PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

[Xrt]

I loved the idea of having zombies dig underground ever since I heard of it a zillion pages back.

We get 7 days to build a base and set up our defenses, as well as gather weapons and ammo, and maybe, just maybe we'll survive.

I never liked the idea that this could be exploited by digging underground, or just spend the night on top of a roof.

In case you didn't hear me, I love the idea of not being safe at all.

Camping rooftops? Watch as your dream of survival comes crumbling down, literally.

It feels safe near bedrock? It shouldn't, and now, it won't. Love it, l-o-v-e it !

Whether they should be able to dig all day, every day, every night... or just on BM nights it's all up for debate.

Maybe they should only have crazy mode during BM nights for balance?

I can just imagine it take quite some time to develop zombies with digging abilities, so hats off to the devs!!

 

[NBornkilla]

If you are under ground and they can't see you or smell you or hear you how do they know to dig down to attack you?
This is a rhetorical question because they can't.

This is why there needs to be penalties for having an under ground base.

if they detect you they will go to the direction you were or the area they hear you i guess

 

[Xrt]

if tey detect you tey will go to the direction you were or the area they hear you i guess

Or to the area where they feel the most heat, and dig. AKA straight down to a forge running

Don't know how they'll balance this

 

[NBornkilla]

Or to the area where they feel the most heat, and dig. AKA straight down to a forge running Don't know how they'll balance this

that too

 

[chaosterone]

I am a big tunnel girl, and underground base. with a second base on stilts for hoard night. There is no way I would be done all that by day 7 and would not use a steel pickaxe that early the stamina drain is insane with steel tool items until you maxed out your perks which I never finish by 7 days. thats awesome you can, and very envious your obviously skilled in this game. I have 2600 hours in game time I am somewhat slower than most . Thanks for all your info, (knew it all since i enjoy researching my favorite games reading others POV) and your insight will in deed help others and its now in one easy spot lolThe one feature I did see yesterday that would improve things is being able to switch between MP and SP which will probally make some of the problems easier for me. But I would still HAVE to put it in MP in beginning and end games inorder to survive where I used to be able too in SP with proper preparations Alphas ago.

This won't work in A17 from the sounds of it, but.... Make a cobblestone tower 3x3 and 5 blocks high, and upgrade to flagstone. Then add wood frames at the top two rows deep, upgrade them and then downgrade to the frames (you can now shoot through them without accidently removing them) Circle the base with two rows of wood spikes and you have a simple stilt base that will survive the first two hordes. I usually have one built by day 3 on 90 minute days, and this includes time for hunting, looting and exploring.

I don't spend much time mining until my stamina is up from regular game play, I make a temporary base on the second floor of a small house. Hope this helps.

 

[IrishGhost]

Currently in A17 all human zombies will dig down if you are in a general area below them and they don't have a path to reach you.

 

[RavenGT]

not a troll if a zombie detect you it should dig down plus i hardly think a zombie will find u at bedrock other than that you are still safe.

My point is directed to 'how can they detect you?'. If you're decidedly underground, let's say 15-20 feet of solid earth between you and the zombie's feet, there's no way that you swinging a pick axe is going to be heard by the zombie. Nor is your beef stew scent going to pass through earth, etc. Of course, if you have a huge, open-air ramp downwards like an open-faced salt mine or whatever, that's a totally different story. But apart from obvious, large voids in the earth between you and it, there's no way this is going to happen realistically speaking. So then we have the 'well zombies aren't realistic!' argument, which while somewhat valid, is subject to each person's own limits to what's realistic enough and what's truly outlandish. Making zombies detect you just for the sake of taking away safety by giving them unrealistic abilities, even by zombie crafting game standards, is cheap.

Some here will agree and others won't, but to those who are against the safety of being underground - if you don't like the safety, don't do it. Why eliminate perfectly legitimate strategies for the sake of saying 'you're never safe?' That seems kinda lame.

 

[iBane]

I'm not sure I understand your analogy to Skyrim. Aren't you arguing against yourself? The point being in playing as different style characters will be achieved through capping. Instead of being the best archer/mage/whatevs simutaneously you would have to strike a more realistic balance.

Having no cap allows you to play as everything. I think that if you self-nerf yourself into being an "archer" even though you have maxed rifles and shotguns is just lame. Far less appealing than the game forcing me to either know shotguns or rifles or bows.

I've been hoping for specialization and capped skills for a long time. I think it will be great especially for multiplayer.

Makes sense for MP, but SP should have no level cap and more skill points so all skills can be maxed.

