PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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The design reason for the level cap/perk points cap is choice. The devs want you to have to choose which perks you take rather than merely choose what you take first. Agree or disagree, this is the devs’ vision for the game and MM has said as much. MM believes this will add more variety to playthroughs. Like all things 7dtd though, it will probably be easy to remove or increase the level cap if you are so motivated.
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? From Madmole yesterday:

We're talking about no level cap, but it might take 6 months of game play to get to a high enough level to get all the perks. The idea is you can reasonably spec out your character by level 50. It needs a lot of testing yet to see how it all works out.
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? From Madmole yesterday:
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I'm all for this, start by specializing but put in enough time and you can master everything. Much better than repeating "kill X zombie in 5 minutes" missions over and over again. Even though it would be slow as hell, it would help maintain interest in buffing out your character and be a grizzled veteran that can do it all. Particularly in single player, or any dips in server population looking for someone to help craft you some armor because you spent your points another way.

 
I disagree 100 percent. And so does everyone else. We ALL have a different idea of how long things should last. So there is no right answer here. They have to pick a happy medium. Anything more than its going to have to require modding because if you win and it takes 30 minutes to get a point Ill be mad as hell, of they win and it takes 5 hours you will be mad as hell. SOMEONE will be mad as hell either way right?
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I will.

Fertilizer offered a nice way to increase yields on farming. Buying a perk that gives you 6 extra veggies? I won't begin to laugh at how ridiculous that is. Looks like farmers role in this game is being reduced a bit which is cool if thats what they want.

That's what Ravenhearst is for. Realism.

Next thing you will tell me that there's a perk to unlock headshots...in a zombie game.

Oh...

Aside from those minor gripes MM you have excited me about this Alpha like no other before. Speccing and building a char is going to be immense fun and I cant wait to experience it in all its glory. Thank you for the videos.
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Yes I was asking myself, why do I replay Skyrim so much? Its old AF and sure mods bring some life into it, but at its core its starting over with a new character and playing it differently and seeing if I kick ass or get my ass kicked. To try all the combinations of characters and then role playing it added up to why I felt this was a very important aspect and we needed to put something similar in. Specialization is a LOT of fun I think.
And I don't want people to get too hyped, but even testing this with only a couple of attribute perks working fully and others partially, I'm having a total blast playing 17. OMFG the AI makes it amazing in itself. Like they will get to you. They can dig now, so I was mining and a guy ripped through my mining shack door and then tore my hatch out and dropped in on me. It was so frantic fighting a zombie in a 3 meter hole as I JUST started digging in there and it was dark I still had my starter torch but it was in the shack entrance. Crazy intense. Luckily it was just one zombie or I'd have been toast.

 
Hi Joel,
Thanks for all the videos!

I was wondering about the disease/injury-resistance perks. You say, at the higher tiers, that there's a x% chance to shrug off the injury/disease per minute. Is this an in-game minute? Or a real-life minute?

Thanks.
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Probably a real life minute. Everything is subject to change as its implemented and tested. Like stay down actually is like the perk now, it gives you a good chance to knock them back down during a getup animation, something we never could do before. Getting ready to test it now :)

 
I suspect the comment about no headshot bonus has been misinterpretted.

I'm currently working on the assumption that heads are still the most vulnerable area to attack. As we all know we can wail on the torso for hours without achieving a kill, and de-limbing a Zed seems to do little towards finishing them off.

We may not begin with the added Headshot perks, but that does not necessarily negate any other advantage to preferentially cracking heads from Day One onwards.

I suggest the headshot bonus simply tips the balance even further in favour of headshots and decapitations.

I could be wrong.

 
Yes I was asking myself, why do I replay Skyrim so much? Its old AF and sure mods bring some life into it, but at its core its starting over with a new character and playing it differently and seeing if I kick ass or get my ass kicked. To try all the combinations of characters and then role playing it added up to why I felt this was a very important aspect and we needed to put something similar in. Specialization is a LOT of fun I think.
And I don't want people to get too hyped, but even testing this with only a couple of attribute perks working fully and others partially, I'm having a total blast playing 17. OMFG the AI makes it amazing in itself. Like they will get to you. They can dig now, so I was mining and a guy ripped through my mining shack door and then tore my hatch out and dropped in on me. It was so frantic fighting a zombie in a 3 meter hole as I JUST started digging in there and it was dark I still had my starter torch but it was in the shack entrance. Crazy intense. Luckily it was just one zombie or I'd have been toast.
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I was thinking about this. Early game I always go underground because I can mining at night, so I have now an "adapted MO": 3 rows of spikes 4 blocks distance from my hatches.

 
It's so nice to have Madmole back here on a regular basis, plus the YouTube videos are really interesting. Joel has so much stuff to talk about, and it's always nice to get his comments on things.

I can also see that the positive is going up, even on YouTube of all places.

