pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
People still do that instead of just turning the blood moon off in the options? Why?
PC Correct me if I'm wrong...
- Thread starter Seronys
- Start date
Kage848
Stream Team
Is it the best way to deal with then? Depends on what you want from the game. If you want to survive at all costs as easily as possible then yea maybe it is.
But I dont think that's why most people play or are looking for from the game. I think we are all here for fun right? If it's not fun, dont do it. I'd rather run away on foot during a base breach than ride away in a bike. More fun more excitement.
RipClaw
Well-known member
There are several possible explanations.
On a server you can't deactivate the blood moon if you don't run the server. You can log out before the horde but if no other player is logged in the time does not continue.
It may also be that the player doesn't know at all that you can deactivate the blood moon. The option was introduced with 17.2 as far as I know and not all players always read the release notes.
And it can also be that the player only wants to skip one horde but then do the next one. At the moment the game reacts a bit strange when you change the blood moon settings. Then the days when the horde comes can shift.
RestInPieces
New member
Got to find a way to prevent people from going to the toilet during the horde night!
@the OP: Agree that vehicles trivialize the game in their current state, since there is no risk involved and the player has abundant gas.
Fun means nothing without the proper context (e.g. x is fun for me), because fun can be everything. Obviously people may want different things out of the game and obviously there are many which consider surviving = fun - it is one of the game's advertised features after all.
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OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
Well, that would require closing off another...err, opening that would allow players to avoid the Horde.
Which is why I hope the Pimps don't even bother trying to stop people avoiding the Horde, I mean, quite apart from the impossibility of their succeeding anyway, why try? After all, if a player wants to skip the Horde, then more power to 'em. It only affects them.
RestInPieces
New member
Technology is not there yet!
Oz you know my take on this. Players being able to stop playing for whatever reason doesn't mean TFP should say "♥♥♥♥ it, there is no point in balancing anything".
There is already an option that disables horde night and if some people choose it and then still skip it by logging out, using creative mode or whatever means, that's on them, but what we should be concerned about are people who actually want to play the game and enjoy a balanced vehicle option with its own pros and cons, the urgency of having to fortify and the inevitability of a zombie threat.
Khulkhuum
New member
Instead of looking for ways to make avoiding the horde, introduce new ways to make the horde fun to not skip. To some extent it can be outrun, skipped, etc. and there will sometimes be situations where each and every one of us would prefer to skip the horde. From other standpoint, you know when it comes (unless configured so that you don't know exactly, yet it's mostly known), so you can prepare or not. And the price you pay for not fighting isn't even that big.
Lanadon Conners
New member
I am currently trying a new version of the game that has the Blood Moon turned off BUT the Difficulty level is TWO levels higher than I normally test A17.4 I call it "The Walking Dead"
Yes there is NO urgency to prepare for the Horde but even normal Zeds I used to casually ignore now are damn near deadly and even the Vultures are a serious threat. The increase in numbers, toughness and deadliness have made the first few days of this test version pretty intense and my little pathetic wood cabin is a matchbox that has nearly become my coffin a few times just from wandering Zeds, let alone a Horde.
Moral of the Story: Give players lots of selections and let them create a version of the game that suits them instead of trying to get the Devs to limit player choices.
Yes there is NO urgency to prepare for the Horde but even normal Zeds I used to casually ignore now are damn near deadly and even the Vultures are a serious threat. The increase in numbers, toughness and deadliness have made the first few days of this test version pretty intense and my little pathetic wood cabin is a matchbox that has nearly become my coffin a few times just from wandering Zeds, let alone a Horde.
Moral of the Story: Give players lots of selections and let them create a version of the game that suits them instead of trying to get the Devs to limit player choices.
OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
I don't see the point.
The player can still eliminate Hordes in the In-Game menu option.
The player can still edit them out (effectively) in the XML's.
The player can hop on a vehicle and outpace them.
The player can load up on coffee and do the same.
The player can go into fly mode and just hover above the Horde (in SP, or with appropriate MP privileges).
The player can logout on an MP server and avoid them that way.
It adds more work to TFP's workload, without actually solving anything really so far as I can see.
The player can still eliminate Hordes in the In-Game menu option.
The player can still edit them out (effectively) in the XML's.
The player can hop on a vehicle and outpace them.
The player can load up on coffee and do the same.
The player can go into fly mode and just hover above the Horde (in SP, or with appropriate MP privileges).
The player can logout on an MP server and avoid them that way.
It adds more work to TFP's workload, without actually solving anything really so far as I can see.
OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
Ayup, and I know this discussion has been had before. We're on different sides of it, but I can entirely respect your position on it though. I do get the point you're making, but I still doubt it worth the Pimps time to try and "fix" vehicles, them being just one of many ways for the player to skip a Horde, when there's so much else they could spend their time on.
RestInPieces
New member
Root motion is apparently bugged atm so nightmare speed zombies will be much faster in A18. Hopefully faster than the player. MM also talked about vehicles/gas a bit but I don't know what they intend to do. I think that needing light to have a chance to survive (only a bit) does sound interesting.
Why can zombies attack since you can just press alt-f4 before they attack you? Why are there even any zombies since players can just turn them off? What's up with the nihilism lately man?
OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
Hopefully not general nihilism anyway ;-)Why can zombies attack since you can just press alt-f4 before they attack you? Why are there even any zombies since players can just turn them off? What's up with the nihilism lately man?
But yeah, on this particular subject, I admit, I just don't see the point.
Keep in mind, it all costs developer time, and there's a finite amount of that to go around, so coding this in, means something else doesn't get done. Moreover, I have a strong "player responsibility" streak in me too, meaning that I think it's up to the player, ultimately, to constrain their playstyle to maximise their enjoyment by not employing strategies which they could use, but would reduce their enjoyment if they did use.
Dimpy
New member
Same reason they would get rid of a duplication bug or redo an OP perk. It messes with the balance of the game. It's not that players are incapable of limiting themselves to particular playstyles or avoiding overpowered items, but to do so requires us to fully acknowledge that it's a mistake, and that at least takes me out of the game. Not that simulation sandboxes aren't fun, but when I play survival mode I'm looking for the game to provide the challenge so I can focus on the solution.
Also, not knowing that it's possible to chicken out at any time during a siege adds to the tension of the game.
AtomicUs5000
New member
Here we go again.
We've thought long and hard about this, and it just isn't possible without TFP doing some major overhaul.
I think we've discussed every possible way of how a player can avoid horde night and listed possible ways to deter each.
Some good mod ideas have been presented, but due to the extensive work involved, it just isn't feasible until the game is out of Alpha. I might give it a shot when A18 comes, but I would prefer not to even try because it would be even more work keeping up with the alpha changes. Not to mention, some of the things requiring work in decompiled code now, might not require it later as improvements are made in what is available to be modded via xpath.
We've thought long and hard about this, and it just isn't possible without TFP doing some major overhaul.
I think we've discussed every possible way of how a player can avoid horde night and listed possible ways to deter each.
Some good mod ideas have been presented, but due to the extensive work involved, it just isn't feasible until the game is out of Alpha. I might give it a shot when A18 comes, but I would prefer not to even try because it would be even more work keeping up with the alpha changes. Not to mention, some of the things requiring work in decompiled code now, might not require it later as improvements are made in what is available to be modded via xpath.
AtomicUs5000
New member
The player can still eliminate Hordes in the In-Game menu option.
That doesn't really apply. This applies to when you have horde night active.
The player can still edit them out (effectively) in the XML's.
Why would you do that if you want horde nights?
The player can hop on a vehicle and outpace them.
Yep, this is a problem that needs solving for the game or a mod. It's not the same as using drugs/buffing drinks because gas is not a very valuable resource.
The player can load up on coffee and do the same.
That's fine I think... if it is even good enough with fixed zombie speed. Why not have some possible way to get away? As long as it costs and you have to prepare. The yield of such things should be reduced.
The player can go into fly mode and just hover above the Horde (in SP, or with appropriate MP privileges).
That's cheating, best left for cheaters or people just messing around and not for a serious game.
The player can logout on an MP server and avoid them that way.
Single player, not a problem. Multiplayer, this is a problem that needs solving for the game or a mod. Reward or penalty or both of some kind.
That doesn't really apply. This applies to when you have horde night active.
The player can still edit them out (effectively) in the XML's.
Why would you do that if you want horde nights?
The player can hop on a vehicle and outpace them.
Yep, this is a problem that needs solving for the game or a mod. It's not the same as using drugs/buffing drinks because gas is not a very valuable resource.
The player can load up on coffee and do the same.
That's fine I think... if it is even good enough with fixed zombie speed. Why not have some possible way to get away? As long as it costs and you have to prepare. The yield of such things should be reduced.
The player can go into fly mode and just hover above the Horde (in SP, or with appropriate MP privileges).
That's cheating, best left for cheaters or people just messing around and not for a serious game.
The player can logout on an MP server and avoid them that way.
Single player, not a problem. Multiplayer, this is a problem that needs solving for the game or a mod. Reward or penalty or both of some kind.
OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
A dupe bug is a very different beast to vehicles-as-a-I-beat-da-Hordz!-button. For starters, dupes do affect other players, since the duper becomes more powerful than they'd otherwise be. OP perks are likewise somewhat different to vehicles-as-a-I-beat-da-Hordz!-button because an overpowered perk could break many aspects of game balance, not just this one particular one.
In an ideal, perfect world could you use vehicles in 7 Days To Die to skip a Horde? Meh, probably not.
But the world is neither ideal or perfect, and, as per the point I made in the other thread on this subject (might have to merge these threads, see how the other one progresses), any time the Pimps spend on trying to "fix" vehicles Horde-avoidance capacities, is time they don't spend fixing something else, or introducing some new content, so in a practical world of limited time and money, it doesn't seem worth fixing (to me anyway).
AtomicUs5000
New member
I wouldn't doubt that they extend the distance at which surface zombies can sense you underground on horde nights now that they have occlusion working. We'll see.
OzHawkeye
Community Moderator
1. If it could be done in a way that doesn't impact other vehicle uses, and it was really quick to do, I don't think I'd have any objection at all to the Pimps doing it, but I suspect it wouldn't be a "5 minute fix".
2. Don't muck with mah farmz plz! ;-) Rebalancing farm output just to stop coffee being used to avoid a Horde would seem like a parlous use of precious Dev time.
3. The only way I could see to overcome this would be for MP servers to leave a "player body object" behind for a certain time interval after a player logs out, to give the Horde an object to trigger on and try and reach. This would have some pretty beefy implications for PVP as well, so seems like using a sledgehammer on nails to me.
AtomicUs5000
New member
1. If it could be done in a way that doesn't impact other vehicle uses, and it was really quick to do, I don't think I'd have any objection at all to the Pimps doing it, but I suspect it wouldn't be a "5 minute fix".
Definitely not. I think the answer is zombie bears since normal bears could reach 50mph. Zombie bears on horde night could be made faster than the vehicles. Modded, even this would be a lot of work. I wouldn't want bears to just swipe at vehicles. They would need to be able to knock them over.
2. Don't muck with mah farmz plz! ;-) Rebalancing farm output just to stop coffee being used to avoid a Horde would seem like a parlous use of precious Dev time.
I wasn't really thinking of coffee, but other things. You would still have to use a ton of coffee because the effects aren't very long. It's too bad there aren't any negatives to drinking coffee so much with wellness gone.
3. The only way I could see to overcome this would be for MP servers to leave a "player body object" behind for a certain time interval after a player logs out, to give the Horde an object to trigger on and try and reach. This would have some pretty beefy implications for PVP as well, so seems like using a sledgehammer on nails to me.
Right... so, I'm leaning more towards reward. It wouldn't take much to poll the online players... it does already obviously. I'm also thinking maybe having a radio transmitter block. If you stay on the entire duration and you protect your transmitter, an air drop full of good stuff and ammo arrives immediately after.
The leaving some target behind thing might be a possibility some day, though... even though it seems out of reach at the moment. It depends on how much they plan for bandits, because I read some talk about them doing things even when chunks are out of range. The occlusion added in A18 might be helpful too if it is possible to load a chunk into memory minus all rendering information.
Definitely not. I think the answer is zombie bears since normal bears could reach 50mph. Zombie bears on horde night could be made faster than the vehicles. Modded, even this would be a lot of work. I wouldn't want bears to just swipe at vehicles. They would need to be able to knock them over.
2. Don't muck with mah farmz plz! ;-) Rebalancing farm output just to stop coffee being used to avoid a Horde would seem like a parlous use of precious Dev time.
I wasn't really thinking of coffee, but other things. You would still have to use a ton of coffee because the effects aren't very long. It's too bad there aren't any negatives to drinking coffee so much with wellness gone.
3. The only way I could see to overcome this would be for MP servers to leave a "player body object" behind for a certain time interval after a player logs out, to give the Horde an object to trigger on and try and reach. This would have some pretty beefy implications for PVP as well, so seems like using a sledgehammer on nails to me.
Right... so, I'm leaning more towards reward. It wouldn't take much to poll the online players... it does already obviously. I'm also thinking maybe having a radio transmitter block. If you stay on the entire duration and you protect your transmitter, an air drop full of good stuff and ammo arrives immediately after.
The leaving some target behind thing might be a possibility some day, though... even though it seems out of reach at the moment. It depends on how much they plan for bandits, because I read some talk about them doing things even when chunks are out of range. The occlusion added in A18 might be helpful too if it is possible to load a chunk into memory minus all rendering information.