 

[Erik Louden]

My point is directed to 'how can they detect you?'. If you're decidedly underground, let's say 15-20 feet of solid earth between you and the zombie's feet, there's no way that you swinging a pick axe is going to be heard by the zombie. Nor is your beef stew scent going to pass through earth, etc. Of course, if you have a huge, open-air ramp downwards like an open-faced salt mine or whatever, that's a totally different story. But apart from obvious, large voids in the earth between you and it, there's no way this is going to happen realistically speaking. So then we have the 'well zombies aren't realistic!' argument, which while somewhat valid, is subject to each person's own limits to what's realistic enough and what's truly outlandish. Making zombies detect you just for the sake of taking away safety by giving them unrealistic abilities, even by zombie crafting game standards, is cheap.
Some here will agree and others won't, but to those who are against the safety of being underground - if you don't like the safety, don't do it. Why eliminate perfectly legitimate strategies for the sake of saying 'you're never safe?' That seems kinda lame.

IIRC these aren't your "hell has filled up" zombies but ones created by an alien virus.

Not only do they use sight, sound and smell but they can detect heat maps that the player creates when doing things like mining, cooking running campfires and forges, etc.

Just like the bloodmoon ones they can hone in on you by your heat map and detect when its below them.

 

[CarbonadiuM]

Currently in A17 all human zombies will dig down if you are in a general area below them and they don't have a path to reach you.

I think this change will be great for game play, revealing players who are hiding below. Now those same players will have to resort to the old log out trick during horde night. Screamers might even teach them a new lesson or 2.

Personally if i don't have a horde night base, I fight it out in the streets. I don't believe in the trashing of innocent POI's.

Thank you for the clarification Fataal.

 

[Roland]

REALLY ROLAND!?!, Why is everyone elses opinion wrong and only yours matters. I've read one after another of you telling people why there opinion is wrong and no one else can't have a valid point. And for me not being a computer kind of person to go in and fix xmail or programs or whatever has nothing to do with people using cd-rom omg maybe they like using discs. I don't!!! but their opinion is valid for whatever reason they use it.The whole reason I keep shut and usually only read is because i've been verbally attached almost every post i've ever made just because I have a different view or told that my opinion also doesn't matter.

Well, I'm sorry you see it that way. I don't think that my opinion is the only one that matters. I had to look back to see what I said to you that pissed you off and I guess it was scolding you for not taking the time to learn how to edit xml files. So I apologize for that. You can certainly interact with games any way you wish.

I was never saying that fixing xmls had something to do with people using CDs. I guess you missed the point I was trying to make with the analogy. My point was that you feel confident enough to play PC games through Steam and there are a lot of people who don't feel that way. Knowing the huge amount of fun to be had by learning how to use Steam and download games wouldn't you want to let people know that it isn't that hard once you get used to it and learn how and the rewards are fantastic? That is all I was saying about editing xml files. It is incredibly easy if you decide to go for it and learn and the payoffs are immeasurable. You have the ultimate options menu available to you. There are people in our community who would be willing to help you if you will give it a chance.

Now as for letting others have their own opinions, I do! Their posts stand right alongside mine. All of the arguments for having no cap on skills are still there to be read by anyone. My arguments are also there and the only way my arguments could stop those arguments from being accepted is if mine are more compelling in the minds of the readers. I told nobody to shutup or go away or to stop posting. I did say that the developers share my opinion but that is just a statement of fact and truth and it in no way makes contrary opinions less valid which is exactly why the game is moddable. TFP has designed the game to make anyone's opinion not only valid but for their opinion to become reality.

So your opinion that I'm not letting anyone else have an opinion is just wrong.....dammit, I did it again...

 

[RavenGT]

IIRC these aren't your "hell has filled up" zombies but ones created by an alien virus.
Not only do they use sight, sound and smell but they can detect heat maps that the player creates when doing things like mining, cooking running campfires and forges, etc.

Just like the bloodmoon ones they can hone in on you by your heat map and detect when its below them.

Depends on the lore of 7DTD which, AFAIK, hasn't been set in stone. "Heat maps" in terms of programming mechanisms versus heat maps of actual heat / IR radiation are two distinct things. If they can sense IR radiation, cool, but even the most sensitive IR sensors used today wouldn't be able to tell you that there's a guy who has been living 20 feet under your feet for the last week. Unless you're doing something serious enough to have the energy to raise the temperature of earth in a specific spot, rapidly enough to make it distinct from the surrounding area, this is still completely unrealistic.

