traders have that you can not find in the wild if you look hard enough. Between looting and air drops you don't need to use them and they are so spread out that you are not going to run into one all the time plus until you reach end game levels everything is so expensive from them that even if you wanted to you couldn't just go to a trader and load up on weapons and ammo and even if you had money they have a small inventory capacity so you might get a rifle and no ammo or a shotgun and 25 to 50 rounds and that would be very expensive and they take time to get new inventory so you can't just spam them. If you would check them out you would know this instead of having a fit over something you don't even use. If anything there being traders is more survival like because that is what would happen in real life if something like a zombie apocalypse actually happened. As of right now nothing is gated behind any quest system. Even if they do put something in that is gated someone will sell it and you can buy it from a trader. LOL. Go play solo if you want a totally you against the world experience and just ignore the traders. Everyone else likes them and they are a more realistic likelihood then no traders. If you survived then others did as well.

 

[Gnomaana]

Dear devs, I'm been thinking about the modders wish of getting XML files before the release. I'm aware we can't have that but I started thinking about.. what if we got the XML's the day streamers got the experimental release? like saturday early you make a .rar available for all modders containing those xml?
Is this viable?

I'm going with no. But I guess it doesn't hurt to ask.

 

[meganoth]

Roland quote:"I haven't tested the multiplayer quests at all but I have done a few single player quests and they are a lot of fun and possibly the only way to get mods for your weapons. That is still up in the air."

If I want to explore and not set foot in a trading outpost ever I should not be punished by not getting mods.

If you don't want to use trading you can just ignore that part of the trader dialog. You can use the trader just for the quests.

If on the other hand you have a principal objection to traders existence, well, thats your problem and modding is the solution. It often hurts to have principles.

I liked finding quests in bookshops and containers, are these basic quests still in the game? Advantage of the new system is that you have more control: If you want to do a quest, go to a trader.

I wouldn't get your hopes up. It's been clear for a while now that this is the direction that the devs want to push the game - from "survival horror" to "action rpg".
Personally, I don't like the idea that the traders exist and I never use them; and I really dislike the idea of going and doing quests for factions - to me, that goes completely against the grain of it being a survival game. It's bad enough in A16 in that there are some items that can never be found, only bought. I'd hate to think that in A17 even more stuff will be gated behind the quest system so that I'll be forced to be running around doing errands for people if I want to progress in the game. It completely destroys the idea that I'm out there on my own trying to survive against the odds.

I just checked, the original kickstarter already included a strech goal of NPC characters and merchants. So this survival game was always thought to include survivors and traders, probably even factions (there is mention of the Duke). This is no direction they are taking, this is just an incomplete game where you see missing parts added.

Traders were useless in A15 and too powerful in A16, next stop, A17, should have more balance in the end. If not, we mod.

 

[Cazmyr]

There should be a character building thread somewhere, right?

Let's try this. I made this google sheet and copied it for public consumption. Anyone can edit this, so I would recommend that you copy it and use that one instead of the one being linked here.

Enjoy: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tZZNRckARZb12G7MQ9qSK9QnYtnLN6m4lDBUzIqEFBM/edit?usp=sharing

Edit to add:

Do not fill out any values that are colored in. Only put numbers in the uncolored (white) boxes. The colored fields have formulas in them to auto fill.

 

[Cazmyr]

Roland quote:"I haven't tested the multiplayer quests at all but I have done a few single player quests and they are a lot of fun and possibly the only way to get mods for your weapons. That is still up in the air."

If I want to explore and not set foot in a trading outpost ever I should not be punished by not getting mods.

I don't think this is reasonable to have access to everything just because you don't want to do something.

Games have been doing this for ages. Any game with Raids have Raid gear. The only way to get the raid gear is to do the raid.

If you want mods and they are only found in quests and traders, then guess what, you have to do quests and go to traders just like the rest of us. Your are not entitled to have access to everything if you are not willing to do the requirements.

