PC Can we please stop tripple gating Things?

Demonstrably, not the same. You can spec into a forge with your very first point into the game. You cannot spec into AP arrows, you are at the mercy of RNG. I found a schematic that says I can now craft exploding arrows. ::Troll face:: The ingredients to make them require yet another schematic.
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you can't spec into AP bullets either. the damage from an exploding arrow can easily kill a group of zombies while an AP bullet can kill 1 and it can only kill more if you have them in a straight line plus have gone full spec into machine gunner and fortitude attributes.

maybe they made the exploding arrow more difficult to get because of the kind of damage it can do to a large group of zombies compared to other types of ammo?

you are trying to compare large group damage type of ammo to single type which is kinda ridiculous.

 
*giggle*
But yeah, crafting steel is kinda too easy lol you don't need a perk for it. Bookstores and traders are your friends. I found a forge schematic, advanced bellows (both the thing itself and the schematic), and a crucible schematic. I was able to craft steel from then on out.
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I can do you one better, in one of my earlier dead is dead games I found a made crucible in a working stiffs box on day 2. Not that it does me much good that early, but I can at least produce some steel now, for mod creation and for later.

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Again how is that dumb? Every schematic works that way. You can now make first aid bandages, but you haven't found yucca or the desert or yucca seeds.
You can make iron tools but you can't make a forge yet

You can make ammo but you can't make a forge yet, etc.

Yes Steel tools are harder but there are lots of ways to get the parts such as focusing on trader quests and doing their missions which often give them rewards, leveling your trader skills to get more choices for rewards, better items in secret stash, etc.

The m60 example you keep using does indeed seem to be disproportionate so hopefully TFP separate it into its own parts, but again your complaining that on Day 31 you haven't found enough parts to make every end game item. If it takes you to day 100 to get all the parts you need to make every end game item that isn't a bad thing.
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I hope they don't give into the whining I like how it is now, you want stuff? go out and loot for it. Can't just level and throw perk points around anymore and build top end gear, doesn't work that way anymore and I for one am glad it doesn't.

 
Could someone give examples of where I get steel parts. I can make steel tools but I can't seem to find the parts. I think someone mentioned traders quests but I have never had choice of them. I am only getting level 1 or 2 tier quests so maybe that is it. I also think it said you could get the parts from scrapping steel tools but I have also never found any of those. Do you have to have a certain level of lucky looter to find steel tools? Anyway if someone could explain where to find parts that would be great. I already have level 6 iron pickaxe and an auger (am not overly fond of using auger myself) and would like to make myself a nice steel pickaxe.

Thank You.

 
I have more steel parts then I need atm. Day 50. Looted so many steel tools and scrapped em.

Found a crucible on like day 20ish? found another a few days later.

Found the recipe for exploding arrows as well in the early days even though i dont use em.

I see crucibles at the traders often and lots of steel.

The rng isnt actually rng tbh. It is sorted by gamestage I believe so appropriate loot will be found and not end game day 1

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Could someone give examples of where I get steel parts. I can make steel tools but I can't seem to find the parts. I think someone mentioned traders quests but I have never had choice of them. I am only getting level 1 or 2 tier quests so maybe that is it. I also think it said you could get the parts from scrapping steel tools but I have also never found any of those. Do you have to have a certain level of lucky looter to find steel tools? Anyway if someone could explain where to find parts that would be great. I already have level 6 iron pickaxe and an auger (am not overly fond of using auger myself) and would like to make myself a nice steel pickaxe.Thank You.
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You scrap steel tools to get parts. You start finding them eventually. I found my first steel tool like day 15 or 20? not sure tbh but around that time. I play on 120 min days though so my gamestage is higher on day 15 then default time.

 
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End game equipment/armor SHOULD be REALLY hard to make/acquire, or it loses far to much appeal and is over powered drastically.

Consider what it would be like if someone was able to do this day one because they found the recipe on an MP.

They would immediately be able to destroy everyone else who hasn't.

Game balance is a thing to consider...

 
Could someone give examples of where I get steel parts. I can make steel tools but I can't seem to find the parts. I think someone mentioned traders quests but I have never had choice of them. I am only getting level 1 or 2 tier quests so maybe that is it. I also think it said you could get the parts from scrapping steel tools but I have also never found any of those. Do you have to have a certain level of lucky looter to find steel tools? Anyway if someone could explain where to find parts that would be great. I already have level 6 iron pickaxe and an auger (am not overly fond of using auger myself) and would like to make myself a nice steel pickaxe.Thank You.
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Get the parts from scrapping the item, so for example, scrap a crappy Auger, get 3 Auger parts, once you have 15 Auger parts you can make your own (and with proper perks, that could be a tier 6 auger now).

There's no threshold I know below which you can't get steel tools (or other items) in loot, it's just RNG.

 
There's no threshold I know below which you can't get steel tools (or other items) in loot, it's just RNG.
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Yes. And in this aspect I empathize with the original poster...waiting on RNG sometimes sucks.

In A18 in have literally died (to infection) due to extended battles with crappy RNG rolls.

I’m still looking for decent higher tier steel knuckles or enough crappy ones to scrap so I can craft higher tier knuckles. (And this for a weapon that will do considerably less effective damage than nearly any firearm). But I enjoy the brawler play style.

 
There's no threshold I know below which you can't get steel tools (or other items) in loot, it's just RNG.
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Could have sworn madmole said loot was based on gamestage but i could be remembering wrong.

 
Could have sworn madmole said loot was based on gamestage but i could be remembering wrong.
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It is based on gamestage afaik but that does not mean that steel tools are ever at 0 percent. You are more likely to find more and better steel tools later but it is still possible to locate a tier 6 steel ax on day one. Just really unlikely.