 

[faatal]

Digging simply adds another direction that zombies can move in. Upwards, they climb or jump. Sideways, they move or smash. Down, they drop off ledges or dig.

Digging down into dirt is no harder than digging sideways into concrete.

Digging does not effect sensing you. Sensing works in all directions and is distance based. The game does not model sound absorption by blocks (maybe someday we can add that), so hearing you up, down or sideways is the same. Digging does not just apply to ground. If a zombie is stuck in a 2nd story room and you are below him in a 1st story room making loud noises they hear, they can dig down through the floor.

 

[RavenGT]

I think this change will be great for game play, revealing players who are hiding below. Now those same players will have to resort to the old log out trick during horde night. Screamers might even teach them a new lesson or 2.
Personally if i don't have a horde night base, I fight it out in the streets. I don't believe in the trashing of innocent POI's.

Thank you for the clarification Fataal.

Forcing people to log out and stop using a product is a horrible "feature" lol

 

[MooMoo]

Digging simply adds another direction that zombies can move in. Upwards, they climb or jump. Sideways, they move or smash. Down, they drop off ledges or dig.
Digging down into dirt is no harder than digging sideways into concrete.

Digging does not effect sensing you. Sensing works in all directions and is distance based. The game does not model sound absorption by blocks (maybe someday we can add that), so hearing you up, down or sideways is the same. Digging does not just apply to ground. If a zombie is stuck in a 2nd story room and you are below him in a 1st story room making loud noises they hear, they can dig down through the floor.

This is great news! Underground bases were so boring... Glad to know my vote on the digging poll was not in vain!!

 

[Erik Louden]

Can they attack upwards now?

Placing blocks along base walls stopping them from climbing needs to be defeatable.

 

[VikingGerbil]

It applies to any zombie regardless of how they were spawned. It is part of the normal logic to get to their target. They would have to sense you first, so if you are quiet down in a cave they should not be bothering you. Have a party. Make some noise. You might get zombies visiting from above.

Wow. This must be the biggest game changer for play style since the mini-bike or sleepers came in.

Note to self: Don't be underground on horde night or get a swiss cheese world by the morning (which you could possibly mine/stake/spike for next time).

2nd note to self: As well as a false ceiling for the wiring, I'd better put a 2nd false ceiling in for multiple stakes/spikes and some emergency gas barrels at choke points for "OMFG, they're inside" moments.

Just never gets boring this game - Well done TFP, best value for money game, I've ever had. Cheers.

 

[RavenGT]

Digging simply adds another direction that zombies can move in. Upwards, they climb or jump. Sideways, they move or smash. Down, they drop off ledges or dig.
Digging down into dirt is no harder than digging sideways into concrete.

Digging does not effect sensing you. Sensing works in all directions and is distance based. The game does not model sound absorption by blocks (maybe someday we can add that), so hearing you up, down or sideways is the same. Digging does not just apply to ground. If a zombie is stuck in a 2nd story room and you are below him in a 1st story room making loud noises they hear, they can dig down through the floor.

Thank you for the added clarification. I think sound absorption would be a huge mechanic to add in versus only distance. What is the hearing distance of a zombie currently? And is this compounded by different actions throwing sound certain distances as well?

 

[Erik Louden]

Depends on the lore of 7DTD which, AFAIK, hasn't been set in stone. "Heat maps" in terms of programming mechanisms versus heat maps of actual heat / IR radiation are two distinct things. If they can sense IR radiation, cool, but even the most sensitive IR sensors used today wouldn't be able to tell you that there's a guy who has been living 20 feet under your feet for the last week. Unless you're doing something serious enough to have the energy to raise the temperature of earth in a specific spot, rapidly enough to make it distinct from the surrounding area, this is still completely unrealistic.

I think you are looking for detail that is not going to be defined since this is not a zombie simulator.

Cops can spit acid puke, zombie bears, alien virus and digging zombies that sometimes can detect you underground.

 

[Drithyl]

I never understood why people hate the idea that you're moderately safe living underground. Some people who get little play time because of real world obligations (ahem) like being able to get to work mining or whatever, underground, and be moderately safe.

Forcing people to log out and stop using a product is a horrible "feature" lol

Usually (this vastly depends on genres) a game is intended to require the player's attention to be played. You don't play a shooter game, or an RTS, expecting to be able to do something else at the same time, and you don't call that a "horrible feature". You *can* do it, but it's at your own risk of getting killed while playing. I don't see why the same can't apply to 7 days to die. The game doesn't "force you" to log out. You're the one that logs out if you have other stuff to do besides playing the game.