 

[Xandyr78]

I don't think this is reasonable to have access to everything just because you don't want to do something.
Games have been doing this for ages. Any game with Raids have Raid gear. The only way to get the raid gear is to do the raid.

If you want mods and they are only found in quests and traders, then guess what, you have to do quests and go to traders just like the rest of us. Your are not entitled to have access to everything if you are not willing to do the requirements.

Agreed. This is a survival game. If you isolate yourself (for whatever reason), then the consequences are what the consequences are. In a previous post, someone mentioned not liking the traders because they "break" the idea of a survival game. I don't think that's accurate either, but everyone is entitled to play as they like. What we're not entitled to is having the game "nerfed" so that a portion of it becomes completely unnecessary. I like the idea of the trader, because let's face it...if I were to survive a zombie apocalypse and I realized I was the only living being left on the planet, I'm not sure the zeds would have a chance to eat me alive. I'd probably put an end to my own suffering.

So having the folks around who've managed to eke out a living by becoming traders makes sense. They gather, build and defend the same way the player does (from a lore perspective -- let's not even touch the "MAH BASE IS LITERALLY INDESTRUKTIBBUL!" aspect of the trader, LOL)...and now in A17, they're going to have things they need that we can get for them, creating a much more symbiotic sort of relationship between the player and the only existing NPCs in the game.

This actually enhances both the RPG aspect of the game and the survival aspect, as now not only am I fighting to survive, I'm aiding the traders in keeping their own survival going (at least in a story sense), and that's an awesome advancement, I think.

Bring on A17!

 

[Perlin_Worm]

you did not miss anything and Roland is still a human.
the three (3) sizes available sizes are :

4096 x 4096

8192 x 8192

16384 x 16384

So game setup will present us with a choice? What will the default value be set to?

What is the current size of a16 RNG?

Why would we choose anything other than 16384 x ?

 

[Xandyr78]

I just checked, the original kickstarter already included a strech goal of NPC characters and merchants. So this survival game was always thought to include survivors and traders, probably even factions (there is mention of the Duke). This is no direction they are taking, this is just an incomplete game where you see missing parts added.
Traders were useless in A15 and too powerful in A16, next stop, A17, should have more balance in the end. If not, we mod.

Thanks for pointing this out, Meganoth. I didn't back during the Kickstarter, but that's good to know. I love that A17 seems to be a push toward implementing systems that will really allow for them to craft the game they promised back then. I've loved watching this game develop, and I look forward to continuing to do so.

I think factions, a quest-line system that spreads out among all the various NPCs, and the slightly-more-RPG-than-before perk system might actually make the game more accessible to a larger player base, as it adds value and feature content AND makes the game's advancement mechanics a bit more streamlined and somewhat more familiar to RPGers in general.

Just my thoughts, though.

 

[meganoth]

Why would we choose anything other than 16384 x ?

Possible reasons:

1) A server owner may want to make sure players meet each other once in a while

2) For a quick game you don't want to wait hours for the world to be generated

3) You play SP, don't need that big a world and it just would waste disk space and generation time

4) In A18 or later: You want to handcraft a world and 16kms² are just too big for that

 

[gcomerfo]

...In steam, Roland opened Q&A, it is pinned , so you can read bit there, too.

Wait, your post made me want to give him a new nickname, "Steam Roland"!

 

[Cazmyr]

For DEVS or ROLAND

Question pertaining to vehicle/ powered tool crafting.

Currently we can upgrade these items by trading out the engine or handlebars or any of the components.

In a17 is sounds like this is no longer possible, SO when we make a vehicle and it is X quality, is there no way to upgrade it and in order to make something X+1 quality we have to make a new vehicle from scratch?

 

[sillls]

you did not miss anything and Roland is still a human.
the three (3) sizes available sizes are :

4096 x 4096

8192 x 8192

16384 x 16384

Still human?!?