As to the OP, the level pace is slower now and in a better spot. That you cannot use several schematics that you find because you do not have the rest of the infrastructure to utilize it is part of the challenge. I do not see anything wrong with the fact you need more than one schematic to fully set up infinite supplies of end game content. Now progression really matters whereas previous versions had me at end game content before the second horde.

While I think there are several improvements that should be made to the current system, progression is pretty damn solid. Even though RNG Jesus hates giving me anything related to vehicles at all :D

 
The OP is being a jerk, but I think the point is valid.

You don't use a Tazas stone axe in the recipe for a Steel Fireaxe.

Requiring that my explosive arrows be built form an AP arrow is...silly. Just make them from a normal non-steel arrow? They don't even need a tip really.

 
*giggle*
But yeah, crafting steel is kinda too easy lol you don't need a perk for it. Bookstores and traders are your friends. I found a forge schematic, advanced bellows (both the thing itself and the schematic), and a crucible schematic. I was able to craft steel from then on out.
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Same situation here--was able to craft steel even though I didn't even need it around day 10-12.

Then we have people like CoolJ who aren't as blessed by RNGesus :upset:

 
I could be wrong, but the amount of feathers you can find is a big road block to bows. I found an X-bow and it can take care of a few zombies easily... but so can a wooden club.

To me, bows don't seem viable in A18. Even the explosive arrows are underwhelming vs Grenades.

Grenades can instantly kill anything with little damage to a strong fort (Goodbye Demolisher threat!) if used correctly.

 
I really like the way all this sounds in A18, finding or scraping individual parts sound interesting and finding useful schematics sounds cool too. I will still play A17 for a long while but all of this sounds exiting to me.

The level up to do almost everything is a little too easy, I am in day 32 on A17 and I am already mass producing level 6 augers to sell to traders.

I too am impatient at times and sometimes I prefer instant gratification but I have been playing RPGs since Ultima 3 so I am used to going into large fights over and over and over again just to get that level six spell, I guess they call that grinding now days.

 
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IIRC the DEVs said that books were replaced because they didn't want to have RNG effects for important items.

But the current meta is: don't perk into crafting skills, loot them. I think it's mainly caused by the slow leveling pace so it's RNG again.

 
IIRC the DEVs said that books were replaced because they didn't want to have RNG effects for important items.But the current meta is: don't perk into crafting skills, loot them. I think it's mainly caused by the slow leveling pace so it's RNG again.
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I think a18 is more RNG than ever, since looting everything is just the easiest option.

 
I find A18 a hell of a lot more interesting than the instant-end-game game-play that was featured in A17.

I play this game to survive. To build a camp, scavenge for supplies and adapt my play-style to my current play-through.

I don't want everything at once. I like that there's walls that slow down my progression, because it forces me to change how I play the game.

If I was given every schematic, in a linear non-gated fashion, I'd get bored before the first or second horde night, with a fully functioning horde-base.

 
I find A18 a hell of a lot more interesting than the instant-end-game game-play that was featured in A17.
I play this game to survive. To build a camp, scavenge for supplies and adapt my play-style to my current play-through.

I don't want everything at once. I like that there's walls that slow down my progression, because it forces me to change how I play the game.

If I was given every schematic, in a linear non-gated fashion, I'd get bored before the first or second horde night, with a fully functioning horde-base.
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I feel the opposite. Every lets play I watch, they are already using fireguns since day 1. In a18 endgame is much sooner than ever. Before a18 you had to level, invest in perks, gather, craft ammo, or before a17 even find gun parts.

Now just loot 4 houses and you have fireguns and ammo for the next 4.

 
Now just loot 4 houses and you have fireguns and ammo for the next 4.
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I was talking about the schematics and perk-progression.

But, in all honesty - If it was up to me, the amount of weapons in loot caches would be decreased to about 5% of the current. There's too much fire power, too early. I can agree on that.

 
I feel the opposite. Every lets play I watch, they are already using fireguns since day 1. In a18 endgame is much sooner than ever. Before a18 you had to level, invest in perks, gather, craft ammo, or before a17 even find gun parts.Now just loot 4 houses and you have fireguns and ammo for the next 4.
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Ehh, difference is the guns and ammo you get on day 1 wont last you next 4 horde nights. Wait untill the gamestage gets higher at later horde nights, you'll quickly realize you need better weaponry and loads more ammo. Horde nights for me started lasting non-stop until 4am, and I was fighting until 6/7am sometimes. I'm a good shot, but even being careful I still go through 800 - 1000 round of ammo (my day 39 horde, i started doing nightly hordes in last build, I went through 600 rounds of AP 7.62 and 900 or so reg 7.62 and 100 shotgun shells); if I carried it on, I needed better guns/mods/more ammo. A17 I would never see my ammo deplete, and be setup for whatever on insane on highest spawn rate possible by day 14. Hell, I'd try to make it fun by setting horde nights to every night and 30 min 24 cycles and refuse to leave my base - never had an issue. Pre day 7 gun loot could use a nerf, but I definitely don't see the end game getting here any sooner.

 
I don't want everything at once. I like that there's walls that slow down my progression, because it forces me to change how I play the game.

If I was given every schematic, in a linear non-gated fashion, I'd get bored before the first or second horde night, with a fully functioning horde-base.
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True. I also enjoy the slower pace. There's just the point about base building. It's getting a bit tricky if you have bad luck and still have to rely on reinforced concrete and metal spikes after some BMs - most notably on higher difficulties.

To avoid this I've to perk into int if I want it or not (and I don't want it, I just want that damm crucible :) ). IMO this multiple gates are just a bummer.

 
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