PC Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

Developer Discussions: Alpha 17

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That tweet by Joel bothers me a bit. He knows we are all waiting for it and that is kind of messed up saying just how good it is and now we are burning with anticipation only to wait who knows how much longer lol. Very sad....

 
.. Roland and Team... are you getting rid of Clay Patches for the sake of just making it easier to get Clay, and stop the massive craters that form when focused..Or is this just to free up a block ID?
"Clay" is just another snowstorm in a jar but I'll tell you anyway. Having one less surface texture saves memory and helps the poor Unity texture blender which can only handle 3 adjacent textures.

Since there was no actual gameplay benefit to clay patches, either, out it goes.

Every. Single. Time.
We still like our players even if they are salty. ;)

 
It is true that the game's been going to the streamlining direction lately. Removing Sticks, just Meat, no zombie corpses... While it does feel like they're removing a big chunk of what they were working on for years, this is natural for game development and some changes do make the game smoother. Also, the game as of currently is incredibly punishing for new players. The learning curve is enormous.

There needs to be a balance between survival/realism and gameplay. I'd like if they improved the balance and added some more survival features after A17 in the future. They should add some tools for new players to help them learn the game and be less frustrated, like a tutorial or something. Not spoon-feeding and handholding.

 
This week everyone has been doing the usual finishing and fixing.
What I hinted about yesterday was...

vehicle passengers is working.
Well done faatal, Im very pleased about this good news. I think that the community would have been pretty disappointed if this wasn't added.

Again, well done :)

BTW how many passengers can we expect to be able to carry? Will they eventually be able to shoot while seated? (like pubg, fortnite..)

 
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BTW how many passengers can we expect to be able to carry? Will they eventually be able to shoot while seated? (like pubg, fortnite..)
The concept of one driver proved to be too constricting so everyone will be able to drive.

The vehicle will then choose the average of all control inputs or simply go slower if not all agree to go forward.

 
The concept of one driver proved to be too constricting so everyone will be able to drive.The vehicle will then choose the average of all control inputs or simply go slower if not all agree to go forward.
With the game mechanics being simplified at an increasingly alarming rate I woudn't be surprised if you removed the driving altogether and had everyone get out and push :-)

 
The concept of one driver proved to be too constricting so everyone will be able to drive.The vehicle will then choose the average of all control inputs or simply go slower if not all agree to go forward.
And you miss the fun part Gazz, that it reload when 2 people press "firebutton" on bazooka on vehicle.. :p

 
The concept of one driver proved to be too constricting so everyone will be able to drive.The vehicle will then choose the average of all control inputs or simply go slower if not all agree to go forward.
Like a democracy (and this forum): Very little gets done and people argue a lot. :)

"Democracy is the worst form of government... except for all the others." - Winston Churchill

A17E sounds ready for release. We should take a poll!

 
Like a democracy (and this forum): Very little gets done and people argue a lot. :) "Democracy is the worst form of government... except for all the others." - Winston Churchill

A17E sounds ready for release. We should take a poll!
A release date poll you say? Sounds like a good idea, what could possibly go wrong?

angrymobfunrun.jpg

 
I woudn't be surprised if you removed the driving altogether and had everyone get out and push :-)
Hmm. I'll have to bring that up in the next design meeting. It certainly sounds more apocalyptic.

A17E sounds ready for release. We should take a poll!
First we need a poll on whether or not there should be a poll on taking another poll on the release date. Gotta make sure everyone feel sufficiently... heard.

 
Any chance for a update video from Joel. Been 3 weeks since the last one. We must start the video summoning. Cough....video.....cough

 
First of all this is not a new change....just newly revealed. The change has been in place for months so it really has nothing to do with getting rights back for console.
Secondly, it is not that you dig dirt and get some clay from it. It is that all dirt you dig other than sand is called “clay soil” and is what you use. So if anything the abundance of clay has increased by quite a magnitude.

In other words, the only change is that you don’t have to find patches now. What you dig is essentially clay that can be used for all clay needs.

It isn’t like the boulders where you get some soil and some clay and some ore and some etc...with every shovel strike.

I think what was removed (but I haven’t checked the creative menu) was “forest soil” and “plains soil” and “burnt soil” and “grassy soil”. Now all soil is useable as clay for all clay dependent recipes. (Other than the desert biome)

The only difference in gameplay is the need to open your map, find the closest reddish brown splotch, and go there. If you are in the desert you will have to exit the biome to get clay. I’m not sure how easy it will be to mod that back in for those who want that.
I wonder what would happen if you took some of this "clay" form one biome and placed it in another. Up till now, things like soil were depended on the biome that they came from. But now that this has been turned into "clay".

What would happen if you were taking "clay" to the desert biome for the growing of crops?

 
there is no reason to believe that they removed the different appearances of soils in different biomes. They just all give clay soil, from what it sounds like.
There is, though: the fact that the plains and maple forest biomes were removed precisely for the sake of reducing terrain texture blending, which is apparently a big problem. Now Gazz confirms (while I was rushing to catch up and point this out) that was the impetus for changing clay.

