AtomicUs5000
New member
So, I was off by 2k on that particular video. And you selected a bad video for your A16 comparison. Take the average of your A16 videos after 3 months... 30K
PC Decline in 7 Days Twitch Streamers
- Thread starter xXBadDreamXx
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Kage848
Stream Team
I'm sorry I wish I had time to look all that info up but i dont. 3 months after release on my a16 videos had the same view count over the first 3 days of the videos as my a17.
Believe me or not. I looked up one random videos to prove it and it was true. But I dont have the time to look up 30 more videos in YouTube analytics. I guess you can just believe what ya like.
Also the difference between 5k and 7k is not 2k views, well it is but it's also 40% that's a big margin.
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AtomicUs5000
New member
7k to 30k is even bigger.
Kage848
Stream Team
Dunno where your getting 30k. The video I chose only had 15k total and that was after well over a year. The views it got in the first few days was 8k. Then it got another 7k over the next like 16 months. You cant compare a videos views that has been out for 16 months with one that's been out for 1 month. Give me the video you mean. But make sure it was posted 3 months after the release of alpha 16.
I'm new to the forum, played since Alpha 15.1.
I liked LBD system because it gave depth to mundane stuff you did. Sprinting from goal to goal felt a little bit more satisfying knowing that it levels you athletism a bit more and helps stamina gain. Using weapons and gaining skill was fun. And I've never ever felt urge to craft stone axes. Even if I did, it was like practicing, sharping your crafting skill. I understand though that maybe on the 100th playthrough some people could start to feel that they need to spam craft to open that perk for the 100th time.
I think they just needed to remove LBD requirements from perks so that you they don't gate. I think as a concept, LBD is a good thing and can work along with A17 perks. For example, mining LBD skill will give a little more ore per swing and block damage. Weapon LBD should give a little faster reload and accuracy. It adds a dimension to the game. I think they should consider adding some elements of it back in A18.
I liked LBD system because it gave depth to mundane stuff you did. Sprinting from goal to goal felt a little bit more satisfying knowing that it levels you athletism a bit more and helps stamina gain. Using weapons and gaining skill was fun. And I've never ever felt urge to craft stone axes. Even if I did, it was like practicing, sharping your crafting skill. I understand though that maybe on the 100th playthrough some people could start to feel that they need to spam craft to open that perk for the 100th time.
I think they just needed to remove LBD requirements from perks so that you they don't gate. I think as a concept, LBD is a good thing and can work along with A17 perks. For example, mining LBD skill will give a little more ore per swing and block damage. Weapon LBD should give a little faster reload and accuracy. It adds a dimension to the game. I think they should consider adding some elements of it back in A18.
For me personally, it has nothing to do with "simple".
I prefer the perk system of a17 to the previously used LBD system from a16. If TFP spent the time to completely redesign a new LBD system, it is possible I would prefer that.
However, the a17 perk system feels really good to me BECAUSE it is not tied to artificially grinding up construction tools to get concrete or last hitting ore nodes with shotguns or afk standing on cactus or crafting tons of bandages to use just to level up medicine. (Disclaimer : I didn't do any of those except rarely the first because I felt it was boring and stupid... but it was all possible and done and I am sure no one who did it enjoyed it.)
While a completely redesigned LBD system could POSSIBLY feel even better than the perk system, I don't personally want TFP to spend all that time and effort redoing a system yet again instead of adding new stuff.
With a17, it feels more natural because I spend my time doing what I feel advances my survival best because I am able to learn what I want or need. When deciding what to do for the day, I think about my food supplies, the state of my base, the amount of mats I have.... the things I NEED to survive and thrive.
I no longer have to worry about whether I need to hit things with a construction tool, a mining tool, or a particular gun. If I want concrete to upgrade my base, I don't have to grind up construction TOOLS specifically to obtain it. I can loot poi's and harvest concrete from bags there. I can also sell extra loot and buy concrete. I have more options to obtain many of my goals.
