PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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AI & Difficulty

I've not read every single post, so apologies if I've missed someone mentioning these topics, but

- Any indication that there will be AI improvements in A17, so zombies don't spin in circles or turn and attack the wall on the opposite side of the room

- Any changes that will let us make it harder / blood moons last longer, I've increased the maxspawn in xml on the blood moon to 20,000 but it seems to have an upper limit around a thousand or so, which by day 21 we can kill within an hour or two of game time (playing on hardest setting with always run on and base stage level +4). Or does anyone have any additional tips for increasing difficulty beyond arbitrary restrictions on game play ( we already only allow ourselves to take over existing structures, above ground all the time)

Thanks,

 
So, reading all the updated (debatable) improvements on post 1, it's not mentioning AI improvements anywhere. Don't get me wrong, I'm loving most of what I'm seeing, however considering AI was touted as THE reason to upgrade to A17, is it still happening? Or just like most politicians primary promises, has it been dumped?
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Zombies aren't supposed to be smart.

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I hope food spoilage never happens to be honest. It'd ruin the game for me. If it does happen I hope there is an option in modded options to turn it off. Just like weather survival needs to be in there as a on/off thing because to me it adds nothing to the game other than pointless inventory tetris.
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To each his own. We all play differently. Some play this game to kill zombies, other play it as an adult version of Minecraft.

 
Zombies aren't supposed to be smart.
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Ooh I wouldn't expect complex tactics, just pure blood lust see food chase food... not see food spin in circle until something hits them, then attack opposite wall even as their food is repeatedly sinking an axe into their back.

 
I've not read every single post, so apologies if I've missed someone mentioning these topics, but
- Any indication that there will be AI improvements in A17, so zombies don't spin in circles or turn and attack the wall on the opposite side of the room

- Any changes that will let us make it harder / blood moons last longer, I've increased the maxspawn in xml on the blood moon to 20,000 but it seems to have an upper limit around a thousand or so, which by day 21 we can kill within an hour or two of game time (playing on hardest setting with always run on and base stage level +4). Or does anyone have any additional tips for increasing difficulty beyond arbitrary restrictions on game play ( we already only allow ourselves to take over existing structures, above ground all the time)

Thanks,
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Not a fix all but....

Change zombiestevecrawler to a different walk type... so they dont slowly crawl in...it helps more zeds come quicker

increase all fat cop explosion entity damage and range....

remove the basic zombie horde night group as the 4th part of the night and add in gamestaged...

Oh and replace a weak zombie like cheerleader in the final gamestage with zombieanimalbear

 
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Zombies aren't supposed to be smart.
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Well how dumb do you want them? So dumb they can't get from point A to point B in open terrain without spinning in a circle on some invisible object while having you in their sight? Do you want them so dumb they can't even try to break through walls or doors or windows to get at a food source? How dumb are you (and others) talking?

Me personally, I want them to be, at the very least, as smart as dogs or cats when trying to get food. Climb stairs, Fences, Trees, Ladders, being able to walk around objects out in the open without getting stuck and just running in circles just because. Attempt to bust down objects in their way when prey is close at hand. lol even a Mouse or an Ant can transverse a maze to get to a food source..

I mean come on.. They are at the least smart enough in just about every movie/book to recognize other zeds from a live human and transverse distances in a decent enough manner and go around objects in their path to get at us.

 
True regarding the Unity port.
In regards to zombie intelligence, I suppose there are a few things that need to happen, depending on the zombie lore. If zombies are completely braindead and just animated flesh with one desire = eat human flesh, then at the very least, the need to be able to pile up (swam each other) to get you if you are on a ledge directly above them or dig in droves to your underground base.

However, if we consider them somewhat like animals with a basic instinct and a slight version of a brain (at least a brain-step), then even the dumbest animals can find alternative routes around obstacles or change their body shape (bend or crawl) to get under or over a block. With a human just infected, maybe he/she still has some engineering smarts about him/her and can get the general sensible use of basic tools (club) or that if I fell this tree, that perch will fall.

But it's not just about zombie lore, but mainly about the entertainment of the game.
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i would like to see ledge fishing countered with true dangerous vultures that (NO dont pick up players) but will dig claws into a player and higher chance for infection and thus when flying in swooping action would also knock down a player. imagine getting knocked off of your safety ledge by a stinking bird :)

dont get that wrong i am not against players on a ledge as its one of my tactics.. but right now the only hazard we have is vultures (depending on location vultures just arent in every biome and should have chance to be in any) and spitters (i hate spitters, we were brought up to not spit) :)

 
Me personally, I want them to be, at the very least, as smart as dogs or cats when trying to get food.
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I had to smile at this, you thought it was trivial but M.I.T. finally did this with their open-source AI project. Its about as smart as a cat and dog. Cats are smarter but dogs socialize better, so you want both for a good AI. Which is what they are working on.

So if someone (you?) wants to look into their open source (if it still is open) have at it! :)

 
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I had to smile at this, you thought it was trivial but M.I.T. finally did this with their open-source AI project. Cats are smarter but dogs socialize better, so you want both for a good AI. Which is what they are working on.
So if someone (you?) wants to look into their open source (if it still is open) have at it! :)
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Ohh No No.. I don't think it's trivial at all. They will find a way if presented an opportunity to get what they want. Instinct or Intelligence which ever you want to call it.