...it is not that you dig dirt and get some clay from it. It is that all dirt you dig other than sand is called “clay soil” and is what you use....

It isn’t like the boulders where you get some soil and some clay and some ore and some etc...with every shovel strike.
Good, because that was my chief concern: the inventory clutter of getting dirt fragments and lumps of clay with every block you dig. We don't need more inventory clutter, bigger backpack or not.

Now that you mention it, let's talk about how every one of those boulders gives you a small quantity of iron, potassium nitrate, and lead. :) I would much prefer to have separate iron-rich, lead-rich, and KNO3-rich boulders, each with a slightly different tint, so that my backpack doesn't automatically accumulate bits of materials that I have no interest in at the time.

I would've suggested sandwiching a thin layer of clay between the dirt layer and the stone layer... but that's predicated on the assumption that dirt and clay are separately useful materials. It's a fair point that dirt fragments weren't all that useful, especially now if fertilizer is gone. Is there any variation in yield based on where a crop is planted now, or is the terrain underneath just a boolean [will grow] or [won't grow]?

I find the real life process of extracting clay from soil interesting. There's potential there to make an interesting recipe, not unlike the murky water to clean water process. Rammed earth (i.e. unprocessed clay soil) could even be a separate, quicker to make building material, when you want quantity over durability.

 
I wonder what would happen if you took some of this "clay" form one biome and placed it in another. Up till now, things like soil were depended on the biome that they came from. But now that this has been turned into "clay".
What would happen if you were taking "clay" to the desert biome for the growing of crops?
I'm pretty sure that was already a mechanic in A16. With proper irrigation it's not that hard to grow crops in the desert... within reason, nobody is going to be growing tomatoes in Death Valley any time soon.

 
I wonder what would happen if you took some of this "clay" form one biome and placed it in another. Up till now, things like soil were depended on the biome that they came from.
No, it was all dirt.

What would happen if you were taking "clay" to the desert biome for the growing of crops?
Then you beat the game. We totally did not anticipate that.

 
...I can guess that the idea originated with Madmole as he has a passion for consolidation.
And in the spirit of streamlining, it all comes down to that point. You've distilled down the root cause of most of the debates that we have here - the big ones that everyone has an opinion on, that burn for page after page. Each person ranks the losses differently in their minds, focusing on the merits of keeping the particular things that they like.

But this "passion for consolidation" is a bigger idea - a game-defining tenet, even. Some would say it's an unavoidable eventuality when experimenting and trying different things in the alpha phase. Others would say it's an instinct worth resisting: that consolidation must be rigorously justified case by case instead of making it the default posture. Which side is correct? Well, if there were consensus on that, we wouldn't have much to talk about. :)

 
This week everyone has been doing the usual finishing and fixing.
What I hinted about yesterday was...

vehicle passengers is working.
My more exciting changes:

Fixed SDTD-8907 Zombie Screamers can see through walls (added sight to woodBlock Collide).

Added AI scout grace period (2 secs) before it will scream and can't scream when stunned.

Changed AI scout scream again delay (-2), spawn distance (80m) and spawn scout (+2%).

Added AI ApproachSpot adds a path location if a scout.

Increased path location duration to 4.

Changed wandering hordes to start and end on a line 30-45m to the side of the targeted players.

Added wandering hordes have 30% chance to skip for 12 hours if targeting a single player.

Refactored vehicle save/net data to use common code and have multiple data categories.

Refactored attachments so detach is separate and slot value is sent over network.

Fixed vehicle passengers jittered in and out of seat and had old pos, so chunks did not load.

Fixed vehicles moving to inaccurate positions for observers.

Fixed remote vehicles could enable physics and passenger camera would only work then.

Fixed SDTD-8495 Vehicles can be duped by placing and taking.

Fixed vehicle could be taken while it had a driver.

Replaced minibike horn part with vehicle hornSound property and added to all vehicles.
Haha, I figured it would be passengers. That's good news!

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With all the different ground types gone, I can only think: seasons!

Temp goes below 0 celsius, all the rainfall will turn to snow!

 
This week everyone has been doing the usual finishing and fixing.
What I hinted about yesterday was...

vehicle passengers is working.
:whoo: Okay, I am officially looking forward to the new vehicles now! To my mind passengers are the feature (among what's been announced) that make the vehicles a real game changer. I applaud you for prioritizing this.

Changed wandering hordes to start and end on a line 30-45m to the side of the targeted players.
With that said, this change is firmly in second place. I've lost track of how many people have complained about "GPS hordes" that always go straight to the player's position, and how many times myself and others have explained why this is the sensible, performant way to simulate a world where zombies roam everywhere, and all it would take is an offset to remove the perception that they're always coming for you. A lot of people will be very happy about this change.

 
Cats are soft.
I see. I remember that block ID's and so on no longer being an issue roughly months / year ago now. The fact that it was a problem stuck in my memory more lol.

Well, okay.. makes sense.

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I'm pretty sure that was already a mechanic in A16. With proper irrigation it's not that hard to grow crops in the desert... within reason, nobody is going to be growing tomatoes in Death Valley any time soon.
Irrigation? No water's needed last I checked. :f

 
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