In a17, my focus is what I need instead of what I need to grind. Unlike you, I feel way more freedom to do whatever activity I feel suits my needs best at the moment. To me, the experience gain seems fine no matter how I spend my days and I do many more varied activities than in previous versions. I explore more poi's with more enjoyment and sense of danger due to their improvements. I mine when I need ore/stone with no incentive to grind mining tools a bit more to be able to purchase the next level of miner 69er. That feels much more natural to me. I work on my base whenever I obtain new mats and right before horde night I assess and improve as needed. I enjoy the quests and do them whenever nothing else is more pressing.
I never go out to kill zombies for experience or mine for experience. I give no thought to experience at all, I just play.
I enjoy being able to play and do what I feel I need to do instead of doing what I need to grind up what I need. Playing organically is much more immersive to me.
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I can understand. I just hope they can reduce the pain of some things I really dislike about A17 like having to spend 28 points to master a single skill under an attribute.
The defense of this is either "well, spending points on an attribute is not "wasted" points" and/or "well, that's the point of specialization" to which I say
-> It's not a waste of points entirely, but sometimes I want to play a certain way which does NOT involve getting more HP before I get more HP regen... as example, I hate being "forced" to get in a certain order
-> If the fact that there is only one or two perks under an attribute you see appealing, then fundamentally, they have done a poor job of making a tree "specialized" and/or balancing all the perks under that attribute to where not just one, but all perks are appealing (or at least a good portion) in the context of one specialization
I hope they address those issues. Then I will like it more.
The defense of this is either "well, spending points on an attribute is not "wasted" points" and/or "well, that's the point of specialization" to which I say
-> It's not a waste of points entirely, but sometimes I want to play a certain way which does NOT involve getting more HP before I get more HP regen... as example, I hate being "forced" to get in a certain order
-> If the fact that there is only one or two perks under an attribute you see appealing, then fundamentally, they have done a poor job of making a tree "specialized" and/or balancing all the perks under that attribute to where not just one, but all perks are appealing (or at least a good portion) in the context of one specialization
I hope they address those issues. Then I will like it more.
RestInPieces
New member
Well, it's good that you do, I do this as well, but it's far from fine from a more objective point of view. As long as xp stays as it is, a lot of people will stay unhappy for reasons that common sense can easily explain. It is just the way it is and no amount of forum arguing will solve that.
RipClaw
Well-known member
Funny how differently we define survival and the necessary strategies for it. My goal in order to survive is to create a safe shelter and establish a self-sufficiency to finally build a defense against the horde.
For me the first rule is survival: Don't die
If I constantly enter houses full of zombies I increase the danger of dying. Of course this contradicts the goal to survive but if you have no other choice then you do it. But also only in as far as necessary to secure the survival.
But if you go into every house in sight to kill all the zombies there, it doesn't have much to do with necessity anymore. It is only for the fun of it. And that is the point where we leave the area of immersion. As soon as you have established a self-sufficiency there would be no reason to go into POIs anymore to survive.
I don't mind people going into POIs and killing zombies if they enjoy it but you shouldn't sell it as a survival strategy alone.
A16 supported me much better in my organic gameplay than the A17 does. I've always gotten what I needed at the right time just by following my normal gameplay.
And I only levelled the skills I needed for my playing style.
For example, I levelled construction tools by building my base and horde base from flagstone and then upgrading to cobblestone and later concrete. There was nothing artificial about it because I wanted to do it anyway. My first base is always provisional to bridge the time until I have established my permanent base and I adjust my horde bases to the expected strength of the horde or to try something out. In the course of Alpha 16 I probably built 10 different horde bases and 4 different bases for working. And I rarely restart.
I levelled the sniper because I used it in a lot of horde nights but I never levelled the pistol because I didn't use it.
A17 feels more natural to you because it supports your playing style better than mine, for example. I adapt to it but what is natural for you is artificial for me.
That's what I did in Alpha 16, but in Alpha 17 it's not so easy for my playing style in the early game. But in the later course of the game this changes.
