PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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Yes it does generate rivers!
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However water physics and world generations are separate things...

I like minecraft water for 2 reasons: item transportation and water regeneration

When you remove a block of water from a lake in 7 days to die, the hole is not filled again. Which results in a visually ugly hole in the water
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I could be wrong, but I am fairly sure Minecraft does not, actually, have rivers. When two biomes come together there is a transitional biome- beach if it's between an ocean biome and a non-ocean biome, when the transitional biome has areas below a certain point, water is formed.

This could be out of date, but vanilla minecraft does not actually generate rivers as distinct geological/geographical features, as far as I remember.

 
MM said that with the new Unity Engine the game is getting 'all new physics'.

That is supposed to fix the mini bike falling through the world issue.

I do wonder if these new physics will effect water in a positive way as well.

 
Someone please ask @faatal to **NOT** Share daily update on AI improvement. It just make me more and more hyped. I feel like I play it already. Don't tease that hard man.
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I didn't tell you yesterday that I optimized the path grid update, when a single block changes, so it is 30x to 100x faster.

 
MM said that with the new Unity Engine the game is getting 'all new physics'.
That is supposed to fix the mini bike falling through the world issue.

I do wonder if these new physics will effect water in a positive way as well.
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Well, technically the vehicle physics were redone to use Unity's physics system, which is basically what Unity has had for years. Unity does use PhysX, which gets regular updates, so it is newer that the previous Unity physics. Water does its own thing, so should not change from the changes I mentioned. Follow that?

 
About water

Now I don't know what the devs are doing with water but I did find some cool videos by Unity that I posted below.

What (could) happen.

1. UNITY 3D Aquas Water Teck Demo

River flow view starts around 8:25 but I recommend that you watch the whole video.

I don't know about you but my jaw hit the floor when I saw this stuff.

 
Well, technically the vehicle physics were redone to use Unity's physics system, which is basically what Unity has had for years. Unity does use PhysX, which gets regular updates, so it is newer that the previous Unity physics. Water does its own thing, so should not change from the changes I mentioned. Follow that?
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Absolutely! :)

Thank you for the response!

 
Not sure if my last post created a problem

Sorry faatal I was putting all those links and your post got there just before mine. I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes.

 
My takeaway is that if this is a soap opera Malthis should be making a surprising and dramatic return any day now with an incredible story of what he suffered while gone and adding tension to mine and Guppy’s tenuous relationship. (Guppy and I would be more secure except for his recent and overt attraction to faatal).
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But first he has to get over his amnesia, before he can remember the incredible story.

Sorry Guppy, I'm taken.

 
Not sure if my last post created a problem
Sorry faatal I was putting all those links and your post got there just before mine. I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes.
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All good.

Nice water in your links, but voxel water is a different beast.

 
All good.
Nice water in your links, but voxel water is a different beast.
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Thanks.

I'm going out on a limb here but I got to ask. Why can't this physics be added to a voxel game? It's made by the same people.

 
I'm going out on a limb here but I got to ask. Why can't this physics be added to a voxel game? It's made by the same people.
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Those water examples all look like texture/shader techniques. That would work on the surface of voxel water, but would not fix what I see people mention about holes in water and other voxel issues.

 
Those water examples all look like texture/shader techniques. That would work on the surface of voxel water, but would not fix what I see people mention about holes in water and other voxel issues.
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Thanks.

So nothing can be done about the water in this game?

 
The trouble with water is not that our dear coders don't know how water should behave.It's the exponentiality of the thing.

Sure, if one water block loses half it's content you can refill/equalise it from the 6 adjacent blocks.

Then do the same with the 14 or so blocks adjacent to them and so on.

See the problem? =)

That obviously won't work.

If you define entire bodies of water as some sort of unit you still have the issue of connecting rivers between them.

And always keep in mind that the player can change the shape of any terrain...
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Yes.

So why not change the physics of water so that it's content never decreases.

You could modify the rules so that large body of water such as a lake or river never loses volume. Say in body's that have over a fifty voxels or more.

Rivers are always filling up because they are flowing and lakes could either be fed by rivers or pretend that its replenished by the rain.

Water wells could work in the same property due to underground water.

Only a small ditch of water would be effected by the original rules. If you wanted to do that. :)

 
The trouble with water is not that our dear coders don't know how water should behave.It's the exponentiality of the thing.

Sure, if one water block loses half it's content you can refill/equalise it from the 6 adjacent blocks.

Then do the same with the 14 or so blocks adjacent to them and so on.

See the problem? =)

That obviously won't work.

If you define entire bodies of water as some sort of unit you still have the issue of connecting rivers between them.

And always keep in mind that the player can change the shape of any terrain...
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I'm not sure "fixing water" is being looked at in a fair way overall. I think TFP want's a more permanent fix that looks great in real time. I don't think I've seen a game yet that handles terrain manipulation and water great in real time. I think a simpler fix to just get things working and to avoid scenarios where there's simply an empty water block sitting around, is to just throttling, heavily, the water fill mechanics. Let the system move through the fill slowly. As for rivers (start, end), pools/springs, elevation changes, etc, short term just do what you're doing now. I thought there were mechanics in place that let a block know if it was placed or affected by world gen or by user. If so, then only load fill on user impacted blocks.

I dunno. Just seems like the whole water topic has been an all or nothing topic. But really, some minor improvements would go a long way. And for Modders, maybe fixing water blocks to better handle buoyancy. Seems like a nice to have to me, but would make for some cool water vehicles to add to TFP's collection. Who doesn't want a swamp runner? :-D

 
You know once TFP fixes water to work "realistically", people are going to start clamoring for hydrostatic pressure to be implemented...

Should be something faatal could pump out in a lazy weekend.

-A

 
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