 
Well how dumb do you want them? So dumb they can't get from point A to point B in open terrain without spinning in a circle on some invisible object while having you in their sight? Do you want them so dumb they can't even try to break through walls or doors or windows to get at a food source? How dumb are you (and others) talking?
Me personally, I want them to be, at the very least, as smart as dogs or cats when trying to get food. Climb stairs, Fences, Trees, Ladders, being able to walk around objects out in the open without getting stuck and just running in circles just because. Attempt to bust down objects in their way when prey is close at hand. lol even a Mouse or an Ant can transverse a maze to get to a food source..

I mean come on.. They are at the least smart enough in just about every movie/book to recognize other zeds from a live human and transverse distances in a decent enough manner and go around objects in their path to get at us.
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+1

I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace...

 
+1
I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace...
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Wait...are you saying that the spinning thing and not paying attention to you aren't the finished product for zombie AI...Wow this game is gonna be good!!

Coughs * VIDEO * Coughs

 
Player AI is still in testing.
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Indeed. Its gonna take forever :D

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Wait...are you saying that the spinning thing and not paying attention to you aren't the finished product for zombie AI...Wow this game is gonna be good!!
Coughs * VIDEO * Coughs
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Spinning is a feature. I accept it like that and then smash them.

 
+1
I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace...
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There are too many ways to spoof the system right now, digging underground is only one of many ways. I'm sure you know this.

The real question is what is 7D2D?

-Turret defense? Yes, if you build a vanilla above ground fort with turrets and spam up some ammo for them. Otherwise, making a gimmicky above ground fort is as safe as being at bedrock.

-PvP? No, not close yet.

-Survival? Yes and this one only requires the player to think a little.

The current Turret Defense mode and Survival game play styles in 7D2D don't really blend well.

 
+1
I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace...
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Bigger problem is that zombies are able to spawn in players base via screaming screamer zombie. There should be limited NO spawn zone to claim block's line.

 
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+1
I suspect it’s the same crowd that want no underground threats that also are happy with super dumb zeds to reduce their threat above ground as well. It always makes me smirk when people who knowingly purchased a zombie survival game complain about being interrupted by zombies spawning and harassing them all the time. They’re probably in heaven when the zeds start running in circles and they can just build in peace...
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How very generalizing of you Roland...

I'd very much like the zombies to have better AI... They are simply no threat as it stands. It's better now in A16.4 than in the previous A16 versions, but still nowhere near on par with A15 and past...

My quarrel with underground threats, are the uninspired suggestions to "fix" it here on the forum...

Most suggestions involve digging, of some kind, to force players to the surface... This is a REALLY bad idea, since this will litter the landscape with holes... Also, digging down to find a massive hole and fall to you death is also not fun.

I don't mind having threats underground... It may even enhance the game further!

I just don't want it at any cost...

And really, it's fine the way it is now... Who wants to stay underground anyway?

And if you do, so what???

It's just a really strange thing to worry about...

Edit:

FYI for the evil minded among you. People in underground bases, are some of the easiest to troll... Just saying ;)

 
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Also, how this new vehicle physics works? Is it based on old physics reedited for minibike or is it made from scratch?

 
How very generalizing of you Roland...
I'd very much like the zombies to have better AI... They are simply no thread as it stands. It's better now in A16.4 than in the previous A16 versions, but still nowhere near on par with A15 and past...

My quarrel with underground threads, are the uninspired suggestions to "fix" it here on the forum...

Most suggestions involve digging, of some kind, to force players to the surface... This is a REALLY bad idea, since this will litter the landscape with holes... Also, digging down to find a massive hole and fall to you death is also not fun.

I don't mind having threads underground... It may even enhance the game further!

I just don't want it at any cost...

And really, it's fine the way it's is now... Who wants to stay underground anyway?

And if you do, so what??? It's just a really strange thing to worry about...
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T-h-r-e-a-t = Something that intends to cause harm and diminish your safety.

T-h-r-e-a-d = Something you use with a needle to sew.

Not mocking but just wanted to be sure you knew the correct word for future conversation. :)

I never mentioned digging. I only mentioned an attitude from some that desire complete safety and separation from zombies in a zombie survival game. I don't care how others play the game. But there is a setting for non-interaction with zombies in the options. My vote is for people to use that instead of wishing for dumb spinning zombies or zones of 100% safety in the world. And I'm not worried in the least what other people do. I am only interested in a better game for how I and I alone wish to play. Making sure that all areas of the world have some challenge so that no matter where I and I alone wish to explore will be interesting and fun for me is my only concern.

So when I have advocated for digging zombies and other threats in the underworld, make no mistake, that it is simply because I personally think it will make for a better game and I have spent zero time worrying about how anyone else likes to play the game.

If I cared how others play I'd start complaining about leveled loot for Guppy's sake and food and water bars on the main screen for the rest of y'all. But I don't give a damn. ;)

 
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