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Roland
Community Moderator
QFT
Also the reason the developers decided to change things the way they did. To them the current progression fits their play style better and they don't want to design something that, to them, feels artificial. Unfortunately, it has been a polarizing change for the community.
fragtzack
New member
Very well said. LBD wasn't perfect, either is the current system. I prefer the current perk system also..
To your point about going back, also agree.
TFP would be making a huge mistake going back to a LBD system because the amount of man hours required. Maybe spending all those man hours in a17 moving to a perk system was a mistake, LBD wasn't that bad. However, perk system is done now. Bottomline is the game has more pressing needs hashing the progression system over and over. Fine tune it, don't re do it.
To me it sounded like you described exactly the same method katarynn used (quote:"When deciding what to do for the day, I think about my food supplies, the state of my base, the amount of mats I have.... the things I NEED to survive and thrive."). So, where does she define survival differently than you?
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AtomicUs5000
New member
I'll show you 30K.
Kage's Video Stats:
[table=width: 600, class: grid, align: left]
[tr]
[td]--- A16 Month #1 ---[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]--- A17 Month #1 ---[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Videos[/td]
[td]31[/td]
[td]Videos[/td]
[td]40[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Max Views[/td]
[td]199K[/td]
[td]Max Views[/td]
[td]87K[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total Views[/td]
[td]1124K[/td]
[td]Total Views[/td]
[td]960K[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]AVG[/td]
[td]36.26K[/td]
[td]AVG[/td]
[td]24K[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]--- A16 Month #2 ---[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]--- A17 Month #2 ---[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Videos[/td]
[td]32[/td]
[td]Videos[/td]
[td]39[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Max Views[/td]
[td]142K[/td]
[td]Max Views[/td]
[td]49K[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total Views[/td]
[td]1145K[/td]
[td]Total Views[/td]
[td]606K[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]AVG[/td]
[td]35.78K[/td]
[td]AVG[/td]
[td]15.54K[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]--- A16 Month #3 ---[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]--- A17 Month #3 ---[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Videos[/td]
[td]27[/td]
[td]Videos[/td]
[td]41[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Max Views[/td]
[td]84K[/td]
[td]Max Views[/td]
[td]22K[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]Total Views[/td]
[td]596K[/td]
[td]Total Views[/td]
[td]400K[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]AVG[/td]
[td]22K[/td]
[td]AVG[/td]
[td]9.76K[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]--- A16 3 Month Period Total ---[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]--- A17 3 Month Period Total ---[/td]
[td][/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3mo. Videos[/td]
[td]90[/td]
[td]3mo. Videos[/td]
[td]120[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3mo. Max Views[/td]
[td]199K[/td]
[td]3mo. Max Views[/td]
[td]87K[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3mo. Total Views[/td]
[td]2865K[/td]
[td]3mo. Total Views[/td]
[td]1966K[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]3mo. AVG[/td]
[td]31.83K[/td]
[td]3mo. AVG[/td]
[td]16.38K[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]
I would also like to point out that there have been around 10 videos of A16 beyond the 3 months with over 30K views. 2 of those over 70K, and of those 2, one of them was a whopping whole year later.
A17... max views since the 3 months period... 9K
"You cant compare a videos views that has been out for 16 months with one that's been out for 1 month"
Yes I can, because they should be equivalent being that you have gained 50K subscribers in between these Alpha dates. So, the extra views you get from this point forward on A17 videos cancel out.
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Ghostlight
New member
My main issue with the new perk system is not the loss of LBD, though I do indeed lament that. For me the problem is that the perks give the player the ability to craft almost every item in the game at the same level, every single play-through. With items like the weapons and vehicles (that used to require books and parts and RNG) this is a major problem as the game has lost all replayability and variety. The more the player restarts A17, the more this problem will become apparent to them. Same things, same level, every time. All play-throughs become the same bland thing.
How would you solve this problem with a re-do?
Kage848
Stream Team
Listen if you want to manipulate the numbers to fit your narrative then by all means do so if it helps you sleep at night.