And of course, what we should all remember is that Madmole will eat his beard if A17 isn't out before the end of 2018... It's a promise, right?

Awesome work man!

 
We're definitely getting rid of fertilizer... I didn't know poop fights were a thing.
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I'm disappointed in you MM. I am going to have to take away your "Fun" Pimp title...... :p

Kidding aside, it was a fun bit of top foolery that was a nice break from the seriousness of the game ar times. My fondest memories:

1) The anticipation that your teammate will soon open the loot container that you just opened only to find a pile of turds....lol

2) Breaking up the group tension while waiting for daylight by tossing a turd at people....lol

It didn't happen all the time, but when it did, it brought about some great laughs.

 
I always Start every Fallout game and Elder Scrolls game as a hand to hand/unarmed character...hey , I have done that and beat every Fallout since Wasteland like that , even Tactics! Plus nothing so satisfying as charging in and 3 punching an ancient dragon to death in Skyrim!

But being able to go back and play again...differently...and specializing in different weapons , always gives those games way more replay ability...being able to max everything out and every skill , eventually leads to boredom...That is another reason most of these newer MMO's that let you constantly respect or there are no classes...are far more boring then the older ones where you picked a class and that was it...you made multiple characters so you could play different ways .

I am all for a level cap and forcing us to plan out character builds , that would just add even more to replay ability , in my eyes...people could always choose to mod that out , if they just have to become an all powerful god...

And yes Madmole , plenty of people had Turd fights or played jokes with them! We would always get into turd wars , or fill up containers in each others houses with turds etc...eh , no loss there , but it was funny occasionally...

 
We're talking about no level cap, but it might take 6 months of game play to get to a high enough level to get all the perks. The idea is you can reasonably spec out your character by level 50. It needs a lot of testing yet to see how it all works out.
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You'd be surprised at how many people would reach it. Make it so. =)

...think about it this way... the people who don't play that much will never reach the cap so therefore it's a built-in level cap, and you get the reward the players who do. Everybody wins.

 
Space snip
They did a good job of picking which tree make the most sense for everything EXCEPT farming. It is the odd man out. Sure brawn helps at certain points but it isn't even close to being as important as knowing where to plant, how deep to plant, how much water, what not to plant next to each other. My decent sized garden, that kept us overflowing in banana peppers, cucumbers, tomatoes and zucchini for the entire summer, took VERY little actual physical effort after the first couple hours. Even those first two hours weren't exactly physically taxing.
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Would you feel better about this if it was called "Survival" instead of fortitude? What I mean is, is it truly a difference of kind from the other items in the same category, or is the group label insufficient to describe the group?

I don't have a strong opinion here, I'm just curious on how you view it. Names can be powerful, I think anyway.

 
Would you feel better about this if it was called "Survival" instead of fortitude? What I mean is, is it truly a difference of kind from the other items in the same category, or is the group label insufficient to describe the group?
I don't have a strong opinion here, I'm just curious on how you view it. Names can be powerful, I think anyway.
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It's not the title. The actual benefits just don't make sense in that tree. I'm not that thrilled about fertilizer going away anyway. I thought it was a nice mechanic that seemed to work well. A skill for picking plants that give me more potatoes than someone without the skill just doesn't make much sense. But, that aside, it still would fit better in a different skill tree and Fortitude perks be more along the lines of being able to eat stuff that would make normal people sick.

It's not a huge deal. I like almost everything shown about the Perk/Skill system so far. But when MM read that description I actually stopped the video and rewound it a bit to see if I heard him right because it just seemed so odd for a Fortitude perk.

 
Would you feel better about this if it was called "Survival" instead of fortitude? What I mean is, is it truly a difference of kind from the other items in the same category, or is the group label insufficient to describe the group?
I don't have a strong opinion here, I'm just curious on how you view it. Names can be powerful, I think anyway.
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Actually...I really like the idea of Strength, Agility, Perception, Intelligence, and Survivability as stats. Makes that last one a bit of a broader category that could serve as a catch-all for both "fortitude" style perks as well as "survivalist" perks.

You could even break the perk trees down in it into appropriate categories:

Farming - crop growth/yield, enhancements, etc.

Survival - maybe the scavenging/searching perks could go here?

Fortitude - disease/food poisoning resistance.

(I think hunger/thirst could fall under either of the latter two)

Or something along those lines.

 
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@QuantumBlue

He asked for the design reason. I gave the reason that MM, Gazz, and Roland have provided for as long as I’ve been playing. I don’t have a crystal ball and don’t know which way the devs will choose to go but that IS the design reason given by TFP.

 
Another question:

In the Intellect Video the Attribute of Intellect shows a Bonus to Crafting Tier.

It progresses in .5 increments. My understanding is that there is only 6 tiers. What do these .5s represent? Is there rounding? or are there stat levels half way between each tier?

 
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