Bottom line is your taking videos that have been out for 15 months and comparing them with videos that have been out for less than a month.
Also sub count means next to nothing on YouTube. I don't get subs just for 7 days to die. I just had a huge sub increase in Aug of last yea, my biggest one ever, and it was for Mist Survival. And to this day Mist is getting more views than anything so lots of those new subs are here for Mist.
Just one more fact to prove sub numbers are not a huge deal, most of my views are from non subs anyways.
Also, lol. Alpha 16 I was one of 3 lucky people in the stream team, this year there was over 100.
Again , first 3 days if each videos from alpha 16 and 17 were equal numbers 3 months after release. We are going around in circles here though so in done with this.
Have a great day
RipClaw
Well-known member
The difference is that I doubt the basic assumption that running around and killing zombies is or should be part of survival.
Zombies are supposed to be a threat. If you want to survive you normally avoid threats as much as possible.
However, katarynna has written:
This means that katarynna exposes himself to more danger by looting POIs than would be necessary for survival because the materials could also be obtained in a more harmless way.
In earlier Alphas my first goal was always to establish a temporary base and to build a forge to make iron tools. This helped me to collect resources better. I also started planting a garden as early as possible to create self-sufficiency with food.
Then I turned to building a permanent work base and a horde base. Exactly this activity allowed me to level Construction Tools in A16. That's why it felt natural to me because I did it anyway.
To make a forge you needed two short iron pipes, leather/animal hide, stone and clay in A15 and A16. To get all this I wouldn't even have had to visit a single POI. The iron pipes can be found in garbage bags, the leather you get from animals and the stones and clay you can mine with stone tools.
In A17 the way is different. Up to level 20 you can't build iron tools and before level 10 you can't build forges. In the early game you level best by killing zombies and most zombies can be found in POIs.
Apparently zombies are killed and looting POIs is something katarynn likes to do and therefore feels more natural to him. I, on the other hand, have to deviate from my usual procedure at the beginning and that's why it feels artificial to me.
I don't mind visiting POIs and killing zombies because it's fun. I do it myself, but I just don't see it as part of survival because I'm exposed to the danger of death, which for me is in the contradiction to survive.
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Roland
Community Moderator
This is only true if the player chooses to play each time exactly the same way. You have figured out what you believe to be the optimal path for you and have decided you must follow that same path every playthrough. Not everyone plays that way.
Replay value will vary for different individuals.
OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
I'd amend Ghostlights concern slightly for myself. It's true that in prior versions, how a player chose to play would make a great deal of difference in how they geared up, but there was the added element of RNG as well. I might always want to use a sniper rifle, but I might not always immediately find one (going back a few Alphas now) or all the parts for one as in more immediately prior Alphas.
While it's way off topic for this thread, where the crafting comes in to a concern, is that the ability to craft all these guns (coupled with an inability to find one more than 1 or 2 "quality" levels higher than base now), reduces the incentive to go on the loot hunt. Not only do I know that I'm very unlikely to find a Q6 Sniper Rifle, but I know also that if I just keep leveling up, I'll soon be able to make one.
Anyway, quite off topic, so to throw my 2 cents into the pile for something on the topic, I think all of the following have been factors in lower stream numbers (if that is indeed the case):
* Long delay between A16 and A17.
* Current state of RWG.
* Volume of change in A17, which is taking time for the community to digest.
Since I've never watched streaming myself (not really my thing), that's probably about the best I could come up with for the reasons for any drop.
Sam_Neill
New member
Its not really like that, its more 50/50 percent, even if you consider latest steam reviews. Mixed means: mixed. There are people who like the recent changes and some dont.
My personal opinion: I do like A17 and all the stuff we got. A16 was great too, otherwise we wouldnt have played that. Is there much stuff to do ? Yes, most certainly, but i want to say that i feel its the right direction the game goes.
- - - Updated - - -
THIS, so much this, people learned to beat the game and now they feel uncomfortable if they have to think out of the box (again)!
Instead like playing each Alpha as a whole new game again people tend to do what always worked and then (might) complain.
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